Curse

Gregslot · Feb 21, 2007, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Dudenstein

As far as numbers goes:

6v6 has several advantages that are "outside" team play:
* PUG formation is WAY less painful
* You can run a guild grp with only 6 people on (a frequent occurrence)
Since the HA format relies so heavily on PUGs and impromptu groups, these are significant advantages

However, once you get in, 8v8 is just more fun.

I consider it a tossup and am fine with it either way.

MORE IMPORTANTLY

I'd like to reiterate the sentiments of previous posters to:
* Return Broken Tower and Courtyard to their previous objectives
* Keep HoH the rotating objective (including Killcount)

Enough said...

Im tired of seeing spike teams, they ruin all the fun.
6 versus 6 is the best option.

DreamWind · Feb 21, 2007, 02:57 PM // 14:57

I find it interesting that people are saying "since the game is balanced for 8v8, HA should be 8v8". History has shown that the game has almost never been balanced around HA, but GvG instead. I don't think the party size of HA has any bearing on skill balancing, and if it did song of concentration would have been nerfed as soon as it was made.

I want 8v8 back, but more skill balances must be made because of HA. If we just leave it then HA is a broken mess.

Also, I don't like the idea of putting HoH back to strictly holding altars. Here is why...most people are complaining about spike builds now, but if we put HoH back to holding then it will turn into mostly holding builds which is similarly not fun. I think the maps before HoH should go back to old forms, but HoH itself should remain multiobjective (minus kill count).

Also, somebody earlier suggested the idea of a new map where a 4v4 split was required at the beginning or something. I really thought that was a great idea. New maps ftw.

Cador · Feb 21, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23

I agree dream.

I would LOVE 8v8 back however I would like to note that if 8v8 means B-spike/Iway teams every other map id rather have 6v6

Trevor Reznik · Feb 21, 2007, 03:25 PM // 15:25

A.net has a choice between 1) 8v8-keeping the old HA community happy (which many believed was withering) or 2) 6v6-trying to bring in new people (and possibly failing, making the situation worse). Of course, if a.net actually could devote a programmer/map artist to new HA maps / objectives / rewards, both of these could be satisfied, but that solution seems unattainable.

dgb · Feb 21, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

History has shown that the game has almost never been balanced.

Fixed your line for you.

Cass · Feb 21, 2007, 03:33 PM // 15:33

I think the forum may have swallowed my strong 8v8 vote, but that's what I support of course. I have reiterated the arguments many times already, I see no point to repeat them here.

JR is right by the way. And HA is dying fast while you sit around and make one ill-founded change after the other. 6v6 was hated. Heroes were hated. Killcount is hated. How long has this been going on now?

I may be preaching for my own choir here but I must also add that I think that time spent in HA should be a factor in these issues. The posts and votes by 3-hour HA veterans ("they won't let me in their Rxxx++++ team!") and emote-envious GvG players ("6v6 is better so we can fool around if we dont have 8 for gvg, HA is for fools anyway") have an undue bias. No, HA should not be the shielded playground of jaded Tiger Folk, but stop for a minute and think about how much time the naysaying PvE'er will spend in HA after he's had his way about letting heroes in. 1 hour a week? 2? maybe? That will not fill HA back up.

undeadgun · Feb 21, 2007, 03:34 PM // 15:34

been noticed that 8v8 70-80% of the team are rit spike, and now 6v6 70-80% teams are Dual BoA sins, which one u guys think is worse? i chose rit spike, so yea, 6v6 is my way:>

infymys · Feb 21, 2007, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by undeadgun

been noticed that 8v8 70-80% of the team are rit spike, and now 6v6 70-80% teams are Dual BoA sins, which one u guys think is worse? i chose rit spike, so yea, 6v6 is my way:>

And I don't suppose you've noticed that in the later days of the test that balanced was starting to take over.

undeadgun · Feb 21, 2007, 03:43 PM // 15:43

the BoA one is called "balanced", check out in HA id1, see how many groups LF BoA, or how many BoA LFG:>

The Dead Nikolai · Feb 21, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duelb0t

4 ppls => TA
6 ppls => HA
8 ppls => GB

its logic, working and simple. let it 6vs6 pls.

