Curse

Navaros · Dec 29, 2006, 07:40 AM // 07:40

I was a long-time HA player but I lost interest and I hardly play in it any more. Here are things that if done, would make it interesting again.

How to improve HA:

1. Fix Sigil prices. A fair and reasonable price for a Sigil is 50k. Sigils have been worthless for eons. 7500g for a Sigil is not even remotely worth the time or effort in getting one. This is an issue that should have been fixed eons ago. Sigils should have a fixed price of 50k at the trader. Currently there is no point whatsoever to win on the HoH map, so why bother?

2. Bring back the Rift Wardens and make HA into Tombs again. It especially makes sense now that the Nightfall has been reversed hence Tombs shouldn't be corrupted any more.

3. Make it 8v8 again. Almost every single good player hates the 6v6 because it gives less options work with and is a dumbed-down version of what Tombs originally was.

4. Put back in Heroes. It was one of NF's selling points, and it's unfair to nerf them out of HA a few months after NF was sold on that premise just because a vocal minority of players on the forums complain about them. Heroes were vastly popular in HA because most players loved using them in HA. Therefore, stop drastically changing the HA game due to the whims of players who post on this board or any fansite board.

5. Make every gold item that drops in HoH be worthwhile, with no crap mods, no crap skins, and no crap reqs. From my experience most of them aren't worth 600g, which again speaks to the vast lack of reward or point for being successful in HA.

6. Stop nerfing every single fun build that most players like playing. There was never anything really wrong with IWAY (good players would never lose to it unless they screwed up, which reasonably means there was no justifiable reason to nerf it), but it got nerfed multiple times because of incessant complaints on fansites. But most players love it so much that they kept playing IWAY anyways throughout all the multiple nerfings. What this should tell Anet - players in the game who popularize builds and enjoy playing them should be who determines what "fun" is --- not fansite posters who complain about anything common that they are incapable of beating. ie: IWAY or any of the other things that were nerfed mostly just because they were popular and fansite posters got disgruntled because they couldn't beat them (not because they were overpowered which should be the only reason anything ever gets nerfed). Nerfing every single fun and popular build that comes out makes the players who populate HA in the most numerous amounts, not want to bother playing in HA any more. The players of those builds out-number the complainers about them, so start siding with the players of the builds and keeping their fun intact, not the complainers'.

7. Give 100 fame per win on the HoH map irrespective of consecutive wins prior to it. Winning the "ultimate battle" should have a point. This would give it one.

8. Give emotes for every title. Not really worth the effort to go past R9 seeing as there are no emotes until a ludicrous increase in fame past R9, and even at R12 the emote isn't as dominant as the tiger one.

9. Give more benefits to high-ranked players besides faction cap increase, emotes, and Hero title. An example would be letting them get good skins like Fissure for PVP armor which has been suggested many times before via Faction unlocks. Maybe tie it into Rank also or wins on the HoH map.

10. Make PVP titles like the Hero/Rank one max-able, or at least count towards Kind of a Big Deal or an equivalent Maybe break them down into small groups of title tracks instead of one infinite never-ending one. Not really fair that there is no other title like Kind of a Big Deal which encompasses a R9+ Hero title, especially since realistically the Hero title can never be maxed.

11. Bring back Burial Mounds.

12. Add in new maps and new content to HA.

13. Increase the rewards in HA by a ton. Add new rewards too. A major reason people don't like playing in HA is because the "reward to time/effort/skill/agony investment ratio" is horrendous.

gasmaskman · Dec 29, 2006, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

I was a long-time HA player but I lost interest and I hardly play in it any more. Here are things that if done, would make it interesting again.

How to improve HA:

1. Fix Sigil prices. A fair and reasonable price for a Sigil is 50k. Sigils have been worthless for eons. 7500g for a Sigil is not even remotely worth the time or effort in getting one. This is an issue that should have been fixed eons ago. Sigils should have a fixed price of 50k at the trader. Currently there is no point whatsoever to win on the HoH map, so why bother?

