Curse

Jane Loves You · Dec 23, 2006, 03:12 PM // 15:12

If you think that it is impossible to get into high level GvG, then how come there are new GvGer's coming into the picture everyday. It's a long process, getting into high lvl gvg, and you have to either know people or be a damn good player to get there faster.

JR · Dec 23, 2006, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jane Loves You

If you think that it is impossible to get into high level GvG, then how come there are new GvGer's coming into the picture everyday.

Quoted for truth. The recent Winter season play-offs showed that new guilds that put in the effort to improve and play competitively have as much of a chance as anyone else. The best example of this was QQ vs aNc - how many people could possibly have predicted the outcome of that?

dansamy · Dec 23, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

aNc wasn't a "new" guild from what I understand. They've existed for a long while and have improved over time.

Legendary Shiz · Dec 23, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Quoted for truth. The recent Winter season play-offs showed that new guilds that put in the effort to improve and play competitively have as much of a chance as anyone else. The best example of this was QQ vs aNc - how many people could possibly have predicted the outcome of that?

I heard from everybody that aNc was a bunch of old school players.

JR · Dec 23, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansamy

aNc wasn't a "new" guild from what I understand. They've existed for a long while and have improved over time.

Coming from a position where you have never participated in play-offs or reached top 20 on the ladder, to taking down the favorite guild in the tournament... I'd say that was a pretty big step, and evidence that the top of the ladder isn't quite as stagnant as people thought. Guilds that are less experienced in competitive play can still push it.

dansamy · Dec 23, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Fair enough, but truthfully, QQ wasn't all that experienced themselves in tournament play. IIRC, they've only played in one prior tournament themselves. It's not like it was aNc vs EviL or WM.

JR · Dec 23, 2006, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansamy

Fair enough, but truthfully, QQ wasn't all that experienced themselves in tournament play. IIRC, they've only played in one prior tournament themselves. It's not like it was aNc vs EviL or WM.

QQ consists of members from largely Char and iGi. They have played in one play-off event as QQ before, and both previous guilds also had tournament activity.

This is all a little trivial though, aNc was nothing before this tournament, you can't really argue that.

dansamy · Dec 24, 2006, 12:08 AM // 00:08

They certainly weren't a blip on anyone's radar, that's true. However, they didn't come out of nowhere. They've improved over time as a guild and were probably severly underrated. Certainly a 62.5% win percentage isn't anything to write home about, compared to QQ's 90+%.

warriorsmiley · Dec 24, 2006, 05:12 AM // 05:12

I remember when I first broke into pvp. I joined a guild back in the novemeber after the release(The cult of the unseen hand [hANd]). We werent that good even ran builds that made no sense but we had fun we learned we copied builds but most importantly we all learned to play together (atleast the core of us, we wound up finishing like in the high 900's. Guild went very inactive so we merged with Carwasherz[Cwz] and thats when the huge HA phase hit . We all hit high ranks while it lasted but leader left soon after the guild feel apart so what was left of us started a new guild(We got our accounts on[eBay]) we picked up some members of another guild that was breaking up. When we started GVG'ing the highest we hit was in the 220's but we finished around 340. We got tired of the name made a new guild(Deicidal Tendencies [deus]) we would normally finish off around 220-250. Not this season but the season before we finally finished in the top 100's getting as high as rank 57.Like someone posted there are many places to put yourself out there on threads and prove yourself. If im not mistaken we picked up 3 people from the recruitement thread on here (2 were great other was a bomb). We gave them guest invites did some gvg's with them and sure enough they proved there worth and they were a huge part of our push to the top 100. While in that huge HA phase I myself made a network of friends that were in top 100 guilds at the time and was often asked to guest with them proving my weight and having open memberships into the guild if I wanted to join

Sure you have those tops guilds that are that are really picky on who they pick but you have to understand they didnt get to the top by picking up just any and everybody and most certainly wont stay there if they did. As a person you yourself have to go out there and network with people like in HA. Remember alot of the top guilds were big HA guilds before they started to gvg. As a guild you have to be patient and understand a push to the top isnt as easy as it may seem. It takes practice and the skill's will develop over time.

Bloodied Blade · Dec 24, 2006, 07:13 AM // 07:13

My guild does something similar to what the OP describes...We have a "core" group of gvg players...the guys in the guild who enjoy gvg and are excelling at it. But, we will take anyone from our guild with a few caveats- They need ts/vent (so they can hear tactics called), and they need to have at least some idea of what they're doing.

I know it's frustrating at first to be able to get your guild to let you onto their gvg team, but it will happen eventually.

sage tank · Dec 24, 2006, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

Camp in HA hoping for a goog guild team to pick you up, then you can prove yourself worthy, you should probably practice in RA a lot. Monks are particullar aftersought.

