Curse

OneArmedScissor · Mar 15, 2007, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomway Ftw

Personal experience = almost everyone who I know of that has experience in HA prefers 8v8, almost everyone who regularly posts in this section of the forum supports 8v8. You can try to deny it if you want but the simple fact is that 8v8 is a better format for reasons that have been posted 100 times, experienced people see these reasons and understand that the game moe should be 8v8.

It is foolish and wrong to apply your private life and experiences to a public issue. Again, how can you possibly say that the majority of the people who voted for 6v6 don't play HA? How can you speak on behalf of all those individuals when you have yet to even ask 5% of those who voted for 6v6 if they even play HA? What legitimate and valid evidence do you have that suggests that the majority of 6v6 voters do not participate in HA? Oh your personal experience of people that you blatantly imply voted for 8v8, is that what makes you an authority to speak for those previous mentioned individuals? Sorry, but you're, again, blatantly implying that those individuals you know voted for 8v8. As such, this only hence succeeds in making your statements appear as nothing more than asinine and foolish. One can reasonably infer that you are just as asinine and foolish as well.

I am not trying to deny anything here. I am simply making it clear to you and others that your statements regarding individuals that voted for 6v6 do not HA are, at best, fatuous. Moreover, it is not a "fact" that 8v8 is better. Rather the discussion between the 6v6 vs. 8v8 issue is nothing more than a difference of opinions and should not ever be elevated to level of fact that one is better than the other.

Total: 2830

For 6v6: 34.7%
For 8v8: 49.8%
Undecided: 15.5%

You mean to tell me that you interviewed the 982.01 people who voted for 6v6 and determined that the majority of them do not HA? Moreover, did you interview the 1409.34 people who voted for 8v8 and determined that they, and all of them (yes, you are implying that all those who voted for 8v8 do in fact HA.) participate in HA? Oh let me guess, it doesn't matter because of your personal experiences, which should never be applied to a public issue as such.

I nominate Randomway Ftw as the offical forum sh*tter.

Bread Fan · Mar 15, 2007, 04:55 AM // 04:55

It is quite apparent that a lot of PvP players don't frequent this site or others for that matter. Most just stick to their Guild sites or iq site. PvE players frequent GWG, GWO, TGH for the sake of auctioning off items. So while browsing these forums the PvE players see a new poll and just vote randomly without actually understanding what may be better for the sake of the game. Don't get me wrong sure they have the right to vote since they own the game but they are doing it out of ignorance and those votes influence the outcome. I have spoke to PvP players on vent and suggested for them to register and vote but most don't want to be bothered.

tomcruisejr · Mar 15, 2007, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor

Moreover, did you interview the 1409.34 people who voted for 8v8 and determined that they, and all of them (yes, you are implying that all those who voted for 8v8 do in fact HA.) participate in HA?

I think 67.890% of the total ppl for 8vs8 are those who quit the game already and just took their time off from WoW or 1 hour Fury Beta to cast their votes.

milan · Mar 15, 2007, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tea Girl

Yes.

R6 = 1K fame, so ~4 fame a day for the past 8 months if you are pugging? One can probably get their wolf <1 month with non-pugs. (I'm not talking about low-quality hardcore "farmers" that get 3 fame/run and just spend 20hrs/day playing HA. I am talking about high-quality groups that gets >70 fames/run for like i.e. 3 sunday mornings and like 2 wednesday nights.)

Then ofcus you think 6v6 is better because you probably got your r6 via the 6v6 system (last 8 months) and you never really exprienced 8v8. You need to understand that most (not all) HA-ers who are "whinning"/leaving (because Anet ignored them for awhile) about 6v6 are exprienced 8v8-ers and most of them got their kitty a year ago or so.

HA is not a middle child between RA/TA and GVG because it has its unique (used to be fun) competitive 8v8 sytem since the birth of GW. If anet wants a middle child then they might as well make a new area for 6v6 and leave HA alone. Why fix something that was not broken?

Why all the assumptions here? Do I have a hidden webcam in my computer room where you can see when and where I play?

I started HA'ing about 19 months ago, had a long break from GW came back about a month before the 6v6 was implemented. I'm a casual HA'er now and and PvE as well. I've gained ranks 4-6 with the 6v6 system. Yes I Pug for the most part althoug there are people on my friends list that I occasionally get together with.

A question for you guys. You're all up in arms because of the 6v6 situation and believe you are 100% correct in your demands. If HA does revert to 8v8 how would you respond if a campaign was launched by those who prefer 6v6 to go back to it?

Just because you may believe 8v8 is better than 6v6, that doesn't make it so for everyone.

