Curse

Dragonious · Jan 20, 2007, 03:00 AM // 03:00

7 minutes is a much better change that 10. It saves time from being wasted in a close match but still allows for sizable point accumulation. Though with that being said, why not try to put a point reward also....perhaps...25 to the first team will automatically win the match to keep it from getting out of hand? I think that both can be implemented; whichever comes first, 25 points to one team or time running out and highest team wins, will be the deciding factor.

Paddypower · Jan 20, 2007, 03:21 AM // 03:21

I changed my mind, i hate the way altar maps are, its all about having the altar, now your just destroying it more, bring 8v8 and let the meta game sort it out, you can have deathmatch on broken 3way, but halls has to be holding altar, plz don't ruin it more then you have alredy..

i think you have nerv Critical chop too badly, it seriously doesn't deserve 15 second recharge, i would have just reduced the damage down to 21 at 16 axe, .. and to really hurt it would be to make it 12 second recharge.. 10 is fine,

Searing flames is a very fair update i have to say, altho if there is lots of Sf ele it will have pretty much same effect, ...

Spoil victor.. this once again needs to be nerved a little harder.... spoilvictor up for like 10 seconds does such crazy damage to anything.. i think if you reduce the damage a bit ontop of the 20 sec recharge that will be effective..

Lightning hammer - Very nice update, the air ele lacked dps

spirtual pain got hit too much .. take it down to 90 damage max.. 76 is really unfair nerv

Blinding surge - hmmm i disagree with how badly it got nerved, i'd keep it 5 energy but reduce the blind time down to.... kinda low
now 9 sec or whatever down to 6 - its been hit a bit hard..

disappointed to see sandstorm not get touched tho.. its pretty lame especially as ghost doesn't kite out of it..

shield of regeneration is still way too energy heavy, that buff didn't do much to improve it since no one would take it for 15 energy.. reduce it to 10 and i would concider it

BRING 8v8 BACK SOONER THEN LATER, !!!!!!

BRING BACK 8v8 SOONER THEN LATER

TelephoneNP · Jan 20, 2007, 03:37 AM // 03:37

I like that Burial Mounds was put back into the rotation and Scarred was dropped. Scarred was terrible imo and most players think this as well.

Definately reduce the time limit on altar maps to 5-6 minutes though and it will be less boring.

However, I'm still for keeping HA the way it was but implementing 8v8, and adding burial mounds for scarred. And this sounds like a good idea:

Quote:

Personal Reccomendations:
-Maintain the Implementation of Burial Mounds - There really isn't a downside
-Remove the new Altar system, Revert to a 1v1 Broken tower with time limit 6 minutes.
-Courtyard change to 3-team Altar map 6 minute time
-HoH change to a 3-team, or even a 5-team altar map with 6 minutes or 10 minutes respectively

Jimusmc · Jan 20, 2007, 03:43 AM // 03:43

in my opinion... i say PLEASE change the altar maps back to capping it is just plain stupid... your teams winning by a bunch... and then your team dies with little time left and your team gets gank and defeated? thats some uterly BS you could hold out with the most pts.. to win the battle. o and please bring back 8v8... you'd make lots and lots of people happy... o yea THANK YOU for taking out scarred earth. that map wasnt worth your time. burial mounds is a nice map in my opinion. thanks for your time to read this.

coleslawdressin · Jan 20, 2007, 04:01 AM // 04:01

First of all, I haven't had a chance to log in and play yet but these are my initial impressions.

Burial Mounds: I am glad it is back.

Scarred: I can't say that I will miss it, but I really expected more effort put into map changes...................Have one of your competent PvP map designers make us a replacement please (i.e. not whoever made Isle of Jade). I hope that there are continued improvements later on because some maps are kind of stale and/or have problems with chokepoints and buggy spots.

Altar Mechanics: 7 minutes is probably better than 10. Winning by killing instead of tanking, ganking, or interrupting sounds good. I don't really like the idea of no DP... It could be ok... It sounds like a "newb friendly" change so I don't know why anyone would say there were none. AOE sounds overpowered on these maps. I assume that kills are credited for the killing blow, so this sounds a bit unfair to mass degen teams. Maybe Broken Tower should go back to 1v1 now.......

