Curse

Lord Oranos · Mar 01, 2007, 07:55 PM // 19:55

I know a topic has already been made on this, but I want to address a different issue. Doesn't this make condition stacking essentially useless? Or is this just me... I mean assassins could always be shaken off easily, but now with this skill, it just makes certain skills considerably weaker, the only thing Ive seen is BoA sins nowadays, no A/Mo's anymore.

So what are everyones thoughts on this skill?

Dzan · Mar 01, 2007, 10:42 PM // 22:42

What part of it do you believe is imbalanced?

ss1986v2 · Mar 01, 2007, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzan

What part of it do you believe is imbalanced?

the fact that its the best self condition removal, effective on others as well, removes more than one condition, has a low cost, quick activation, and a low recharge. take your pick.

now i personally dont have an issue with it, but notice how many X/Mo's are running around solely for mending touch. this may be addressed in the future at some time.

master_of_puppets · Mar 01, 2007, 11:26 PM // 23:26

yeah its too fast, way too many /Mo's for it to be balanced. needs nerf.

Dzan · Mar 02, 2007, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss1986v2

the fact that its the best self condition removal, effective on others as well, removes more than one condition, has a low cost, quick activation, and a low recharge. take your pick.

now i personally dont have an issue with it, but notice how many X/Mo's are running around solely for mending touch. this may be addressed in the future at some time.

1. You listed what it does. You didn't make any argument for why those abilities are bad.

2. Running a secondary for one secondary skill is how pretty much every build in guildwars is, I dont see an inherent problem.

The Ernada · Mar 02, 2007, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzan

1. You listed what it does. You didn't make any argument for why those abilities are bad.

He just listed a ton of reasons why. While I dont think it's a major thing, it's still a bit too good for what it does.

Vermilion · Mar 02, 2007, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Its not *that* effective on others, hench the touch range and all. That plus 3/4 is standard for cond removal so meh. Anyways, if it wasnt /mo, then itd be /P for remedy sig, or /A for sig of malice..so w.e. And you can't actually spam it as most /Mo's, so idk.

Dzan · Mar 02, 2007, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

He just listed a ton of reasons why. While I dont think it's a major thing, it's still a bit too good for what it does.

That was a list of what the skill is. If he thinks those particular traits are overpowered then make an argument for it. Saying "its too good" is not an argument for why it's too good.

ss1986v2 · Mar 02, 2007, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzan

That was a list of what the skill is. If he thinks those particular traits are overpowered then make an argument for it. Saying "its too good" is not an argument for why it's too good.

its strong because it gives all of the above things rolled into one. every other condition removal has some kind of drawback to it (purges long recharge, sig of malice's condition, remedy sigs cast and number removed, antidote sigs lack of diversity, the number removed compared to the other monk removals, needing a target for plague touch). add that to its great synergy with expertise, and its being run by just about every ranger, as well as just about any X/Mo. as far as self condition removals go, its pretty much head and shoulders above any of its competition.

again, i dont mind mending touch, i run it on about every melee class when i can afford going X/Mo. but its power is so much greater than any of the other option, plus the widespread use, dont be surprised if it sees a tweak in the future.

Dzan · Mar 02, 2007, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Widespread use and strong utility in and off themselves are not a reason to nerf a skill. Warping the metagame is what causes skills to get the bat.

Vermilion · Mar 02, 2007, 01:46 AM // 01:46

There isn't any synergy with expertise though I thought? Its a spell..

Wolydarg · Mar 02, 2007, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion

There isn't any synergy with expertise though I thought? Its a spell..

Yep, it'd still cost the full 5 energy. Mostly rangers run it for lack of use of any secondary professions when running a burning apply build I guess. Haven't seen any rangers that didn't run that build, but then again I haven't been playing guild wars lately.

ss1986v2 · Mar 02, 2007, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion

There isn't any synergy with expertise though I thought? Its a spell..

straight from in game:

"For each rank of Expertise, the Energy cost of all of your attacks, Rituals, touch skills, and Rangers skills are decreased by 4%. Several skills, especially those related to Energy costs and skill recharge times, become more effective with higher Expertise."

and from the wiki:

Touch ranged skills from any profession (Whether the skill is a spell or not does not matter), such as Vampiric Touch, Plague Touch, Mending Touch, Renew Life, Blackout, and Star Burst

remember that all spells are also skills, but not all skills are spells.

Vermilion · Mar 02, 2007, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Ah, thanks. I feel hella stupid now, esp since ive used the skill a lot today. -.-

Razz L Dazzle · Mar 02, 2007, 04:49 AM // 04:49

I think its a bit too good and has basically killed the Utility of Crip shot rangers on splits. Somewhat anyway. I think that a small nerf is needed perhaps something like:

Mend touch removes 1....2 conditions and for each removed ally is healed for X. Perhaps make the breakpoint at 8 prot. This would still make it good but not quite as powerful it is for /mo split characters.

Condition pressure builds are already difficult to run with LoD, RC, HP, Aegis , Its just a flesh wound, draw/mend touch...and the any number of other condition removals, Nevermind having just about every character with their own condition removal (mend touch, remedy signet). Its a good skill but condition removal is too good in the meta right now and this is one of the reasons.

Riotgear · Mar 02, 2007, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Only thing I think MT really needs is a slight recharge increase, or some other spam-reducer like a loss of 2..0 energy per condition removed. It's a good skill, but it does seem a bit too good for something that essentially makes cover conditions irrelevant.

Quote:

add that to its great synergy with expertise, and its being run by just about every ranger

Natural Stride does more for ranger gankers than -3 energy on MT. :P

Lord Oranos · Mar 02, 2007, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzan

What part of it do you believe is imbalanced?

I think everyone else pretty much summed it up, condition builds dont much stand a chance, save for burning arrows, just having the skill removes many threats, which otherwise might be a threat. For monks its god... Ive played with it as a self heal... got me out of some heavy stuff. Other classes can use it to phase out harmful conditions, two at a time. It seems the only hope against it is interrupt it. Then again, for certain classes(the assassin) the interrupt they have doesnt increase recharge time.

The low recharge alone destroys an assassins SP>BSS-TF combo, and only classes that can consistently reaply harmful conditions, mainly the ranger, can acually keep anything on the target.

Dzan · Mar 02, 2007, 11:29 AM // 11:29

So A-net introduces a counter to Cripshot and BOA assassins, each overpowered in their own right, and you... complain? That is the definition of balance, powerful skills with powerful counters.

Patrick Smit · Mar 02, 2007, 11:52 AM // 11:52

so dont use twisting fangs but something that deals raw damage. Big deal.

Undressed · Mar 02, 2007, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Considering how deadly conditions can be and how fast a SP/BoA can unleash them or a Ranger spam, I find a "counter" like mending touch very useful. Make it a spell though so Expertise won't have any use for it.