Opinions are like a**eholes, everyone has one.

Undressed · Mar 15, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tea Girl

Why fix something that was not broken?

That's the typical HA scrub's answer. 8vs8 was a spike/scrubfest (which its design so promoted), of course nobody's pointing at himself so how could it be broken?

Blaming PvEr's for HA's "demise" is the best joke about this thread. Bring it on.

Alternatively get a job and learn that profit is king, and since PvErs are Anets best supporters, you and your scrubmates better get 10 PvP-Editions of GW each to even out the "imbalance" or stop demanding "improvements", because you are cleary NOT adding to the business.

Master Ketsu · Mar 15, 2007, 07:07 AM // 07:07

I still say the smartest way for anet to have done this, was to hold a poll INSIDE Heroes ascent itself, and to allow everyone who was rank 1 or higher to cast their vote in game...1 vote per account.

Lord Mendes · Mar 15, 2007, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

I think 67.890% of the total ppl for 8vs8 are those who quit the game already and just took their time off from WoW or 1 hour Fury Beta to cast their votes.

These "people" constituted a great part of HA, and you know this because you were grinding alongside them. When these people left, HA turned into a ghost town, and the decision to revert back to 8v8 is an attempt to bring these people back. These people are allowed to vote, since the change is aimed at them. These people were the hardcore tombs dwellers (minus the fame farmers), and when they quit HA turned into a boring scrub-fest due to the lack of competition and prominent HA guilds.
This is like saying "If you live outside the US, then you are not allowed to vote for your next president". What's funny is that the people that have quit HA outnumber those which have remained.
Let's look at my case: I enjoyed HA more than any other aspect of the game. After HA turned 6v6 I hung around for 4 or 5 months, but then slowly lost interest as my guild stopped HAing. GvG is not my thing so please don't even go there. Now I would come back and buy the new chapter if HA was still fun, but I sure as hell won't if it remains the same.
See? I am a customer generating extra sales aswell, therefore I should be allowed to vote.

Riotgear · Mar 15, 2007, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undressed

Alternatively get a job and learn that profit is king, and since PvErs are Anets best supporters, you and your scrubmates better get 10 PvP-Editions of GW each to even out the "imbalance" or stop demanding "improvements", because you are cleary NOT adding to the business.

I have yet to comprehend why "PvEers" would be voicing their opinion on something that they don't play, or how Anet would benefit from making changes based on the opinions of people that the changes will not affect.

fb2000 · Mar 15, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor

..........

dude why are you being a prick, the pool results clearly show 8v8 got more votes.. all you long posts just pick on other ppl, when they are trying to tell their own opinions, which would seem to actually be right on the track (refer to the pool results). and i cant say your posts are worth reading :P (probably applies to this post as well

)

what does asinine mean btw

baaba · Mar 15, 2007, 10:19 AM // 10:19

I actually have more than 1 user name account on other forums so guess what I did? Kekeke.

Please don't use those polls/votes to determine anything. Hell. Even the government election is way off. There are too many factors to count into when you look in this crap.

As long as they remove the stupid Kill Count, Relic Run and Capture Point in HoH, I am down with anything.

tomcruisejr · Mar 15, 2007, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

These "people" constituted a great part of HA, and you know this because you were grinding alongside them. When these people left, HA turned into a ghost town, and the decision to revert back to 8v8 is an attempt to bring these people back. These people are allowed to vote, since the change is aimed at them. These people were the hardcore tombs dwellers (minus the fame farmers), and when they quit HA turned into a boring scrub-fest due to the lack of competition and prominent HA guilds.
This is like saying "If you live outside the US, then you are not allowed to vote for your next president". What's funny is that the people that have quit HA outnumber those which have remained.
Let's look at my case: I enjoyed HA more than any other aspect of the game. After HA turned 6v6 I hung around for 4 or 5 months, but then slowly lost interest as my guild stopped HAing. GvG is not my thing so please don't even go there. Now I would come back and buy the new chapter if HA was still fun, but I sure as hell won't if it remains the same.
See? I am a customer generating extra sales aswell, therefore I should be allowed to vote.

The point you're not getting sir is that people assume that those who voted for 6vs6 plays Guild War (PVE GVG, AB ,TA,RA, ROLEPLAYING, w/e) but not the HA part of it. And most , which i assume,of of those who voted for 8vs8 don't play Guild Wars anymore.

So who will you listen to, those who play the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOin game or those who don't even enjoy playing it and have quit. Think please.