Really agree with that.

Snookums · Feb 21, 2007, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Gaile Gray

Please bring back 8v8 your my only hope~

The evil 6v6 should have another battle isle, we always hav a spot for more battle isle's! On a side note bring back ToPK and delete HA. ToPK was so much better then the lava area that hurts my eyes.

tomcruisejr · Feb 21, 2007, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bread Fan

Anet you can take this game and stuff it up your ass. I am tired of being a guinea pig. If you have a testing team, fire them. It's quite obvious what HA players want. Please post PvE polls in HA next time so PvP players can influence the outcome.

ask A.Net to pay you coz you are testing their unfinished product?

Glints Bane · Feb 21, 2007, 06:16 PM // 18:16

I strongly prefer 8v8. I belive 8v8 is better because people of low ranks(such as myself) have a better chance to get into groups and learn more about Heros Ascent. In 6v6 No one would give me the time of day just because I don't have a high rank(even though I'm a good player and have been told so by many). Because of this bias I stopped trying to get in to HA groups and stopped PvPing until last week when it was made again into 8 man groups. But now I'm back to PvE because HA is biased yet again.

Demoon · Feb 21, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

If Anet was to revert back to the 8v8 party size, there would need to be another set of skill balances. The problem with the first set is that they were based soloely on 6v6 HA and GvG. By balancing the skills around these 2 forms of PvP, an underlying set of skills have becoming unreasonably inbalanced.

The biggest changes that Anet needs to fix to the current meta is taking away power from the Ritualists and fixing Soul Reaping. Why is it that people just can't run a monk backline? Because SR is broken making the people who can't monk able to spam their heals and keep both their team and Hero up. The nerf to Jagged was a start, but some other method needs to be proposed in order to fix the exploitation of SR in PvP. Back to the Ritualists, how can you not say a spike is imbalanced when it can spike every 5 seconds and do close to 1,000 damage?

As for map changes, I could offer only suggestions that I have agreed with from other players. Kill Count was a good idea but has been implemented wrongly, and because of this most of the time 1 team of the 3 ends up being pushed into their spawn and farmed for points. As it looks there is no real way to salvage the idea unless you take it into a 1v1 perspective.

So the fix to both Broken Tower and Courtyard is that I would put it back to holding, however implement the new holding concept that is in halls. Every 30 seconds team holding gains 1 point with the 1 min resurrection at the teams respective shrine.

Scarred Earth, put it back into the line-up (more maps = longer runs) however take out the levels and implement and a new set of rules. Play 2 sets of 1v1 kill count up to a score of 10-15. The 2 winning teams then meet in the middle for either a 2nd set of kill count or an annihilation round.

Hall of Heroes. Make the change back to 5 team map, however once again make the set of rules change. The 2 set of 1v1's each do a kill count instead of annihilation for a set amount of time. The winning teams go to face the holding team in the same alter concept put on new Broken/Courtyard (30 sec = pt).

OzzO · Feb 21, 2007, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

This poll is utterly pointless.

You are asking people to judge whether or not they like 8v8 with what are still unfinished and very sketchy win mechanics, which still need a lot of work and polishing before you can hope to see them enjoyed fully. Coupled with this your week of testing was plagued by the imbalance of certain skills. Weighed up against this as an alternative you have the memory of 6v6 with the old flawed win condition, and again: balance issues that had a strong negative effect on play in Heroes Ascent.

I have faith that the more intelligent posters here might be able to look past these issues and make an objective and well thought out decision, but the vast majority wont. It is ridiculous to expect people to make a sound decision either way untill you actually address the other issues with HA that have a large impact on the impression given.

