Curse

Death_From_Above · Mar 12, 2007, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yunas Ele

I think ANet's realized majority of the old HA fanbase has already rage quit the game and hates ANet already. Sure, a few will come back if they fix HA, but ANet is a company out to make money, not a charity. Their marketing analysis department (or whatever the hell its called) probably realized that the amount of money made from returning HA players who would buy C4 is not enough to warrant the time spent fixing HA. The time would be better spent on pleasing PvErs who will definitely buy more character slots and for sure buy C4.

So to sum it up, ANet realized they'd make more money pleasing PvErs than pleasing a couple of people who would return to the game. At least thats what I'm speculating.

I mean if ANet was actually working on something with HA I'm sure Gaile would be here at least saying "Hey guys, sorry, our plans for HA are taking longer than expected. We'll give you more updates soon. Thanks and sorry for the delay..." or something like that. But she isn't. We haven't heard anything. Whys that? Because they can't just bluntly say "LOL, our marketing analysis department realized you aren't worth the time, see ya!"

So ya.... thats my speculation...

well thats what happens to companys that go crooked. when it becomes all about trying to rake in as much cash as possible first, they lose sight of things and end up suffering for it. If they didnt become so greedy thinking of how to throw so much cash in their pockets. They would have realised they would be in a better predicament in this making more cash. They want to bring pvers in HA, what they dont realise is that PVpers will never 100 percent be dedicated to HA. THATS why after making HA pve friendly (plain idiotic). You realise barely anyone still plays it. Its because the pvers dont care, its just somethin to pass time sometimes not a commitment for them. Also another think i want to say about this decsion anet are supposedly making (more like i bet there on tours to disney land paris to go and have a go on the rides). A simple question. If i took long to answer the equation 2+ 2 would you feel like throwing me out a window if answering it quickly would result in a reward for my team. Anet obviously dont know how to add 0.5 and 0.5 because if they did tombs would be whole and fixed and wouldnt take this time. I recon someone should lend them a calculator.

Effendi Westland · Mar 12, 2007, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Death_From_Above

They want to bring pvers in HA, what they dont realise is that PVpers will never 100 percent be dedicated to HA. THATS why after making HA pve friendly (plain idiotic). You realise barely anyone still plays it.

Apart from the other statements that aren't in any way substantiated, I'd like to state that if there is one thing I notice, it is more districts in the european HA. During the last of the 8v8 days I didn't notice as many as I do now, I think the german and english language districts have 1 extra, and the french 2.

Not that I can prove it, it's just what I think I observe. Also last weekend there we're 4 international districts, which is also more then during the 8v8 period before 6v6 double fame weekend.

Lord Mendes · Mar 12, 2007, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effendi Westland

Not that I can prove it, it's just what I think I observe. Also last weekend there we're 4 international districts, which is also more then during the 8v8 period before 6v6 double fame weekend.

Wrong.
Try again.

Randomway Ftw · Mar 12, 2007, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effendi Westland

Not that I can prove it, it's just what I think I observe. Also last weekend there we're 4 international districts, which is also more then during the 8v8 period before 6v6 double fame weekend.

There were usualy six districts at primetime during the last days of 8v8, please don't lie. I can afk in ID4 also and make 4 districts even though last two districts only have a combined total of three people in them.

LifesRestorer · Mar 12, 2007, 06:45 PM // 18:45

any link to a thread by a dev, or a page on another website in any chance? would be very helpful
-thanks

God Apprentice · Mar 12, 2007, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by therangereminem

ok anet did give info on ha this weekend it will go bvack to 8v8 for a week and there willbe new balance changes then also they fear 8v8 makes build to strong andover powering thats why thereis 6v6 they how ever said that after the week it will go back to 6v6 and there will be more balnced skills changes ad then they will give us the answer 8v8 or 6v6 thans you guys

Your time machine is seriously broken.

Run for it Marty!

/fail

luilui · Mar 12, 2007, 07:17 PM // 19:17

there

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10113656

Lorekeeper · Mar 12, 2007, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Well... as much as i hate to fuel the fires of flame. Here goes.

Weapon of Choice last nite... i listened to it for the first time, because my guildies said it was worth a listen. Special guest this week was Izzy. So i was very interested to hear his answers to the unevitable avalanche of irate questions about skill balancing etc etc.

Im no expert on WoC downloads so if someone could post a link to download the show it would be much appreciated.

Izzy was basically asked why skill balances take so long
He was asked a few other interesting questions too, some i forget.
Like... the broken nature of Jade Isle, apparently they were working on it and that it would take time.

