Curse

clawofcrimson · Mar 06, 2007, 06:01 PM // 18:01

my definition of balance would be an enviroment where multiple options are present...

If you cannot win unless you take XX build... then the game is not balanced...and thus becomes less fun to play. I dont mind seeing powerful/ unique builds out there...but give us some options to play other builds and win...please

Elrodien · Mar 07, 2007, 12:19 PM // 12:19

I can understand why they buffed the Ritualist, pure greed. They obviously wanted the rit to be used more in pvp which means you can't skip buying Factions if you want to Rit-Spike. If it unbalances things in pvp land for a little while, so what?

Maybe I'm being too cynical, but thats how I see it.

JR · Mar 07, 2007, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elrodien

I can understand why they buffed the Ritualist, pure greed. They obviously wanted the rit to be used more in pvp which means you can't skip buying Factions if you want to Rit-Spike. If it unbalances things in pvp land for a little while, so what?

Maybe I'm being too cynical, but thats how I see it.

WTS Tin Foil Hats PST.

Elrodien · Mar 07, 2007, 03:48 PM // 15:48

See, even JR agrees! (or else he just took a toke too many..)

Byron · Mar 07, 2007, 04:25 PM // 16:25

I think it was counter-cynicism. Buying factions just for rit spike would be much like buying a tin foil hat. Useless, unless you don't want the aliens to read your mind. Amirite?

The skill balance did what it intended to do, progress the game. Unfortunately, it brought about a new host of scrub builds, and didn't do much for the most problematic build, Shadow prison. But now that shadow prison had been very mildly nerfed, we might actually see ligitimate adrenal spikes. I'm highly skeptical, though.

I agree with the fast-acting skill balances. Waiting months for a skill balance that completely changes gameplay in one swift stroke is just dumb. One change here and there would let the meta progress, not come to a sudden halt and about-face.

NeHoMaR · Mar 11, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

I was thinking about Arenanet must buff some skills forcing the creation of some overpowered builds, exactly the opposite to balance game. A lot of people are indeed quiting the game because balance. I am completely sure that gimmicks, FOTM, IWAYs or whatever, are 100% necessary for the heal of this game. For example, the end of IWAY was also the end of HA, coincidence? Half of HA was there just looking for Iway teams (pugs), I am not sure if people really understand my point, I am not pro-IWAY neither anti-IWAY, my point is over popular builds are needed, EVEN if you don't play that over popular build.

Zonzai · Mar 13, 2007, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by clawofcrimson

my definition of balance would be an enviroment where multiple options are present...

I think ANet should "unbalance" the game again. Make IWAY, rit pike, air spike, blood spike and everything else spike worthwile. I mean, all they do is go around nerfing spike damage over and over and over and over and over again.

GvG is getting lame. HA is lame and RA and TA have alwas been lame. What's left?

Sinful Doom · Mar 13, 2007, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zonzai

I think ANet should "unbalance" the game again. Make IWAY, rit pike, air spike, blood spike and everything else spike worthwile. I mean, all they do is go around nerfing spike damage over and over and over and over and over again.

LOL!... Oh wait, you were being serious???

Saphrium · Mar 13, 2007, 02:17 AM // 02:17

AB never have as many problems as HA (I know AB is more like casual PvP to many people, including me.), because the builds in AB are usually combining survivability, single spike damage and either specific or general shutdown ability. It is more fun to play until one team start to gather a big mob and rush certain places. I think concentration of playing essences in a defined region(I hope people understand what i mean) makes a spike possible.
We know that our hp is pre-determined and definite, when the amount of players in team becomes greater, the damage output factors(not necessarily add up).

So I think reducing the possible intended playing power concentration is a good way to solve the spike problem, but not necessarily best practice for skill balance.

NeHoMaR · Mar 13, 2007, 05:46 AM // 05:46

I actually see a SOLUTION in unbalancing the game intentionally, yes you read well, Unbalancing = Solution. And I am NOT being sarcastic nor joking.