2. Bring back the Rift Wardens and make HA into Tombs again. It especially makes sense now that the Nightfall has been reversed hence Tombs shouldn't be corrupted any more.

3. Make it 8v8 again. Almost every single good player hates the 6v6.

4. Put back in Heroes. It was one of NF's selling points, and it's unfair to nerf them out of HA a few months after NF was sold on that premise just because a vocal minority of players on the forums complain about them. Heroes were vastly popular in HA because most players loved using them in HA. Therefore, stop drastically changing the HA game due to the whims of players who post on this board or any fansite board.

5. Make every gold item that drops in HoH be worthwhile, with no crap mods, no crap skins, and no crap reqs. From my experience most of them aren't worth 600g, which again speaks to the vast lack of reward or point for being successful in HA.

6. Give emotes for every title.

7. Stop nerfing every single fun build that most players like playing. There was never anything really wrong with IWAY (good players would never lose to it unless they screwed up, which reasonably means there was no justifiable reason to nerf it), but it got nerfed multiple times because of incessant complaints on fansites. But most players love it so much that they kept playing IWAY anyways throughout all the multiple nerfings. What this should tell Anet - players in the game who popularize builds and enjoy playing them should be who determines what "fun" is --- not fansite posters who complain about anything common that they are incapable of beating. ie: IWAY or any of the other things that were nerfed mostly just because they were popular and fansite posters got disgruntled because they couldn't beat them (not because they were overpowered which should be the only reason anything ever gets nerfed). Nerfing every single fun and popular build that comes out makes the players who populate HA in the most numerous amounts, not want to bother playing in HA any more. The players of those builds out-number the complainers about them, so start siding with the players of the builds and keeping their fun intact, not the complainers'.

8. Give 100 fame per win on the HoH map irrespective of consecutive wins prior to it. Winning the "ultimate battle" should have a point. This would give it one.

9. Give emotes for every title. Not really worth the effort to go past R9 seeing as there are no emotes until a ludicrous increase in fame past R9, and even at R12 the emote isn't as dominant as the tiger one.

10. Give more benefits to high-ranked players besides faction cap increase, emotes, and Hero title. An example would be letting them get good skins like Fissure for PVP armor which has been suggested many times before via Faction unlocks. Maybe tie it into Rank also or wins on the HoH map.

11. Make PVP titles like the Hero/Rank one max-able, or at least count towards Kind of a Big Deal or an equivalent Maybe break them down into small groups of title tracks instead of one infinite never-ending one. Not really fair that there is no other title like Kind of a Big Deal which encompasses a R9+ Hero title, especially since realistically the Hero title can never be maxed.

12. Bring back Burial Mounds.

13. Add in new maps and new content to HA.

14. Increase the rewards in HA by a ton. Add new rewards too. A major reason people don't like playing in HA is because the "reward to time/effort/skill/agony investment ratio" is horrendous.

1. It's been stated many times.
2. What's wrong with just the Battle Islands?
3. That's already been suggested.
4. People didn't want heroes in because IT WAS BORING AS HELL. Why put them back in when the majority of HA players agree that the removal of heroes was a GOOD THING. Most people used them to SOLO HA, meaning FAME W/O STARTING A 2 HOUR GROUP UP.
5. That's not really possible, as the modifiers are random. Leave it as it is.
6. Saving for later.
7. Maybe that's why IWAY was nerfed, but most "builds" are nerfed because they're overpowered, not because people are crying about them.
8. 4 wins in halls is 400 fame. That's a LOT. That's R5->R6. And 4 wins in halls isn't that hard.
9. Yes, the tiger looks cooler than the phoenix, but when you see a phoenix what do you think, compared to a tiger? It's fine the way it is - boohoo you can't get your phoenix until rank 12 QQ.
10. I think it's fine.
11. How do you know there's something passed Rank 15. Who knows that there IS a rank 15? Is there a rank 14 yet? (who could prove R15's existance). You don't know there isn't a max because no one has reached R15, which could very, VERY likely be the max.
12. Agreed - BT isn't that fun as a 2nd map, or Scarred Earth if it you skip.
13. Been stated numerous times.
14. A reason people don't HA is because it's a competitive mess, and there are no rewards besides the next rank/emote. If HA is agonizing to you - DON'T PLAY IT.