He responded to that question like a true politician... listen you will see why. In fact, as far as im concerned Izzy answered most questions like a politician, i wasnt left content with the answers to the important questions, in fact his answers only made my general concerns about the way anet deal with pvp issues a great deal stronger.

One thing i will remember for a while, is that Izzy apparently thinks that there is no source of good constructive feedback from the general pvp community. I wont put words into his mouth but it was as if he was citing that as a reason for the disparity between the devs and the community...
I wasnt very happy to hear him say that... not one bit.

I have two pieces of advice in light of the WoC show.

1. Employ someone to scour these forums, or other forums, sift through the crap posts and find the good ones. They ARE there, in fact, i started a very popular thread on proposed skill changes a few months ago... MANY of the ideas posted in that thread actually got implemented into the game... im not saying that you took them from the post seeing as you probably never read it... but the fact that the communities thoughts on skill changes on some level mirrored the devs... points to a potential source of cooperation. There is no excuse like ''there is no constructive discussion in the community'' if i wasnt so reasonable i would have taken that one sentence as a clear statement of anets complete and utter ignorance of the pvp community. And that is really a horrible failure for any game company. You transmitted such a false statement on fan base radio... i really think you should count your lucky stars there has been no backlash yet.

2. If you do not have the resources to scour these forums... i understand it might be difficult to devote a team member to 'forum reading'... then host your own official forums. Many other successful game companies have done this. Just the mere effort of hosting a central forum for fan feedback is enough to give out the impression that there is some sort of dev-fan communication going on on a large scale. You can enlist help from mature member of the community to act as moderators for these forums, something other game companies also do. Having official forums would make Gaile Gray's job a great deal easier too... she wouldnt have any problems of posting on numerous unofficial forums, she would just post on the official one and the unofficial would post links to the official. A centralised source of moderated fan feedback would help... there are no drawbacks, i really dont think the costs of running such a forum would blow your budget.

anet.. izzy... whoever reads this... your failure to carry out either of the above examples of dev-fan communication is the sole reason for the apathy and the flaming you receive from the pvp community. The divide between our expectations and demands with what is provided, is a result of this failure. I describe your attempts at communication with the general gw community as pitiful... as some poor compromise for the above 2 suggestions. You always complain that your attempts at communication are always met with more whining and more complaints... i dont call writing threads once in a blue moon... rarely replying to the good posts... and rarely following up on information... attempts at communication. FAR from it.

The more you ignore the valuable feedback you ACTUALLY do receive... the less you will receive it and the more dominant the flaming becomes. Its a vicious circle and the only party capable of changing the status quo is YOU. The moderators in these forums cannot delete every horrible whining post... thats tantamount to censorship... if the moderators are asked to reduce the amount of whining posts... they would only be masking what is a fundamental problem. Just because whining posts get deleted or moderated, doesnt mean there isnt still a problem underneath. Its a cosmetic solution for a deep rooted problem.

Basically, you dig your own grave by not recognising what valuable feedback you do receive. This recognition needs to be public, public recognition of fan based feedback will encourage more of the same. Ignoring valuable public feedback will promote whining...

if this doesnt make any sense, i apologise... continue doing what youre doing and reap the seeds you sow.

Lorekeeper

The Last Windseeker · Mar 12, 2007, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Anet really started to lose my respect, and, as I see it, much of the community's respect when they made the initial HA change from 8v8 to 6v6. What they did wrong was that they seemed to have just done the change spontaneously without any real input from the community even though they claimed that they polled the HA community. At that time, though, most of the HA community was opposed to the change just as most of the HA community now is still opposed to the change.

Anet at this point, instead of addressing the community, and admitting they did something against the general consensus, ignored the community, said that their poll showed that people wanted 6v6. So the months pass, and countless polls are made on the forums asking for the return of 8v8, and Anet continued to ignore the community until recently.

This is not how a company should run. If you are in a company, you want to listen to your customers otherwise they aren't going to come back and you aren't going to make money. Anet failed to grasp this simple statement back then, and, as it seems, they still fail to grasp it. They ignored the issue of HA for almost a year. A whole year. This makes me wonder if Anet really is listening to the community, or if they just say they are and are doing what they like.

I used to have a lot of faith in Anet, but I have lost it over time due to issues such as this. It seems Anet feels that it's okay to act like a little kid, and claim that it's not their fault. I really hope that Anet starts to address the concerns of the PvP community by reading post such as the ones found in fan forums such as this one, and not just change things in an almost random manner hoping that it will fix the problem.

The problem will not be fixed, and Anet will continue losing players until Anet starts communicating and listening to the community as they should. It is not enough just to talk to the community, but to actually listen to the community is what Anet must do if they wish the players to respect them once again.

