Curse

Merlins Valor · Jan 21, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

- Good job changing HoH, it will prevent anyone no matter what build from holding for 3 hours cos they have a fool proof build... it will now take some strategy and thinking. I will be very disappointed If it goes back to altar capping

- 10 minutes seems to long for Broken Tower, otherwise its great fun, even though maybe some Aoe skills ( ie. sandstorm) could be nerfed, as it is its way overpowered.

- For the sake of all the ones who like ghost capping maybe Courtyard could be reverted to what it was, this will also limit the benefit of playing an AOE-damage-only build.

- Good job bringing back Burial Mounds

- Good job getting rid of Scarred Earth

- Big Big Big mistake changing Destructive was Glaive from 25% to 5%, who is going to use channeling magic now? And if that 1 skill was overpowered, then what are paragons as a whole?

- Im also very disappointed about the fact that after a crushing majority of people wanting 8v8 back on forums Anet still went and ignored that and made the map changes to accomodate 6v6.

- About people complaining about Ganking in broken tower and wherever, its always been around and always will be.

Overall a good update even though i was expecting newmaps not just new conditions for what we already had.

Merlins Valor

pOmrAkkUn · Jan 21, 2007, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Kill Count
I feel like every teams run "Spike Build" now. Pressure Build won't work well bcos while u degen 1 team the other team just come to join and spike ur target and they stole the Kill point from you.

Nadia Roark · Jan 21, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

My thoughts:

Skill balance: Decent, but frustrating at times. Ritualists got a much needed damage buff and Assasins are also much more useful now. IMO this needed to happen.
I'm surprised the recharge on SF wasn't turned up to 5 seconds, and I was even more surprised that Divert Hexes struck the dev team as needing a (slight) nerf. Thanks for chainging it back though.
The necro/warrior skill balances in relation to the monk skill balances are kinda wiggy. Zergway and hex spam remain largely untouched although the new map mechanics make hex spam slightly less viable, being as its a slower pressure build and isn't likely to rack up the kills on BT versus two decent opponents.
If you don't plan on nerfing zergway at all (which is fine) please change SoA back to its old cast time. As it was SoA was a reasonable counter to heavy melee pressure. Now the pressure has not been diminished per se, but the ability to counter it decently has been. I can't be standing still in front of a steady stance warrior for 1 out of every 6 or 8 seconds. The skill might as well now read "SoA now costs 9...13 energy when fighting zergway."
I'm surprised they altered Lyssa and Dwayna despite their profound disuse; but Avatar of Grenth remains, in my view, slightly overpowered. As a general rule, enchant removal has (until this point) required a sacrifice on the part of the remover; be it energy, a conditional cast, sacrificing health, or poisoning yourself. Avatar of Grenth grossly outstrips all previous methods of enchant removal in terms of general efficiency; and has little or no detrimental effect whatsoever on the caster. For all the complaints people had about OoA back in the day, this is much worse.
Victory Conditions: Mixed feelings. I like the kill count idea on BT--I never liked sitting around at the ramp and waiting as long as possible anyway.
I do not like the fact that you can play flawlessly and lose because a third team has a weak defense. The only way to play BT now is to try and guess which team has the weakest defense and gang up on them.
Murderball is gay. Lose it. 3 Team relic runs are pretty ridiculous; all the matches I've seen have been astonishingly low-scoring, primarily on account of the fact that once you grab the relic, you have 8-12 guys pressuring/bodyblocking your unfortunate toon.
I was under the impression that we'd get new maps. If we can release a flood of new guild halls per expansion, at least one new HA map might not be a bad idea. HA seems to me to have a strictly Tyrian feel to it.
I love that Scarred is gone and that Burial Mounds is back. I would however like to see more 1v1 hack 'n slash type maps: maybe put another one a little later in the rotation. I find myself hoping for Dark Chambers a lot because its the only 1v1 map past Burial Mounds. Scarred was OK in 1v1 but it happened too infrequently to count on.