Navaros · Dec 29, 2006, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by gasmaskman

Most people used them to SOLO HA, meaning FAME W/O STARTING A 2 HOUR GROUP UP.

8. 4 wins in halls is 400 fame. That's a LOT. That's R5->R6. And 4 wins in halls isn't that hard.

14. A reason people don't HA is because it's a competitive mess, and there are no rewards besides the next rank/emote. If HA is agonizing to you - DON'T PLAY IT.

Exactly - being able to solo in HA without waiting 2+ hours to form a decent group is why Heroes in HA were the best thing that ever happened to HA and should still be available as they were. If the majority didn't like Heroes in HA then they wouldn't have been so common in HA.

4 wins in HoH is extremely hard for average players who aren't in a HA-centric Guild which plays together on TS/Vent every night. Winning on the HoH map should mean something for them. If by chance they do win on HoH map - which would require a ton of effort, skill and luck - then they get nothing good for it. Hence there is little motivation to bother trying.

I did stop playing HA due to the agony of waiting around for hours to find a good PUG for it only to then be confronted with the issues outlined in my previous post combined with then losing 3 rounds in and disbanding, thereby wasting several hours of real-time for zero point.

However, the original post is about sharing your thoughts to improve HA, not "do not share your thoughts unless you play HA every day".

The High Lord · Dec 29, 2006, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Didn't bother to read the entire 17 pages, so I'm gonna quickly write down a few points:

Make it 8vs8 again, the game is more suited/balanced for that type of gameplay.
Revamp/bring back a few maps. (Refer to my posts on TGH for ideas.)
Increase rewards for winning HoH. (Fire wand with water magic attributes worth 60 gold as reward for playing 2 hours? Or if you are lucky a sigil worth (only) 5.5 plat these days. I remember when they were worth 50k+)
Keep the levers in Scarred Earth, had some great fun with them.
Keep heroes out. (HA is not HvH.)
As soon as more teams start to play HA again, give an additional 20 fame (or something like that ) per win in HoH, so it actually has some meaning.

gasmaskman · Dec 29, 2006, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Exactly - being able to solo in HA without waiting 2+ hours to form a decent group is why Heroes in HA were the best thing that ever happened to HA and should still be available as they were. If the majority didn't like Heroes in HA then they wouldn't have been so common in HA.

4 wins in HoH is extremely hard for average players who aren't in a HA-centric Guild which plays together on TS/Vent every night. Winning on the HoH map should mean something for them. If by chance they do win on HoH map - which would require a ton of effort, skill and luck - then they get nothing good for it. Hence there is little motivation to bother trying.

I did stop playing HA due to the agony of waiting around for hours to find a good PUG for it only to then be confronted with the issues outlined in my previous post combined with then losing 3 rounds in and disbanding, thereby wasting several hours of real-time for zero point.

However, the original post is about sharing your thoughts to improve HA, not "do not share your thoughts unless you play HA every day".

Soloing HA is good for people who don't HA - but bad for people who do. Heroes brought a lot of PvE'rs into the fray because they were unranked and couldn't find a group. Heroes removed a lot of PvP'rs because of the frustration of fighting people who were herowaying, because, to be honest, fighting heroway is so goddamn boring.

They get the satisfaction that they won in HA and their group name came up. I was in an unranked pug when I was just starting out and we happened to win halls, and nothing dropped for me. It was the best moment I had in the game up to that point.

And, yes, pugging isn't the best way to do HA, which is why you should get a friends list and HA with them. Friends>Pugs.