Death_From_Above · Mar 12, 2007, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Well... as much as i hate to fuel the fires of flame. Here goes.
One thing i will remember for a while, is that Izzy apparently thinks that there is no source of good constructive feedback from the general pvp community. I wont put words into his mouth but it was as if he was citing that as a reason for the disparity between the devs and the community...
I wasnt very happy to hear him say that... not one bit.

Lorekeeper

Rofl, To be honest if i were anet and i read your whole post id be feeling stupid and probably give myself the sack. So izzy thinks theirs no source of constructive feedback, a question. Who is this guy? He thinks that now after hes ruind tombs. I could say alot of things about the anet company at the moment, i have a burning distaste towards them and im affraid hearing all of those stuff has only enraged me even more but for the sake of the forms i wont speak my mind in fear i go over the top. But the whole fact he says something like that to be honest seriously makes me question anets capability. He obviously has a vizard on, acts like a polotician but underneath hes anything but it. The fact the pvp community has been shouting out in large majoritys for simular things and he claimes it is not a source of good feedback is disterbing. If this ironic statment is true, i beg to ask why the change to 6v6 was implimented because of events on the forms. Sounds rather stupid to me. Anet need to sort themselves out because if they want to succeed they need 2 stop talking rubbish because i believe thats whats annoying players even more. And as you said, it is quite suprising they havent recieved a bigger backlash now. But i believe thats because players are just waiting for anets decision. but im sure they will mess somthin up there again so i predict a huge backlash soon. But anets like a cat with 9 lives and there acting stupid because they think they have 18.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Last Windseeker

Anet really started to lose my respect, and, as I see it, much of the community's respect when they made the initial HA change from 8v8 to 6v6. What they did wrong was that they seemed to have just done the change spontaneously without any real input from the community even though they claimed that they polled the HA community. At that time, though, most of the HA community was opposed to the change just as most of the HA community now is still opposed to the change.

Anet at this point, instead of addressing the community, and admitting they did something against the general consensus, ignored the community, said that their poll showed that people wanted 6v6. So the months pass, and countless polls are made on the forums asking for the return of 8v8, and Anet continued to ignore the community until recently.

This is not how a company should run. If you are in a company, you want to listen to your customers otherwise they aren't going to come back and you aren't going to make money. Anet failed to grasp this simple statement back then, and, as it seems, they still fail to grasp it. They ignored the issue of HA for almost a year. A whole year. This makes me wonder if Anet really is listening to the community, or if they just say they are and are doing what they like.

I used to have a lot of faith in Anet, but I have lost it over time due to issues such as this. It seems Anet feels that it's okay to act like a little kid, and claim that it's not their fault. I really hope that Anet starts to address the concerns of the PvP community by reading post such as the ones found in fan forums such as this one, and not just change things in an almost random manner hoping that it will fix the problem.

The problem will not be fixed, and Anet will continue losing players until Anet starts communicating and listening to the community as they should. It is not enough just to talk to the community, but to actually listen to the community is what Anet must do if they wish the players to respect them once again.

This is what my problem is. They try act all sactamonious but really there not. Its bassically like saying there a corrupt goverment. Like in like 1919s cant remember which goverment but they held elections but didnt pay any attention to them. It was just really an excus to say ye we do this when they dont. Anet are trying to pretend like they listern to their players which ticks me off even more when they dont even clearly care. Anet should be reading these posts and learning from them because what they are getting here from the players its good feedback which would actualy save there company.

Lord Natural · Mar 13, 2007, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undressed

No PvEr'S QQ has anything do with the changes to HA.

I disagree. When HA was classic 8v8 I didn't once hear somebody who actually played HA say, "I wish HA were 6v6." Then when they went 6v6, again, everyone I played with said, "Holy crap this sucks, when is 8v8 coming back?". Yet you'd visit the forums and see many people arguing for 6v6, even though the vast majority in HA seemed to back 8v8.

Consider these points:

1) When classic 8v8 was going strong, there were QQ threads everywhere from pve'ers/pvp starters who couldn't get HA groups, couldn't get rank, etc. QQ etc.

2) 6v6 is a little more accessible in terms of making groups.

3) Heroway 6v6 was accessible times infinity. Solo HA?

4) Alliance battles are the most pve friendly type of pvp.

5) New altar objectives closely mimic alliance battles.

What other conclusion is there to draw, other than anet is bending overbackwards to appease the pve community? They obviously weren't aiming at pleasing the existing pvp community, since the introduction of 6v6 and heroes caused many to quit HA (or the game) altogether.