Overall I thought it'd be a lot worse than it ended up. I still think I'd prefer 8v8, but aside from a few minor complaints about the skill balance and victory conditions we might be on to something. What struck me the most was that prior to the event I had predicted a profound shortage of Monks; but maps like BT and Courtyard actually place a higher premium on skilled monking, since without it you'll just feed points to your enemy. It's also worth noting that the AB style caps--while I'm still less than thrilled with them in their present state-- actually free up some skills for utility, since now we don't have to carry Song and (potentially) Stability.

ASpitefulMind · Jan 21, 2007, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Return of burial mounds: Great! I love this map
Removal of Scarred Earth: Good, You had to do 2x the work for the same fame, and you always faced the second team handicapped. Not cool.
Burial Mounds: 10 min is to long, as im sure youve heard. There should really be at least one altar map. The second one (courtyard) can remain kill count.
Other Changes:
Altar Map to Kill Count: This becomes a murderfest, and with 2 people hacking on the same person, how do you decide who gets the kill? the one who does the most damage? damage isn't necessarily what kills a target. E-Denial may do it too. Your now favoring spike builds because they will always get the kill count. Pressure builds can barely get past these maps.
Random HoH : Very nice change. No more builds to just sit there and hold altar. Forces people to know and use strat. Very very nice.
New Chest Rewards: Awesome returning the flame of balthazar, nice for those of us who are UaX, being able to collect faction outside our meter.

Diage · Jan 21, 2007, 08:37 PM // 20:37

The other day i played in HoH several times, i took note of two things that really angered me, first off.. the way a kill is counted seems to not work, we would take down several people who had suffered from degen or aoe jus to find that the other team got our point, also, murderball, i cant think of a worste game, the holder will win almost everytime. The stairs to the two oposing teams is skinny and small and very easy to bodyblock and prevent movement, where as the holders have a open and broad stairway where bodyblocking good players is extremely difficult, also, the holders get 1 free point were a decent team who is currently holding can easily prevent any further points form being scored. Its a horrible game and im enraged that it destroyed my chances at winning everytime we went against it. I would not mind one of the rotations actualy being holding the alter, perhaps mix it a lil bit.

Stixxx · Jan 21, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Adding of Burial Mounds: I loved it before, and im loving it still.

Removing Scarred: Thank you!!! I hated that map so bad...

I like the changes made to the win conditions on altar map. Gives a fresh view on how it can be done differently!

nivelis · Jan 21, 2007, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Few more comments after all test weekend:

- Obelisk on Burial Mounds is not usable now. Increase damage and its range because 90% times I play teams only attack each other in same place or near base - no one runs with flag or try to keep flag on obelisk - just decoration now...
- I think good idea to keep Ha and way to HoH ballanced is to keep old Broken Tower with altar cap system
- New Courtyard is awesome and this map fits great kill count system. Reduce time to 7-8min and it will be perfect new upgrade!
-New HoH is great except relic run option. It needs redesign and map changes. I advice also to add 4th option - old altar cap
-"Sandstorm", "fearme!" and paragons need ballance
-keep 6v6

Nadia Roark · Jan 21, 2007, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Sandstorm and "Fear Me!" are not overpowered. Sandstorm is only overpowered if you stand in it (even a KD in it isnt terribly effective if you run out as soon as you get up), although the area of effect is rather enormous. Same thing with "Fear Me!" Just kite.

And the only thing broken about Paragons is the fact that they have 80 AL. The paragon skill balance was reasonable, I believe.

Nightwind Of Dwayna · Jan 21, 2007, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by coleslawdressin

6x8 skills = 48
8x8 skills = 64

Arguing that 6v6 has as much variety or as many possible builds only makes you look stupid....

35x8 skills = 280

If I didn't look so stupid, I'd be saying that Hero's Ascent should have 35 people per team, because then SURELY noone would run 30 Ranger Spikers and 5 monks. That would never happen.

I like all the changes, except I'd make the relic run map generate one relic per team, instead of just one relic. That way you'd have to split, some supporting your runner while others tried to make life tough on the other team's. GG ANet!

Death_From_Above · Jan 21, 2007, 10:48 PM // 22:48

To be honest from what i have seen sandstorm is over powered. I always thought it used to be but i thought it was just me but i noticed many others think it is to meaning it must be. You say its only overpowered if you stand in it but have you ever tried getting your team to monover past 3 sand storms in actual game play. In theory what you have said is true but in practice its harder than you think considering you may doge the first sand storms but once your actually fighting youll find it of some inconvience being that in HA the space on most maps in areas is tight.