Mental Leteci · Dec 29, 2006, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Therefore, stop drastically changing the HA game due to the whims of players who post on this board or any fansite board.

So basically, you're saying they shouldn't listen to you either when you whine about it?
Also you said it wrong, IWAY was nerfed cause it was overpowered, it had serious speed stacks which you get from skills, but you don't know anything about it do you?

Short notes:
- bring back 8v8 so we can be more creative and so we could actually counter something
- bring back old Burial Mounds
- make Ghostly Hero move away from AoE spells (this isa smart idea whoever said it)
- at least put exhaustion on Sandstorm or something
- make Song of Concentration block only one interrupt

Spank My Woman · Dec 29, 2006, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Comon 8 vs 8 is the best thing to HA,
new maps,
new modifactions to ha
seigls worth like 30 k each
The new anti 007 system makes it totaly okay to have 8 vs 8 now so no need to worry for a 007

put back hero way... let the n00bs farm a bit of fame, hig hranked players dont make too much fame with heros.. heroways is gg for n00bs

iway was the best thing to HA, vimway should be put back.. 1 melandrum derwish would own vimway... vimway is NOT overpowered since NF came.. its just a fun build as any other build.. i RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing hate HA now.. it was soo much more fun when iwas r 3.. iway was just so fun.. good teams would pawn iway anyway iway is a fun build not overpowred...

S_Serpent · Dec 29, 2006, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

- at least put exhaustion on Sandstorm or something

learn to adapt: stop attacking and move out if it, your not glued to the spot! Its always the same first SF now SS, too many cry babies. Those skills aren't overpowered and don't need nerfs, use ur brains.
Don't pushed the nerfed forever class (elementalists) back under the nerfingstone where they just barely managed to crawl under from since the NF re-instatement to the elementalist as proclaimed to be in the game manual! A.net don't bury the eles back to secondary profession builds what they weren't proclaimed to be by your manuals (biggest example: heal party spammers, and so on): I never read in the manual for elementalist "make sure you have a secondary profession to be a clone of that profession for pvp purposes!"
Counters are richly forseen by the devs.

If SF and SS would constantly win HoH then they are overpowered skill, but just take a look on the actual builds that win HoH, SF and SS builds never get close to those builds.

As for remakes to HoH:

1* Don't listen to the minority of whiners!
2* Instead of nerving try buffing instead
3* Make the rewards better for winning HoH (I personnally like the idea of the so called vanity skins available for pvp chars through factionpoints, among the many possebilities)
4* Have rank emotes for every rank
5* 6vs6 is good as it is, especially with a limit of max 1 hero per player.
6* make it possible for pvp players to use there faction to unlock some of the guildfeatures and add more off those too. Things like this will make the pve-pvp diversity get alot closer and more rewarding. Donate a part of your faction to a pot in the guild with which you can add services, ... just like you would be able to do the same with gold in pve.

Alleji · Dec 29, 2006, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

7. Give 100 fame per win on the HoH map irrespective of consecutive wins prior to it. Winning the "ultimate battle" should have a point. This would give it one.

This makes your entire post sound like a joke... 100 fame is a ****load. I'm r10 and if I get 100 fame in one run, I consider it a great run. But what's this, I got 403 fame for holding halls for a bit? (I skipped there from broken tower) That just makes it worthless. I was basically given free fame and if everyone's given free fame, what's the fun in getting it?

Seriously, 100 fame is such an unreasonable amount... 8 to 9 becomes 28 hall wins.

As for other rewards, I agree. Sigils shouldn't be worth 7k. Fix the price at 30, 50, or whatever. You're buying a friggin island. With a castle on it. How is that worth 7k? A glob of ectoplasm is worth 8k. :/ The rare drops could be improved as well... perhaps improve the quality (chance of getting a rare skin) based on how many times you held in a row in such a way that overall rate of crystallines and other uber-expensive items will decrease, but the teams that held the longest have a much greater than average chance of getting them. Better rewards for better teams.

