Curse

Arkantos · Feb 20, 2007, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

You are telling me my guild has to be more skilled than eF to have any chance against a build with 4 heros? Well good luck to essentially every guild in the game then. Broken build.

eF lost against Neo when they ran the discord spike. LoS won against Neo when they ran the discord spike. Is LoS beter then eF? No. I think that makes my point.

Patrograd · Feb 20, 2007, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

My thoughts exactly. People think it's overpowered just because eF lost to it?

No. because we are fed up of losing to scrub teams running it. You can beat the totally disorganised ones (we beat about 50% of the teams that run it), but any team running this with a decent level of co-ordination and even a basic grasp of tactics is really, really hard to beat, even if you bring many hard counters and play decent tactics, especially if you play on their map
[/QUOTE]

tomcruisejr · Feb 20, 2007, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

No. because we are fed up of losing to scrub teams running it. You can beat the totally disorganised ones (we beat about 50% of the teams that run it), but any team running this with a decent level of co-ordination and even a basic grasp of tactics is really, really hard to beat, even if you bring many hard counters and play decent tactics, especially if you play on their map

a build now is overpowered when it is ran successfully by scrub teams. right.

how do you define scrub teams then? how is a team a scrub if they win?

(hint: scrub teams are teams with guild tags/guild names that i don't recognise (if i do recognize, they are still scrubs coz they iwayed))

and hey, if a scrub team beats you, what does it mean?

a) scrub team has an overpowered build
b) your team is scrubbier
c) none of the above

Turbobusa · Feb 20, 2007, 12:00 PM // 12:00

How do heroes react when you put diversion on them?
What would happen if you split?
I like trying to find ways to counter lame builds

ho and I agree that heroes shouldn't be allowed in gvg

Kabale · Feb 20, 2007, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Quote:

How do heroes react when you put diversion on them?

They don't care because you're dead.

Wasteland Squidget · Feb 20, 2007, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

I'd say the IWAY guy is right this time so I'm gonna agree with him.

Someone agreed with tomcruisejr?

Banned.

Turbobusa · Feb 20, 2007, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabale

They don't care because you're dead.

*trying to find some answer here*
do they keep casting?
and what is their skill bar composed of?

sure something need to be fixed. meanwhile, react and adapt the way you play

Mental Leteci · Feb 20, 2007, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Someone agreed with tomcruisejr?

Banned.

: )))))))))))

Anyway, maybe all of you GvG players should check HA here and there to learn how to deal with a spike when you can't split. Just my opinion.

JR · Feb 20, 2007, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

: )))))))))))

Anyway, maybe all of you GvG players should check HA here and there to learn how to deal with a spike when you can't split. Just my opinion.

Funny. I seem to remember telling people who whined about spike in 8v8 HA to check GvG and how spike has never been particularly strong there, even on maps like Jade where you really can't split effectively.

DreamWind · Feb 20, 2007, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

a build now is overpowered when it is ran successfully by scrub teams. right.

Actually yes but that is besides the point.

In this case a build is overpowered when it has 4 heros and beats one of the best teams in the world. What does that tell you about the balance of the game? This isn't hard to understand.

I don't care how much you guys argue, a team with 4 heros should NEVER EVER be able to beat a wipe a team with 8 humans unless the 8 humans were afk or something. End of story.

tomcruisejr · Feb 20, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

In this case a build is overpowered when it has 4 heros and beats one of the best teams in the world. What does that tell you about the balance of the game? This isn't hard to understand.

I don't care how much you guys argue, a team with 4 heros should NEVER EVER be able to beat a wipe a team with 8 humans unless the 8 humans were afk or something. End of story.

you are failing to recognize that those heroes are controlled by humans too.

following the same train of thought, a team with 7 players should never ever be able to beat a team with 8 players or an almost dped out team should never ever be able to beat a team that has 10% morale and controlling the flagstand or virtual dragons shouldn't be defeated by accident prone coz vD is rank 1 and AP is rank 40 something or something. but hey, 7 man team can defeat an 8 man team and the almost dped out team can bag a win through ganking and AP defeated vD.

story doesnt end here.

and if you're in eF's shoes that time and you see a team with 4 heroes, will you say to your team that "Guys, let's play this seriously, ok?"

Franco Power · Feb 20, 2007, 08:11 PM // 20:11

No, you wouldn't because we all know how elitist pricks and above god people can get when they are in eF's position, so I'm thinking they messed about, didn't focus, and by the time they realised, wait....these guys are good, well it was too late because they were already WTFPWNED.

Riotgear · Feb 20, 2007, 08:38 PM // 20:38

By the time death number 2 rolls around, they probably figured out that they were up against a threatening team.

DreamWind · Feb 20, 2007, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

following the same train of thought, a team with 7 players should never ever be able to beat a team with 8 players or an almost dped out team should never ever be able to beat a team that has 10% morale and controlling the flagstand or virtual dragons shouldn't be defeated by accident prone coz vD is rank 1 and AP is rank 40 something or something. but hey, 7 man team can defeat an 8 man team and the almost dped out team can bag a win through ganking and AP defeated vD.

There is a big difference between a team beating another team due to outplaying them and a team beating another due to broken game mechanics and skills. If a team with 7 beats my team of 8 due to playing better that is fine. If they win with heavy DP due to outplaying me that is fine also. As for the ladder comparison, the current ladder doesn't mean anything as far as skill level. It just shows who grinds the most.

Discordway and heros in general is a broken mechanic/skill I don't think very many people are debating that anymore.

Xunlai Agent Smith · Feb 20, 2007, 11:05 PM // 23:05

I hope they only change Discord back but I think that they will ban heroes completely or something...

Riotgear · Feb 21, 2007, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by red orc

What need to be done is to fix heroes. Currently heroes can scan all 8 foes + as many NPCs in 0 time to find the right target. No person can do that.

Heroes are fine. The fact that heroes are suicidal and somewhat stupid needs to be offset by making them good at a couple things, at least, so that missions can be run without pulling hair out over the awful henchmen.

Notice all of this is PvE. Which is exactly where they should stay, I'm having great difficulty thinking how PvP would suffer from the removal of heroes, and I'm having similarly great difficulty seeing how "fixing heroes" is a better solution than just kicking them out of GvG/HA.

Mental Leteci · Feb 21, 2007, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Heroes in PvP is a stupid idea, yes, but that's still not the reason why eF lost. They lost cause they underestimated Neo.

Wasteland Squidget · Feb 21, 2007, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Blaming eF for a loss against a gimmick no one had seen before is retarded. Every team, no matter how good, tends to lose to crazy overpowered gimmicks in the first game. You don't know what to expect so you can't do what's necessary to counter it, whether you're taking the match seriously or not.

The real question is, are the players of Neo and their 4 heroes more skillful at the game than eF in an even matchup? No? Then the build is problematic and should be nerfed.

Mental Leteci · Feb 21, 2007, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Are the guilds that beat Neo better than eF? No, then the problem was in eF.

JR · Feb 21, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

Are the guilds that beat Neo better than eF? No, then the problem was in eF.

Right, because we should all be forced to run certain skills and adopt a certain play style to beat four players and four heroes running something fairly ridiculous. "Suck less!", as Izzy would say!

Or not.