Bish of [Bite] · Jan 21, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Return of Burial Mounds: Good.

Removal of Scarred Earth: Bad.

Other HA changes:

Broken Tower/Courtyard/Hall of Heroes: Keep them altars or make them 1v1.

insticnt · Jan 22, 2007, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Return of Burial Mounds: Like it.. But it is missing something.. maybe, add more obelisk stands, or increase the range and damage of the obelisk.

Removal of Scarred Earth: I wish you would put back in circulation, but make it worth double fame for killing each opposing team. Maybe to make this map faster put in a Enviromental Effect that would do damage.. Maybe if they cap the obelisk you gain a 15% damge buff or something.

Other HA changes: I would like to see new HA maps. I would like to see more double fame weekends. I believe there should be more than normal powered skills in the game, to a certain extent. It would be fun to increase, and balance alot of the crappy skills that are in circulation. I'm not up for nerfing a skill to the point where no one plays the build.

P.S Good Job on getting the community involved. You guys and gals are doing a great job. Just to bad so much spamming of crap that you don't want to read.

lord hammer hand · Jan 22, 2007, 12:11 AM // 00:11

burial mound: good
removal of scarred earth: good

other HA changes: it SUCKS!!!!

i think one way to attract players to play HA ascent is the reward nothing has change really from tomb to HA just the name its still the get more fame and earn rank for emotes but other than that like unlocking skill etc can be done in pve so not much players even go from pve to pvp... me as a pve players also as a pvp player one think we like is rewards... what if you guys from ANET think of a good reward for players in HA that will attract pve players such as faction point can be trade into unique pvp armor which has diff design from rank 3, 6, 9, 12, 15 its a good way to notice rank players instead of just titles and also attract pve players who like to dress up their characters... and pls make HA 8vs8 again... more players to kill and interact with = more fun.... pls consider coming from a loyal player for 2 years

Franco Power · Jan 22, 2007, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Hi Anet,

My feedback:

I liked the fact that you added Burial Mounds because it's a very fun map, reminds me of Dark Chambers which is my favorite, and also because it's the second map and its a 1vs1 like Underworld, so you don't jump straight to scarred earth or broken tower and you can get more fame.

The changes you did to broken tower are nice, I like the new killing thing because it discourages holding builds and it's fun!

I think removing scarred earth was nice because it was a 4vs4 and most of the times you get skipped there from underworld or even the zaishen, and no one likes having to roll 2 teams which usually takes 15-20 minuts just to get 1 fame.

I don't really like the new halls, why do you always make broken tower and halls similar? In my opinion either change halls to what it was or change broken tower, more variety is good.

But still, you need to improve ha and the skill balance, the current metagame is so broken and if you think about new players so much then think about this, it's so hard to get fame in HA at the moment because no one enjoys it, it's pure grind, you won't play for fun because HA is just "crap" now, full of fotms, 6vs6 is so bad, you always need 2 monks and a warder or something similar then other 3 professions and it just makes it boring also, I rather have 8 people on vent talking then 6

. Not 2 months ago I was doing an average of 70-100 fame a day, now I'm lucky if I do 20, because 1) I dont bother, 2)I hate HA at the moment and 3) so many fotms and no one likes always using/fighting the same thing.

I'm in a balanced guild and I only play balanced, if you think about new players then think about how hard fame is to get at the moment, how are players that bought Nightfall going to get their tigers and enjoy pvp at the same time?

I'm r7 at the moment and I want my tiger, people that have a deer want their wolf and let the tigers get their phoenixes, so please fix HA, I don't know if you think changing it to 8vs8 is the best thing, in my opinion it would be good, but also there's really some skill balance to be done, spirits and hexes are way too overpowered at the moment, also consider changing soul reaping because monks are inferior to necros at the moment in my opinion, necros can get almost unlimited energy with spirits and minions, if I recall, you nerfed Energizing Finale because monks were abusing it, then do the same to soul reaping please.