If right now the chance of crystalline dropping is 0.01% (numbers of the top of my head), first halls win you'll have 0% chance of getting it, but when a team holds 10 in a row, the chest will have 1% chance of dropping a crystalline. 20 in a row for 5%. Since very few teams ever hold 20 rounds in a row, that would decrease the overall supply and give it to the best players.

Of course, this system is only reasonable if there's no crap like lameparaway in the megame, or one team is going to hold 50 rounds, come out with a bag full of dwarven axes and b0rk the economy to hell.

Kratos Angel · Dec 29, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Well I just want to give my opinion on some of the new ideas that some persons found :

* I really find the idea of being able to wear a 15k until fow armor with a pvp character with the rank nice. It should be add.

*The idea of giving 100 fame or even a bit more fame for winning HoH just suck, you'll meet only camp builds and blood spike

* Therefore, a reward for all the members of the team who wins HoH would be really nice, making sigils up to 20 or 30k too.

* Nerfing heroes was definitely necessary, never forget that GW isn't a solo game, that was stupid imo

* Nerfing skills like sandstorm would be an error, it just pwns iway

* Nerfing the anti interrupt parangon skill (Song of Concentration )would be an idea, indeed

leguma · Dec 29, 2006, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Serpent

learn to adapt: stop attacking and move out if it, your not glued to the spot!

I'm not, but guess what, the hero is. Furthermore, he is spamming his attacks constantly, and if it's a 3way you're looking at an obscene amount of damage. In 8v8 with 3 monk backline it was not an issue, in 6v6 it is. If the prot drops the hero goes SPLAT...

As for Song of Concentration, I'm not saying nerf it, but I will say BALLANCE it. As it is right now, it is a non atributed skill, regardless of it actually being in the command like and is very easy to fit into any build without having to invest anything in it. For what it does with the way altars are in HA it seems a little much. And for those who are going to say "just interupt it" all I can say is try a 3way versus the new 3 paragon teams... which one of them has it? The command paragon... oh wait.. nvm.

Alazare · Dec 29, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

What should change:
1. Song Of Concentration is just a bit lame.
2. I agree on the subject of sigils. They are underpriced and something should be done about that.
3. Sandstorm is a bit overpowered, it just does too much damage to many players in a vast area. Nowday people have up to 2 or even more E/Me's echoing it. Now thats just sick.
4. New maps would be nice
5. Dont change HoH, it should remain an altar map. It simply makes the most sence.
6. Fame you get for winnig halls should not be changed imo, but if it were it should not be 100 fame per win. Perhaps 20 fame for winnig it would be quite enough.
8. bring 8v8 back (this is a MUST)

leguma · Dec 29, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alazare

What should change:
2. I agree on the subject of sigils. They are underpriced and something should be done about that.

This is perhaps by far the easiest thing to fix... just make the Guild Hall NPCs cost sigils instead of just gold. From the point of view of those aquiring them it makes no difference if they pay 100K for a mat trader, or simply buy 4 sigils, for them it is the exact same goldsink, only instead of the gold being purged, it goes back to the People making the sigils.
There is no way that A.net is going to be artificially raising the price on a comodity that naturally tends to tank. After all, it is normal for sigils to cost next to nothing, how many people do not have a GH? By giving the sigil aditional functionality, the price of it will naturally jump up and stay up longer.

Alazare · Dec 29, 2006, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by leguma

This is perhaps by far the easiest thing to fix... just make the Guild Hall NPCs cost sigils instead of just gold. From the point of view of those aquiring them it makes no difference if they pay 100K for a mat trader, or simply buy 4 sigils, for them it is the exact same goldsink, only instead of the gold being purged, it goes back to the People making the sigils.
There is no way that A.net is going to be artificially raising the price on a comodity that naturally tends to tank. After all, it is normal for sigils to cost next to nothing, how many people do not have a GH? By giving the sigil aditional functionality, the price of it will naturally jump up and stay up longer.