I Teh Mighty Warrior I · Mar 13, 2007, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effendi Westland

Apart from the other statements that aren't in any way substantiated, I'd like to state that if there is one thing I notice, it is more districts in the european HA. During the last of the 8v8 days I didn't notice as many as I do now, I think the german and english language districts have 1 extra, and the french 2.

Not that I can prove it, it's just what I think I observe. Also last weekend there we're 4 international districts, which is also more then during the 8v8 period before 6v6 double fame weekend.

Oh hell yea! 6v6 > 8v8 because the german districts have 1 extra district and the french have 2 more! Great assumption! Don't kid yourself, there was always more districts in 8v8 than in 6v6, which doesn't prove anything because I could be afk in district 20 but there would still be 20 districts (I think).

tomcruisejr · Mar 13, 2007, 03:20 AM // 03:20

I don't know about you guys but HA died when the number of American Districts drastically shrinked.

Randomway Ftw · Mar 13, 2007, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

I don't know about you guys but HA died when the number of American Districts drastically shrinked.

Don't you mean the IWAY population declined. You were really asking for that to be said.

tomcruisejr · Mar 13, 2007, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomway Ftw

Don't you mean the IWAY population declined. You were really asking for that to be said.

Do you think the older HA teams (when IWAY wasn't even made) only formed in International districts? Remember when Europe didn't even get a single damn favor?

Hmmm?

Anyway, you don't have to interpret what I said because it is crystal clear.

Div · Mar 13, 2007, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Anet clearly rarely gives us any info on what they're doing most of the time. All things are secret, and only a little before they actually release it do they really announce it. Another thing to get used to is that Anet is extremely slow at getting things done, especially regarding PvP. Instead of keeping their promise of having automated tourneys in January, they went on to put this lame celestial tourney which isn't even working out. Instead of making HA for the better, they added "kill count" and killed HA. HA started to die when the old HAers got sick of it, got tired of doing the same things over and over again, and Anet's changes are not helping bring much of a new player base into HA. The day that Anet pays attention to PvP is the day that everyone is done with this game, since clearly they don't care much about promoting PvP (outside of the lame articles on their website) and don't care about game balance (can you say SF ftw?).

Riotgear · Mar 13, 2007, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

4) Alliance battles are the most pve friendly type of pvp.

5) New altar objectives closely mimic alliance battles.

"PvE friendly" essentially means "noob friendly." Which is caused by biassed maps, lighter penalties for dying than ANY other PvP arena, and lack of player quality-control producing easy opponents.

Changing altar objectives is not going to make it attractive to RPers, the objectives were changed because the number of defensive and spiking options has been steadily increasing, and SoC made it even easier to force the Ghostly on to the altar. Holding/spike is dumb, and I'm personally not going to miss the objectives that promote it.

Quote:

Anet's changes are not helping bring much of a new player base into HA.

HA's player base is always going to stagnate to a degree because of perception of rank discrimination and the significant jump in player quality needed to graduate to it from other places. I believe lack of new players may be making the problem worse (at least at the store I work at, Nightfall sales are depressing, but I don't have any real sales data for GW's many, many markets, so hey)

Regardless, the change back to 8v8 sparked a lot of interest again, even if it was ultimately throttled by kill-count scoring and ritspike. Give them time, they appear to be listening well this time around, and I believe the results will be worth it.

coleslawdressin · Mar 13, 2007, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurse With Wound

If they still cant decide, how about tossing a coin?

Better yet, poll your customers then choose the less popular choice after keeping them hoping for months, yet torturing them with the less popular choice. You see game developers derive great joy and amusement from watching their customers squirm and scream.

Franco Power · Mar 13, 2007, 12:38 PM // 12:38

the QQing never ends~ Anet will fix HA when they feel it's time, like in 2009 or something.

Randomway Ftw · Mar 13, 2007, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Changing altar objectives is not going to make it attractive to RPers, the objectives were changed because the number of defensive and spiking options has been steadily increasing, and SoC made it even easier to force the Ghostly on to the altar. Holding/spike is dumb, and I'm personally not going to miss the objectives that promote it.

The only time that a build was overpowered in defense was the paragon holding build, and that was fixed with a skill balanced. I wonder who keeps adding skills that lack propper counters and can't be removed. The reason ANET made SOC was that people whined about interupts on the ghost. In 6v6 half the time when people held halls they were holding against ai bots spamming searing flames on the ghostly. Near the end of 8v8 no one held for long, because the game was reasonably balanced, and most teams had effective counters, face two good teams determined to beat you and you're going to die (although maybe not lose if they couldn't cap).