Important question for you Gaile: Is 8v8 still being considered to come back? 6v6 being incredibly boring plus not being able to find a GvG guild is probably going to be enough to get me to quit for good

Randomway Ftw · Jan 20, 2007, 04:34 AM // 04:34

New altar mechanics seem unfocused, they turn into a giant gankfest.
Burial mounds brought back is good.
8v8 would really help HA by giving more possibilities for builds, it just doesn't work this way.
I prefer the old altar system, maybe change the ghost ai a bit.
The new altar mechanics feel borderline broken.

6v6 has to go, if the new altar mechanics in halls are implememented permanently I will stop playing HA, this feels a lot worse than old mechanics 6v6, the whole zerg, run around kill, kill, kill, halls has made it that way.

Ramod · Jan 20, 2007, 04:56 AM // 04:56

I play HA alot, playing with many different builds from FoTMs to balanced builds to spike builds. My friends and I just play what's fun or what we are feeling like at the moment, we don't care if its frowned upon because we mash buttons because we do just as well in other builds. Currently rank 9 and going so I consider myself a seasoned HA player by now.

Burial Grounds: I like how this is put back as it makes getting to Halls that much better, like winning in Halls is suppose to be elite, you went through so many maps, and so many different styles of maps that the harder it is to get there, the more rewarding it is. Also I just plainly like 1v1 deathmatches.

Scarred Earth: As much as I hated this map before as a "newb" because its usually really hard to win and when you get skipped through the Zaishen, after probably like 20+ minutes of work you only get 1 fame, and that's IF you win. Unfortunately I was sad to see this go because this was yet another element that teams had to go through to reach Halls, just the fact of being four teams and only one gets to go through to the next round. I don't know about you, but I feel great winning Scarred Earth even though if it was just for 1 fame.

HoH Changes: These changes are what I unlike the most as before HoH was so glorius with your blue ghostly Hero standing there in the middle of the Hall, unprotected by anything go up agaisnt 2 teams that just want to bash you. I've always like the idea of "holding" teams as no matter how good the build they are using is, they are still going up agaisnt 2 other teams, that usually are not new to HA. Of course you get the occasionaly new players skipping from Zaishen to Halls, but you won't get it consecutively, you will sooner rather then later be approached by two very experienced teams that will know how to take you down. So being a holding team is not as easy as it seems, as its basically 2vs1 and it takes alot of skill in keeping your ghost alive, keeping your teammates alive or distract crucial skills at crucial moments. Take example you see a bspike team (considered by most HAers a gimmick build) ran by Mordrid Knight holding for ~40 rounds, though you can only see his team do that, you don't see another bspike team holding it for that long. Though certain builds can be modded to hold better, its the players themselves that make the build ultimately godlike.

arbiter · Jan 20, 2007, 04:59 AM // 04:59

~happy about scarred earth being gone and burial mounds coming back

~disappointed about altars, would really like to see altars back

~point matches seem like gank fests now, some1 just gets ganked first and they have no chance, then the remaining 2 just finish it, usually pretty fast.

~not really seeing how most builds would work overall, need something that can run for relics, kill fast for killing matches, and survive being ganked. With no holding aspect i really see no one team staying in halls for more than a couple matches.

~overall seems like you cant get much fame like this, and the main game play strategie to fight for the altar is gone and im not liking this.

arbiter

Deathlok · Jan 20, 2007, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Broken Tower.
One of the most horrible changes you have made to date. Two points I would like to address.

1) Your team can be in the process of killing a target, get him down to with 5% of his life only to have the other team wand him and be rewarded with a point. HA is suppose to be about skill and the ability of a team to work as a whole. Where is the skill in 'jacking' a kill???

2) Its down to the last 2 teams with 4 minutes remaining. The other team is two points ahead and all they do is run around in circles so you are unable to kill a target. With only 6 slots available for HA now there is not enough room to fit in snares or speed buffs as well as attack and defensive skills. Utterly disgusting.

HA
As previously mentioned it comes down to who has the better connection when it comes to Murder Ball. The favour of a country comes down to who can click on a relic and press spacebar the fastest??