Riotgear · Mar 13, 2007, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeHoMaR

I actually see a SOLUTION in unbalancing the game intentionally, yes you read well, Unbalancing = Solution. And I am NOT being sarcastic nor joking.

The theory that "everything's fine if everything is overpowered" carries some weight, but reminds me of why WoW's PvP sucks so much: Because everyone's busy mashing their I Win buttons. In WoW, that turns matches into "how many people can I kill before I die again?" In GW, that turns matches into "whose infuser has the itchiest finger?"

Your description of "unbalanced" was actually closer to balanced than it is right now, because despite several scrubby builds that were easy to play being semi-successful, a GOOD team could easily overcome them. Since Nightfall though, the ability to turtle and spike has been given a major boost, which kind of culminated with the Eurospike Championship and HA getting overrun with ritspike.

There aren't too many glaring problems left. The only skill that really still screams "nerf me!" is Shadow Prison. There are a few other things that are a bit out-of-line, namely Natural Stride, Mending Touch, Divert Hexes and Mystic Regeneration, but that's about it.

Morganas · Mar 13, 2007, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

There aren't too many glaring problems left. The only skill that really still screams "nerf me!" is Shadow Prison. There are a few other things that are a bit out-of-line, namely Natural Stride, Mending Touch, Divert Hexes and Mystic Regeneration, but that's about it.

If you nerf divert, you're gonna have to nerf alot of hexes, or else they'll become dominant. Mending touch? Nerf BA and YAA.

Oh but wait, with the recent power creep in straight up heals (ZB and LoD), it's damn hard to pressure a team with straight up damage without using the new imba condition inflicting or hex abilities introduced in nightfall, so let's nerf ZB and LoD too.

In conclusion, nerf nightfall plz.

Riotgear · Mar 13, 2007, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morganas

In conclusion, nerf nightfall plz.

Pretty much.

Patrick Smit · Mar 13, 2007, 08:45 AM // 08:45

A nerf of ZB would be quite ok, a powerfull heal with a simple condition healing for 180-200 is just too cheap. The return on energy may be diminished to maybe say 7 or 8.

Patccmoi · Mar 13, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

A nerf of ZB would be quite ok, a powerfull heal with a simple condition healing for 180-200 is just too cheap. The return on energy may be diminished to maybe say 7 or 8.

They could also make it 5E and you lose 5E if target has more than 50% health, would be another interesting way to balance it. Would be slightly cheaper overall, but never free. Dunno, ZB is slightly overboard but i don't feel that it's game breaking either.

Honestly i feel that the last balance change helped a LOT with the gimmicks and now i don't really feel that it's a bunch of overpowered stuff hitting each other. I agree with SP still being slightly too good being the main trouble.

Some hexes are good, yes, but we don't carry Divert atm and we don't usually have too much trouble with hex teams (we have more than 2 Veils ofc).

Rts are finally used more in balanced setup using stuff like Weapon of Fury, Warmonger, some spike assist and spirits, etc. They finally found a place in the meta out of a lame gimmick.

I'm pretty happy with how the balance is now personally. Ofc there's still stuff that can be improved, but a patch that just nerfed stupid gimmicks without introducing new ones directly (like, oh let's buff Lamentation cause it's underused) was sure a nice relief.

HolyHawk · Mar 13, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

And I thought stuff like Ether Renewal were absolutelly broken. NF itself managed to introduced a lot more of them. Good old days.

Riotgear · Mar 13, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

They could also make it 5E and you lose 5E if target has more than 50% health, would be another interesting way to balance it.

I'd rather they keep it at 10e/gain energy. Energy loss can be managed by switching to a low set, then powering out 160HP+DF heals for barely over 5 energy, and switching to a higher set when needed. Energy cost, on the other hand, has to be paid.

Quote:

And I thought stuff like Ether Renewal were absolutelly broken. NF itself managed to introduced a lot more of them. Good old days.

Nothing in NF is as broken as Ether Renewal was. The only thing even bordering that level of stupidity was Energizing Finale.