Lord Mendes · Mar 15, 2007, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

The point you're not getting sir is that people assume that those who voted for 6vs6 plays Guild War (PVE GVG, AB ,TA,RA, ROLEPLAYING, w/e) but not the HA part of it. And most , which i assume,of of those who voted for 8vs8 don't play Guild Wars anymore.

So who will you listen to, those who play the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOin game or those who don't even enjoy playing it and have quit. Think please.

Hmm interesting point. Those who play the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing game will buy chapter 4 anyway because, well, they play the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing game. Those who played HA and left the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing game might buy the next chapter if HA goes back to 8v8, because the main reason they left was because HA turned to 6v6.
Changing back to 8v8 seems worthwhile from a business perspective, seeing as how this will generate them more sales.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO

Randomway Ftw · Mar 15, 2007, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undressed

That's the typical HA scrub's answer. 8vs8 was a spike/scrubfest (which its design so promoted), of course nobody's pointing at himself so how could it be broken?

Blaming PvEr's for HA's "demise" is the best joke about this thread. Bring it on.

Why do you even bother posting in this forum? It's obvious that you don't give a rat's ass about the state of HA, and are just here to trash talk the people who actualy enjoyed it.

tomcruisejr · Mar 15, 2007, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

Hmm interesting point. Those who play the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing game will buy chapter 4 anyway because, well, they play the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing game. Those who played HA and left the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing game might buy the next chapter if HA goes back to 8v8, because the main reason they left was because HA turned to 6v6.
Changing back to 8v8 seems worthwhile from a business perspective, seeing as how this will generate them more sales.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO

And we all know that the number of HA players is very small compared to PVE+GVG players, aight?

Lord Mendes · Mar 15, 2007, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

And we all know that the number of HA players is very small compared to PVE+GVG players, aight?

And they will stay for the PvE+GvG, and HAers will stay for the HA.
Would you rather have an empty, or somewhat full HA, knowing that people are playing guildwars just for HA?

Scout, I know you like being a non-conformist and going against the croud and all that, but please read my post and don't interpret it the way you want.
Here, I will explain it:
1. The overall population of HA has decreased, therefore the changes were not a success.
2. The people currently playing HA also enjoy PvE and/or GvG, and HA isnt the only thing that is making them buy the next chapters, whereas those that have quit HA played gw solely for HA and would buy the next chapters if HA were fun.
3. Therefore those that played guildwars for HA will be the ones making a difference in terms of sales, no matter how little it may be.

tomcruisejr · Mar 15, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

And they will stay for the PvE+GvG, and HAers will stay for the HA.
Would you rather have an empty, or somewhat full HA, knowing that people are playing guildwars just for HA?

When did HA have an empty district? I don't remember. Few to ok number of players, yes but empty?

I don't care about HA anymore so whatever. All I'm pointing is that most of the people who voted for 8vs8 HA, based on my RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing assumption, are RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing people who already quit the game and why listen to those people when there are existing Guild Wars players who want to direct the game according to what they want.

Lord Mendes · Mar 15, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

When did HA have an empty district? I don't remember. Few to ok number of players, yes but empty?

2 districts in prime vs 4 districts in prime is a significant decrease. Empty comparatively.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

I don't care about HA anymore so whatever. All I'm pointing is that most of the people who voted for 8vs8 HA, based on my RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing assumption, are RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing people who already quit the game and why listen to those people when there are existing Guild Wars players who want to direct the game according to what they want.

Well, technically we didn't "quit". I for one will return if the vote goes my way, and I know plenty of people who will aswell. If we will return, therefore generate future sales, then we deserve to be counted otherwise the numbers will end up scewed.
The only reason I quit as opposed to people who stayed is that HA was the only mode that I really enjoyed.
Look, HA had many problems, but 8v8 was never one of them.

Nadia Roark · Mar 15, 2007, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

If you want to talk from a business standpoint, their business model revolves around selling new chapters. As with any business, devoting resources to customer satisfaction is more effective than devoting resources to advertising. Retaining customers is cheaper than attracting new ones.