Also, when it comes to running an item, 3 people can effectively block any location (especially stairs) and prevent the other team from running their relic to their Ghostly Hero. This is more so annoying with the current metagame with quite a few teams bringing anywhere beyond 5 spirits.

On the whole it seems as though these changes are catered to the PvE crowd and not to that of the PvP crowd. I know that it is impossible to please everybody but I genuenly believe that if these changes where to remain you would would see a negative effect on HA.

Cory T · Jan 20, 2007, 06:11 AM // 06:11

I rly dont like the new changes personally at all, Its almost as if HA has been made more NewB Friendly.

First off~~~~ Burial Mounds is a very good idea.. I like seeing it back in map Rotation

~~~ Scarred Earth..Ha just doesnt seem right With out i rly agree with wat ramod said

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramod

Scarred Earth: As much as I hated this map before as a "newb" because its usually really hard to win and when you get skipped through the Zaishen, after probably like 20+ minutes of work you only get 1 fame, and that's IF you win. Unfortunately I was sad to see this go because this was yet another element that teams had to go through to reach Halls, just the fact of being four teams and only one gets to go through to the next round. I don't know about you, but I feel great winning Scarred Earth even though if it was just for 1 fame.

~~~ No altar matches is just boring...The new Points system is just not gunna work out right when u happened to be the better team and have more points then Get Ganked by both teams just because u are ahead obviously...keep altar matches k thx

~~ Halls>>Just not rly into the new Idea...Definately would stick with the Classic altar match

~~ Definately would Not Like to See these Changes Stay in Place..And btw bring BAck 8v8 k thx

Chris Almighty · Jan 20, 2007, 06:34 AM // 06:34

i am really really disappointed looks like anet didnt spend anytime on this. The skills balance didnt balance anything that needed to be balanced (sandstorm, searing flame, grenth, etc.). The altar maps are way too stupid, id like just normal altars, where u cap and hold. Hall of Heroes needs to go back as it was.

Anet stop trying to think too hard you dont do well when u do, just bring 8v8 back, keep everything how it was, and do a GOOD skill balance that targets the right skills not just random skills.

btw do any of the devs play HA?

kumiel · Jan 20, 2007, 06:59 AM // 06:59

I haven't tested out the maps yet, but from Observer mode this is what I thought of the changes:

Burial mounds -> Great

Don't really mind Scarred Earth being gone

Kill count: Keep it for 2 man team (Tower I think) and make the time shorter, maybe 6 or 7 minutes.
Courtyard and HOH are disastrous with kill count, as it seems. It doesn't work with three teams. A team can easily steal a kill without doing much work.

HOH: remove kill count, keep murderball as long as either the stairs are wider or the heroes are closer, also something has to be done with the whole 'Explode after 1 minute thing' as it just lets whoever has the better connection get the relic. Maybe make a relic for each team, could be an interesting mix of running and preventing 2 other teams from getting their relic to their base.
I'm not so sure about capture. I haven't seen it enough yet, though it seems rather boring and random from what I've seen.
I definitely think a holding option should be added to HOH to replace kill count.
There should probably be an equal amount of offensive and defensive objectives for HOH, so as to promote build diversity.

Preppy · Jan 20, 2007, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Return of Burial Mounds: Great!

Removal of Scarred Earth: Bad! Removal of a perfectly good map, sure sometimes it was annoying at times but fame shouldn't be a breeze! But this is coming from someone who didnt like the removal of 6way scarred/6 way burial.

Other HA changes: Boy where do I start..

At first glance I thought I was going to hate this update. The main reason is that i didn't see an 8v8 coming back in this, which it probably won't. I held my tongue until I had experienced it first hand... and guess what... I love it

This is the best update to Tombs there has been!! let me explain

Altar Maps : win condition on an NPC with a 3 second cast? thats crap, CRAP.
The new way is exciting, very exciting. It's more of a king of the hill as it should be. I love the new altar maps

Hall of Heroes : Same as the other altar maps, relying on an NPC with 3 second cap.. blah blah crap. I've been there a few times since the update and each time it was crazy, very crazy. Granted i had good company but that was some of the most fun I've had in tombs in a long long time.