That said - I did argue that 8v8 should be implimented before the other mechanics changes were added, but that was because the skill balance within Guild Wars is focused on 8v8 play - so that is by far the best base from which to experiment with other changes to gameplay.

I would honestly consider locking this trash if I thought it would make a difference.

/signed

my grandfather always used to say, eat your plate before you do the dishes. so it might be a good idea to balance the skills properly first, and then start asking the community about their -experiences- of the mechanics

gr. OzzO

Alleji · Feb 21, 2007, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

Ritspikes won't disappear with 6v6, everything is the same.

Well, I haven't seen a single ritspike yesterday and I played tombs for a good 5 hours. In fact, I've seen only two spike teams, both rspike.

So, yeah, I think ritspikes disappeared in 6v6.

Nurse With Wound · Feb 21, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

I voted 8v8, but sadly, even though I enjoyed test week much more than the previous, spirit-soul reaping driven 6v6 meta, the "new" 8v8 wasnt exactly what I was hoping.

The two things contributed to its mild, at best, success. ( not mentioning beta stage of all the new victory conditions, 8v8 was tested in broken game balance with questionable, at best, changes to HA maps - on a side note im still waiting for my permanent beta tester pay-check)

1) Kill count mechanics - promotes spike builds, because that is the only way you can be sure the kill is yours and its done fast. And those two are the most important factors of sucess in kill count maps. Degen / shutdown teams are at serious disadvantage at those maps, because they are simply not efficient enough - worst yet, sometimes their shutdown helps the spike team to kill even faster.
Also whatever Gaile was trying to say about it, the kills CAN be stolen , this is a fact i've seen it tens of times..... ]

This is the sole purpose of spike sucess, without killcount maps, the test would look different, because in reality, pure spike teams are very weak, and easily beaten - the killcount mechanic favours them though.

2) Nightfall - the 3rd expasion brought so many broken, imbalanced skills its not even funny. I wont even mention the names of those, because everyone who does some pvp at decent levels knows what are the problematic skills. Of course those broken skills, and overall imbalance impacted Heroes Ascent as well. There are some builds ( rit spike to give an example ), that are so ridiculously overpowered ( look at damage/cooldown/ cast time of the skills used by them, and the protection they get from spirits and impossible to remove weapon spells ), that you have to be hardcore balanced fan to not play them, as they give easy victories over inexperienced teams.
Broken skills, broken game balance propomote gimmicks like that.

I miss late factions HA meta :-(

Saying that I still stand where I was... 8v8 allows to experiment with builds more, allowing us to prepare for most challenges in HA maps. 6v6 is just rock/paper/scissors which i hate.

Please tho... Kill count has to go ( at least from broken tower ), and more importantly,
BALANCE YOUR GAME ALREADY.

PS. I dont know if this was mentioned before, but soul reaping should not work with spirits and minions. Discuss.

Mental Leteci · Feb 21, 2007, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

Well, I haven't seen a single ritspike yesterday and I played tombs for a good 5 hours. In fact, I've seen only two spike teams, both rspike.

So, yeah, I think ritspikes disappeared in 6v6.

I faced them on almost every map (almost). I don't know what time you play or are you American or European.

EDIT: I've just read your post juniordash and I love you (in a friendly way ^^). What you said is what everyone thinks.

Roguy · Feb 21, 2007, 07:05 PM // 19:05

I voted 8vs8 strongly....or /resign....

Frank Dudenstein · Feb 21, 2007, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurse With Wound

PS. I dont know if this was mentioned before, but soul reaping should not work with spirits and minions. Discuss.

You would be seriously impacting a core pve build (overpowered as it is...)

The solution is actually so simple, I can't believe they have not implemented it yet:

When a spirit or minion dies ONLY the master gains it's Soul Reaping benefit.

Voila ... you are done ... Minionmasters can continue making thier armies .. but you avoid the stupid stacking effects that plague PvP.