Right, but I would be surprised if there are going to be more than one or two new expansions. "Endgame" development and general finalization of game areas is likely to be creeping into their thoughts. Guild Wars is not the endless source of revenue that is WoW, and it's highly unlikely that we're going to see enough copies of Guild Wars on shelves to make the profit projections for the two anywhere near comparable. The very pricing structure of GW prohibits it from being a perpetual project. Like any other company, ANet will have to move on and make their finishing touches. If they lose out on a couple hundred sales in NA/EU for the last game (or two) it probably wouldn't be the end of the world for them--at least if the end result is they find an arena format that they like and can keep even after they're done writing regular updates for the game. If they were going to monkey around with any of it I'd say they picked the right time on the GW timeline to do it--and there's still plenty of time for it to change back while the community is still reasonably active.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yunas Ele

stuff

I don't mind that people are frustrated, but for many of them I have a difficult time believing they actually expect to force a change by acting the way they do. Many of them have continued to do so (humorously enough) in direct response to my comments, which is a beautiful irony that makes me smile. Kudos to Breadfan especially, who once again eloquently blasts me for stating the "obvious," despite the fact that few (if any) had previously expressed my views; and to "Fb2000" who should probably reread the above paragraph.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Death_From_Above

more stuff

The "parallel" questions you have asked me are obtuse and pointless. The main difference between playing a game and returning a product is that you only pay for the content of the game (which is why it can't be returned once it's opened) whereas you may use a piece of equipment for its functionality. When we buy games there is no guarantee, really, that we will enjoy the content, or that it will even be worth our time. It's a gamble. It's a gamble we chose to take based off of our best guesses and game reviews (and, in my case, based off a lack of monthly fees). If the company ends up doing things that change the content of the game it's their business and hey--if they leave it all munged up and boring it's their business since they own the content of the game and always will.

Also, if there's one thing I've learned in my years on this planet, it's that large bodies of people take a long time to do things. Everything from rock concerts to shuttle lift-offs are usually just the tiniest bit off schedule, due to the nuances of mass organization of which, thankfully, most of us are not aware. I don't know whats taking so long and I'm not thrilled with it either, but when I take a step back from my desk I see a computer screen with a character on it, and two windows on either side showing the real world going by. It puts things into perspective.

coleslawdressin · Mar 15, 2007, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor

It is foolish and wrong to apply your private life and experiences to a public issue. Again, how can you possibly say that the majority of the people who voted for 6v6 don't play HA?

8v8 issue is nothing more than a difference of opinions and should not ever be elevated to level of fact that one is better than the other.

I will stick with the opinion that a lot of people who want 6v6 do not play tombs a lot or never played 8v8. It is NOT a simple 50/50 difference of opinions. The reasoning behind a new 8v8 (not the old altar stuff) is solid. So is the reasoning behind the severe problems with 6v6 as a gameplay mode. The devs need to look at more than just poll numbers.

The reasons for keeping 6v6 have a lot of good arguments against them. The argument to keep 6v6 is nowhere near as strong as the effect of there no longer being a PUG friendly 8v8 mode.

The 6v6 people just have to make more friends or learn how to beat spikes or go back to RA. 8v8 people are left with nothing but GVG and you can't just go do that 24/7 at will.

You can't scientifically prove 8v8 is better, sure. It is my opinion. It is my experience that I have seen very few people who I would consider remotely good at GW want 6v6. It is my experience noticing that most everyone who wants 6v6 is a no-name from a no-name, sub 1000 guild. It is my experience that 6v6 people complain about spikes or IWAY when it is easy for a competent balanced team to beat them quickly.

Not only do you have no real reasoning on the subject, you merely said that our opinions and experiences should not matter? Only poll numbers? Please participate in my poll (link)

OneArmedScissor · Mar 15, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

I think 67.890% of the total ppl for 8vs8 are those who quit the game already and just took their time off from WoW or 1 hour Fury Beta to cast their votes.

Again, you're completely oblivious to the point I was trying to make. There is no possible way to accurately claim that the "67.890% of the total pplz for 8vs8 are those who quit the game" when you have yet to interview a significant portion of those voters. I find it strange that people like yourself want to back up 8v8 with "facts," but when it comes to things like this, you impose your statements as if they're facts when, in actuality, nothing more than speculations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fb2000

dude why are you being a prick, the pool results clearly show 8v8 got more votes.. all you long posts just pick on other ppl, when they are trying to tell their own opinions, which would seem to actually be right on the track (refer to the pool results). and i cant say your posts are worth reading :P (probably applies to this post as well

)

what does asinine mean btw

I'm not being a prick. I'm being a reasonable human being trying to look at the issue objectively instead of making inaccurate claims, etc.
I never once doubted that the results of the poll showed that 8v8 was winning or has won.
My posts aren't picking at people. Rather they are picking at the fallacies and stupidness of their claims. My point is that it is foolish to form such opinions when there is no way to remotely back it up with anything legitimate or valid. Moreover, if you actually read their claims, you would see that they weren't on track what so ever, considering the poll does not show who actually participates in HA and who doesn't.
All these results show is that 8v8 is the preferred form of HA. Any statement or opinion formed passed this result based off the poll, such as 6v6 people don't HA, is simply false and displays nothing more than ignorance on part of the statement maker.