Skill Balance : Well Anet does do a bad job everytime at this. My main complaint is Divert Hexes, thats garbage nerf. I'm sure I don't have to explain why. "scrub-way" as some might call spirit way//jag bones didn't seem to get touched to much, I don't like any build that uses n/mo instead of monks..but meh. Mystic Wrath probably didn't deserve the nerf either, it was very slow spike, easy to interupt, many counters, and the new way of tombs would have killed it anyways, but its all good. E Surge...dont just dont. The SF/Glowing Gaze we'll see how that works, I was using Starburst and owning earlier.. Decent but definitly not on the bullseye

Things I Want :
1) 8v8
2) More maps
3) 8v8
4) ANET to listen to the people who actually play tombs on a regular basis

In conclusion...
I would love to have 8v8 back, you have no idea. However, this new direction of tombs I'm enjoying at the moment. GG ANET best update i've seen for quiet some time.
Thank you for turning the meta of tombs on its head for the moment.

daraaksii · Jan 20, 2007, 07:19 AM // 07:19

o Broken Tower: I really like it!

But yes, 10 minute is just too long. 7 or maybe 5 minutes or 25 kills would be better.
o Scarred Earth got removed: Well, that's another good update

o The altar system: This new altar system isn't that good. That's not HoH's style, it's AB. It was a nice morale for yourself when you capped the altar!

NO new HoH system please.

~Nafret

Lord Natural · Jan 20, 2007, 07:26 AM // 07:26

As if HA couldn't have gotten dumbed down any further, here we go again. It's like alliance battles now, where kids roll out with their AoE builds and think it's the ultimate in pvp. If anything, this is a competitive step down from what was HA, and that's no easy task. But if you're looking for bullet points...

Burial Mounds: Good idea bringing this map back, though a new map would have been much nicer.

Broken Tower/Courtyard: An even bigger gank-fest than it once was, favoring spikes and AoE damage. Not particularly fun, imo, and the 10 min timer is 10 mins of no fun. minus + minus

Scarred Earth: Good riddance! No one liked it anyway.

HoH: Didn't make it in tonight's run, so can't comment yet.

Skill balance: It looks like Izzy did fail at game balance, since almost all of the old builds still work, and some work even better. Some skills weren't reduced enough, and others weren't even touched. Steady Stance+Drunken Blow anyone? Wearying Strike?

Final Thoughts: HA used to be somewhat of a training ground for GvG. Now it's a training ground for alliance battles. All that most of the HA'ers I know wanted was: 8v8, maybe a couple new maps, and a decent HoH chest. Was anyone really requesting this mess?

Sir Vengence VI · Jan 20, 2007, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Removal of Scarred Earth: Woot! I hated this map so much.
Return of Burial Mounds: Woot!

And for the rest it all sux!, WTH i can go do AB if i wanna cap,cap,cap.

and 10min or 7min or 15min or 23 min is all to long.

4mins and 8v8 is the way.

GG ANET, now H A is not broke its destroyed.......kindda like Hiroshima in WWII

Alleji · Jan 20, 2007, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Alright. After 8 hours of playing halls, here's my critique:

Burial Mounds: Returning a perfectly good map = good.
Scarred Earth: Removing a map people hated = good
Broken Tower: I think the kill counter mechanic was well done. AvA capping is much better than the old altars, not focusing the game 100% on keeping a mentally disabled ghost alive is great as well. Now you have some control over him (i.e. dragging him around) and the game doesn't end if he dies. More focus on players, less on NPCs. Fights can now be won without a ghost = good.