To finish, like I said before, I need 2000 fame for my tiger and I dont want to earn it playing against jagged bones, zergway and spirit spam, so do something quick as I'm losing my patience and pretty much everyone I know ( and I'm in a big HA alliance) is already looking for a different MMORPG.

~

master_of_puppets · Jan 22, 2007, 01:57 AM // 01:57

-return of Burial Mounds: good idea, sealing griefer place also good

-Scarred Earth gone: I am very happy, either removal or a time limit would have been good. No more frustrating 35-minute long matches for 2 fame.

-altar map changes as a whole: I guess I like the appraoch to eliminate holding builds but the ideas were bad tbh.
Kill count could work in 1 v 1, but definitely not 1 v 1 v 1. Too much ganking, kill-stealing, promotes AoE and spike

-murderball is just dumb. Holding team wins.

-I dont like the AB-style HoH thing. I hate AB and so do many Ha'ers and we dont want AB-style crap

-new maps

-8 v 8! 6 v 6 is just lame. i dont see why you dont just admit a mistake, why you have to be so stubborn.

-proper skill balance. Wheres proper nerfs To Grenth, Sandstorm, SF, ZB?

Celestial_Kitsune · Jan 22, 2007, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Maps

Burial Mounds in and Scarred Earth out. Good changes.
Broken Tower and Courtyard. Reduce the time limit to 6-7 min on both maps and make Broken Tower 1v1.

Hall of Heroes

Increased the time limit to 8 minutes. Good, three minutes was too short.
Random match objectives. Good change because it may encourage team diversity. HoH should have several randomly decided objectives one of which should be old King of the Hill and others should have conditions that discourage teams designed primarily for holding.
Kill Count. Kill stealing is a problem
Murder Ball and Capture Points. Do not work well on a small HoH map

Other Suggestions

Change favor system. It hurts PvE because players can't go to their favorite areas if they don't have favor. An alternative is to allow entry to elite areas for all, but give some kind of a team boost to the teams that have favor.
Eliminate hall skips. Zaishen -> HoH is ridiculous

Dark Knyt · Jan 22, 2007, 03:12 AM // 03:12

I like the new relic running system, but really hate the Idea of capping locations; It reminds me of Hero Battles which I'm not into. I also like the death count system.

I would suggest the halls being a random choice of 3 different maps: Old Style halls (before the update), Kill count wins, and Relic runs.
Burial Mounds is great, Thanks!

Oh, also something needs to be done about all these cookie-cutter builds that are overpowered, like SandStorm Warders, Jagged Bones (MM) and RampageAsOne thumpers.

I'd like to see all classes being used in HA, and it really dissapoints me that hardly anyone plays assassins or mesmers anymore. =(

Diage · Jan 22, 2007, 05:45 AM // 05:45

i do feel like i was overlooked, i want to make sure this is noted because if it were to continue as is, you might loose one more avid Ha'er. I find the kill count and murderball rediculous! Murderball is insanely unbalanced, if the holders are wise, they should NEVER loose alter through that, they get the time to run one orb before anyone can make it to them first off and their stareway is much too large to bodyblock effectivly enough to delay them 60 seconds. Whereas the stairway on either opposeing teams side is far far too skinny, its incredibly annoying when the holder jus bodyblocks them like none other and you cant humanly get the friggen thing up. Also, as ive said repeatedly, the kill count needs to be revised, its beyond agrevateing to go through and get kills on people just to notice another team whose useing aoe or degen got your point! It seems like the aoe and degen builds do the most damage without actualy doing the damage, so when we go to kill people almost everyone is already degened so if we were to try to get a point, it goes to the other team, there is nothing more agrevateing then that! These two forms are incredibly rediculous and outrageing. Perhaps create a better count system and mayb move the ghosts to the bottom of the stairs and decrease hold time to about 30 seconds, more high scoreing and more of a chance for other people who arent holding to win that match.

Alleji · Jan 22, 2007, 05:50 AM // 05:50

To anyone arguing for 1v1 kill count:

Just no.

Because I've beat teams by being up 1 or 2 points and then running around the altar for 6 minutes. That's called "no gg for lamers"

Diage · Jan 22, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

heh, funny there.. i did have a 1 v 1 kill count.. jus out of luck that there were only us and another team, beat em 49 to 2...