Lol funny, thats how I got into my guild

Winstar · Dec 24, 2006, 07:54 AM // 07:54

There are lots of guilds that aren't in the top 100 range that still try to be competitive (play decent builds are pretty well organized) while having a more open philosophy towards who gets to play. Trying to get into such a guild will at least open the possibility of gaining experience and getting to meet other players forge connections and such. Now the cost of this approach is inconsistency. For us there is generally a solid core of people who over time have played together and know their spots, but we aren't always getting to play together. There are lots of new people coming in and out of the guild as well and many of those people are rotating into the GvG team on any given night. This of course means that we're going to get inconsistent results. Some nights we a competitive team, other nights...not as much. But its part of the guilds philosophy atm where we want people to have the chance to GvG. We generally have sign-ups and if you want to play a spot we try to encourage testing (sigh that this needs to be done...) and go over the role that you are supposed to play etc etc. Anyway....if you are looking to get experience try and get into someplace like that and move on up if you're looking for more.

Akhilleus · Dec 24, 2006, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grolubao

Hi all!
This is a subject that has been bugging me since I play Guild Wars, and I would like it to be discussed with you.

Apart from all the PvE vs PvP debates, one knows that the best part of GW in terms of PvP is the GvG. It's basically the type of the game that has more strategy and more communication between it's members.

The thing I keep bumping is guilds that normally play every time with the same people. I can understand that from the point of view purely competition wise, this is the correct thing to do, but hey no footbal players likes to go to the bench all the time, alas not even go to the trains.

So if you don't have much experience in GvG you're stuck without that part of GW. People have turned so much competitive that they don't want to risk a place for a newcomer to show it's value.

What's your opinion on this?

there is no existing way (and shouldnt be) for the game developers to fix this issue.
the whole idea of elitism in a certain area is based upon a standard of acceptance placed upon one group (outsiders) by another group of players (insiders) for the sake of assurance of compatibility.
example: i am not rank 12, am i thus going to bitch that i should be allowed into a rank-12 only group, just for the sake of eliminating elitism? no.
would one of those same r12 players expect to be lunged to the top echelons of the traders networks without spending 10 secconds marketing? no.
the fact of the matter is, castes of people create certain qualifications by which they descriminate outsides, in order to organize, categorize, and expediate matters that they deal with.
do i think elitism is necissarily a good idea? no.
do i realize its necessity? yes.

stueyman2099 · Dec 24, 2006, 09:29 AM // 09:29

My trip to where I am was made in hand with most of the same people. I've known Squidget since October '05 and other ppl in NUKE like Ian since months before that, Others I've met more recently, within the last 2~3 months. Point is that alot of people learn as a group and climb their way up the ladder as a team, lose as a team, and win as a team.

red orc · Dec 24, 2006, 10:47 AM // 10:47

I'm not sure this guy is talking about getting to the top 100.
If you start GVG (like me) and your guild has capable players, it is reasonable you will not play. You face several options:
1. Now it is off season, form a group of ppl from your guild and ask to play, they have no reason not to let you, since those are unranked fights.
2. play scrimarage.
3. leave the guild, which is too strong for you, and join some other guild which will let you fight. You dont have to be in the top 100 or top 500. With decent ppl you can learn how to gvg, different build, strategies, arenas, splits. It is better to be in guild that is ranked 1000-3000 and play, vs be in guild ranked 300 and be left out.
4. Leaving the guild will feel alittle left out. Getting into a new guild is quite hard. ANET: must improve this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Play RA several chars, I suggest you start with chars you see in observe mode and improve them for RA. Then play HA. Get a gladiator title, get a hero title. Then guilds that are ranked 700-3000 will invite you. If you're looking for more than you have to really invest, but then you would not post this thread in the first place.

p.s I dont see any elitism here. Just finding the right ppl:
ANET who created a great game called GUILD wars, forgot to provide us the tools for proper GUILD management.

Eonwe · Dec 25, 2006, 05:45 AM // 05:45

A lot of people seem to ask this question or something related to it, and to be honest, I'm not really sure how to answer it. I can however give you my personal experience and how we handle issues related to recruitment to maybe help you better understand things from a team's perspective. I cannot really speak for other 'top' teams and how they deal with such issues though, but I would assume it's similar. I also do not like labeling teams as 'elite', 'top', etc. because I think we both can agree that everyone's views of individual teams and their skill levels can vary greatly, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and use the term while trying to explain things.

To start things off, if you whisper someone in game, asking "Are you recruiting?", "Can I guest/tryout?" or something along those lines, the most you're going to get is either no reply, or a simple no. The reason behind this is is simple. We don't know you, we've never seen you play, so why should we give you a shot at trying out? It may sound mean, but whispering someone in game is just not the way to go about things. In terms of how we recruit, we've never held a tryout, or anything of that sort. When we need a player, we ask people who we have played against in the past, and know are of a high caliber to come guest with us. This is really where the networking thing comes into play I guess, and those who have mentioned it in this thread already are absolutely correct.