The map itself, however, needs a change. There's not enough space on top of the hill for 3 teams and it becomes a retarded aoe-fest. You can't withdraw a bit either, because aoe is even worse on the ramps. So if you're getting hurt, you have to run half the map away. IMO the hill needs to be removed altogether and just have a flat surface with an altar, like the courtyard.
Courtyard: Like broken tower, except with more room = good. Maybe reduce the timer to 7-8 minutes. 10 seems kinda long.
HoH (kill count): Just like the other two "altar" matches, I think the kill count mechanic is well-designed.
HoH (relic runs): tbh, as soon as I read the update notes, I didn't think this was going to work. A 3-way relic run is completely retarded. Here's why this game type is trash and shouldn't survive into the final version in any form:
- Relic runs have multiple relics, so there's an element of a race to it. HoH relics are 12 people trying to snare and kill 1 runner, which inevitably results in him dropping the relic 5 seconds before it's going to "explode" 3 feet away from the dais. I don't think it's possible to create a race-type relic run with 3 teams.
- Relic run maps have a lot more room, whereas in HoH you have to get past 12 people blocking you inside a double ward foes in corridor that can be completely blocked by 3.
- Relic runs have multiple paths. Halls doesn't.
Whoever thought of 3-way relic runs should be punched in the face. Terrible.
HoH (alliance battle):Unlike relics, this could have been a viable game type, just not on this map. 3 of the 4 control points are at the end of narrow pathways and there's only one pathway leading up to them. The game type encourages splits, but the map discourages them, because if you split, one of the opposing teams can go ahead and wipe your split, which has no way to rejoin the main group because there is only one way through. Also, the capping range needs to be significantly increased. If you're trying to cap a shrine, you're setting up yourself to get raped by aoe.

I like the alliance battle mechanic, just please, not on this map. I'd be happy to see 2 teams playing AvA in the vault (i.e something big and with multiple pathways between control points), but halls is a terrible map for this.

In short, thumbs up on the new altars, thumbs down on HoH. Relics are complete garbage and shouldn't exist at all (this is coming from a person who likes relic runs, mind you!) and alliance battle should be moved to a different map, or redesign HoH itself.

Random complaint: Reduce the downtime. In one of the runs, we got a 2:30 timer from dark chambers to courtyard and then a 5:00 timer... that's right FIVE MINUTES to halls. Seriously, I relize there can only be 1 HoH at a time, but why not sacred? There's a map between CY and HoH, send us there. If there's no opponent, give someone a skip... that's how it's always worked. I don't particularly enjoy standing around for 5 minutes...

murtagh deadmoon · Jan 20, 2007, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Just a short post to say that i think A-net has done very well, they have made it so that the varying maps forces you to change tactics on the fly and you can't just go in with a build to conquer all and hold for all eternity. It is now alot more on skill and how you will go about beating your opponents. Good job A-net

Murtagh

Mourne · Jan 20, 2007, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Quote:

1) Your team can be in the process of killing a target, get him down to with 5% of his life only to have the other team wand him and be rewarded with a point. HA is suppose to be about skill and the ability of a team to work as a whole. Where is the skill in 'jacking' a kill???

That isn't true I believe. I do remember finishing off a couple of people on my Grenth's and the other team getting the point.

On topic though:

Burial Mounds is a great map imo, I am very glad it is back.

Broken Tower....eh I can't complain too awful bad about it, but I do agree with what some other people have said about it just being hectic, and there is a great risk of getting ganked. Capping overall in ha was always so boring to me, because as someone already mentioned, wait till about 1:45 left and then when the first person moves, everyone moves. Just got very boring overall. However, just a general "hey lets go out and kill everything" kind of map is always fun to me

.

HoH is the only place I think holding should be left alone. With all of the new people who are jumping into HA because of this, it would be hard for a very defensive team to make it that far just because of the kill counts on some maps and even relic runs. When I think of HoH, I think of a battle to hold down the alter, and imo thats what it should be left as. Even if you decide to just throw it in the rotation with all of the new HoH changes, that wouldn't be too bad.

Overall I LOVE this update. HA was so boring to me before just because everyone was running a holding build, there was no excitement in it at all. Now you have to worry about your monks getting spiked out or pressured out early on. It just makes the atmosphere better. Thank you very much for an update much needed.

~Sigh

ToxicWasted · Jan 20, 2007, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Burial Mounds: Love that it's back, always been one of my favourites!

Scarred: Couldn't care less, glad that F%cking map is gone.

Courtyard and Broken Tower: Well, I must say it's waaaay more fun than Altar Capping, but it needs a bit of fine-tuning still.

Hall of Heroes: It's Fun. With a capital F. I love it, needs a bit of fine-tuning though, for example, it would be cool if running the relic gave a small speed-boost (10% or so) so it's not too easy for the holding team.