/sign

Adding additional functionality to sigils is a good idea.

Yunas Ele · Dec 29, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alazare

What should change:
1. Song Of Concentration is just a bit lame.

So is having 2 seeking arrow rangers sitting on your ghost for 2 mins. I have played cg ranger and pd mes multiple times and its really lame how easy it was to hold... honestly its not that hard to prevent SoC from getting up. Savage ghost and then d-shot SoC. Alternately if they have a good paragon who can stay obstructed from you, just have a "non-dedicated interupt" like a warrior, d-blow or shock it... with 8 adren they can't use it very often. Sure if they take like 3 copies of it then ya its lame but I haven't seen anyone take more than 1 copy...

Other than that I agree with your changes...

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Dec 29, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Skimmed the above posts as I don't have time to read them all. @ the people saying sandstorm is overpowered: just wait until you have a three monk backline again- everything will be fine (however in 6v6 I don't think its overpowered either, maybe just needs a bit of tweaking). Sigils don't necessarily need to be like 30 or 50k, but anything below 20, MAYBE 15 is absolutely ridiculous (as alleji pointed out, you're buying an ISLAND). Giving extra fame for winning halls is stupid unless it is ~5 extra a win MAX. If they gave a 100 fame extra, we'd have several hundred, maybe thousand r12s by now, I'd be r9.... its too much and too easy.

Yunas Ele · Dec 29, 2006, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Giving extra fame for winning halls is stupid unless it is ~5 extra a win MAX. If they gave a 100 fame extra, we'd have several hundred, maybe thousand r12s by now, I'd be r9.... its too much and too easy.

Not to mention it would make playing earlier maps utterly pointless. If they make that change just remove all maps b4 hoh. After you beat zaishen you wait in vault 'till you can go to hoh.

Nurse With Wound · Dec 29, 2006, 05:20 PM // 17:20

My opinions about recently discussed things.

100 fame per HOH win is crazy. That would encourage massive hallskipping. Also winning and holding isnt that hard. No fame bonus is needed for Hall victory, current fame system is working fine imo, and its not a problem at all.

I agree on the sigils price. It should be fixed at at least 20-30k per one. Also every person in the HOH winning team should get an item from the chest ( not sigil of course,they current drop rate is fine ).

8v8 is obvious, everyone with a brain and HA experience wants it back.

I wont comment the idea of going back to no hero limit, the censoring script would make it unreadable anyway.

New maps would be a godsend, if not, bring burial mounds back.

I fail to see the problem with SoC, but I do agree that HOH should remain an altar map.

Maybe increasing HOH timer to the old value would be good as well? What do you think guys?

PS
Quoting Axe from the other thread, because what he has written is so goddamn right

Quote:

Originally Posted by axe

HA experience is the true reward, not the emotes and certainly not more titles. When you are Rank 0 you think Rank 3 is godly, when you hit Rank 6 you realize that its a bunch of crap. Playing with friends and playing and winning against top ranked teams and famous players is where its at. Thats why Heroes sucked the fun out of HA, sure titles are nice as a benchmark for success, but its not what HA is about.

hendrix is vox · Dec 29, 2006, 05:36 PM // 17:36

well at first a big nerf of nightfall; for exemple Avatar of grenth (make a during time lower or something) sandstorm (nerf dmg or something) song of concentration (cancel 1 interupt) ; make more counter for paragorn , bring back burials , nerf searing flames (nerf dmg). That willl be very good but the best will be to bring back 8vs8

. But please make a really fast nerf of nightfall skills because HA is became very boring when you see build like 3 sansdtorm 1 dervish grenth block all on hero gg you win ...

greenlantern · Dec 29, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

1. Bring Back 8vs8 please
2. Winning Halls is rewarding, but the chest use to be covited and it isn't so much now... buff the chest in halls
3. push scarred earth back a few notches, it is not worth 1-2 fame.
4. More maps.