Unfortunately I cannot really give any advice on how to go about 'proving' yourself or 'becoming known' within the PvP community. I could imagine how difficult it is if you're just getting involved in the PvP aspect of the game, or purchased the game at a later time than the initial release. I would say just continue practicing, play everyday, work on your skills, etc. Experience is really the main thing, because other things can be taught with practice but you cannot really teach experience.

Also, I think a good ending note would be to mention that above everything else you should enjoy playing with your teammates. There will always be some rage here and there, but being able to not only play to win for yourself but also for your teammates as well is a huge part of the game in my opinion.

just rude · Dec 25, 2006, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grolubao

The thing I keep bumping is guilds that normally play every time with the same people. I can understand that from the point of view purely competition wise, this is the correct thing to do, but hey no footbal players likes to go to the bench all the time, alas not even go to the trains.

So if you don't have much experience in GvG you're stuck without that part of GW. People have turned so much competitive that they don't want to risk a place for a newcomer to show it's value.

What's your opinion on this?

GW rulez states that only 10 members can be on a guild roster. So your analogy to football is relevant, a NFL team is alllowed 53 players, I think. I bet the people on the practice squad wished they were on the main team but, hey, life aint fair.

Everything that people have posted that seems unfair is true. Most of the percieved elitism comes from the fact that we are playing a game. I honestly think casual players think that teams like iQ, WM, eViL, Te, log on for 1 or 2 hours a day and just crush everything because they just own. The highest lvl's of this game take a huge commitment.

I've been trying to make a serious guild for awhile now and it seems that everyone wants in a good guild! What a suprise?!?! There are in fact a very small amount of people who play GW that are actually willing to sacrifice a part of their "real life." In actuality the people that own at GW, consider GW part of their "real life." The arguement "that I have a life", is fully irrelevenant and those people just aren't serious, of course a crisis can come up, but...

a high lvl gvg guild should never take a chance for the stated reasons. I saw the Patriots kicker miss a key field goal and then he kicked it out of bounds with like 2 mins left in the game. Should I start practicing, I mean I did play soccer in HS? Wait GW isn't like that, its just a game!?!?!?

or....

edit:SP

Stupid Shizno · Dec 25, 2006, 07:03 AM // 07:03

What tools did anet forget to put into the game red orc?
you got a roster, a guild status to show the history, a kick/invite option, and a hiarhcy(sp?) of leader/officers/members. what more do you want? i think anet had the idea more of "create a guild with close friends and compete against other guilds" which is what people do. this isnt some orginization where "were rank 20 now, please send an invite to our guild so we may press accept"

Deep Sea Diving · Dec 25, 2006, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by red orc

...Getting into a new guild is quite hard. ANET: must improve this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why should arenanet change that? What are they going to do, implement some form of affermative action into guildwars?

Established players will never have a problem getting into another guild. New players will always have problems getting into a decent pvp guild. You need to start somewhere, and it won't be a quick climb (There are exceptions

).

red orc · Dec 25, 2006, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Let me try to explain:
This is not a 50 ppl game where all know all.
You have around 5000 guild that play gvg. In each say 30 ppl at list => 15000 active gvg ppl.

Getting into the top 50 or top 100 or top 300 (which ever number fits you) will always be based on being known and friends that invite you casue you're very good.
The fact is that most of the player who wish to play gvg do not fit there, they belong to the 300+ (or 500+) - 5000 ranked guilds.
In true there are many who wish to join those guilds.
On the other side those guilds are looking for players.
Right now there is no mechanism that can link the two.
Those guilds are missing players therefore they do not gvg much and the players are without guilds therefore they do not gvg and eventualy loose interest in the game.
I think that those are the exact ppl ANET should be very interested in keeping.
Now let me suggest a simple tool for linking the two. ANET can come with much better tools, cause they have ppl dedicated to the task:
Have a guild board. each guild who is looking for ppl can require certain requirements (profile) from the requested player, and will get a list of the players that fit that are looking for a guild and fit that profile.profile example:
hero rank: 4
glad rank: 2
area: eu
min day per week: 3
characters: ranger / warrior
character builds: rao / steady / yaa
special requirements:
- have played in 1000+ guild before.
- Time of play 9pm UK time
- Sunday 9:00 pm - mandatory

Each player that would like to join a guild, can put his profile and see all guild requirements (no reference to the guild, just the guild rank). He then can respond to each by providing his profile and push "request".

a guild that got several profiles, can choose to guest invite any of the players.

I would also add a gvg profile statistics for each player: a gvg rank (according to the gvg games he played) the number of games he played, ...

Hell, I think this is important, I will start a new thread with it