Curse

Blame the Monks · Feb 23, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

I've escaped mobs on numerous occasions, and I've been able to stay up against YAA pests so long that they give up. :P

Congrats, you managed to run away. This is a win for the other guys, as they now cap unopposed while you try to meet back up with your team.

As for regularly surviving as a lone monk against a war, an ass, and a burning arrow...you need to apply to EviL. They have been looking for you for a long time. How exactly does a monk survive against three high damage physicals with KDs, multiple interrupts, snares, and an antistance? You prot yourself to hell, they switch targets until your energy is gone. You stance up, they blow it. You run away, they snare you. You try to outheal four physicals, you fail. Or if you go into full on doylak stance bitch mode, they ignore you and move on. What is so great about that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

There are blindbots in AB? The main concern is getting rid of DW and cripple. It's also generally more efficient (in terms of time and energy) to just remove poison+bleed than heal through them, unless you're getting spammed with apply.

Who cares about the damage from bleeding? The condition remove is to keep yourself able to kill -- IE, remove the blinds/cripples/weaknesses. Same with hexes. If you are wasting time removing degen instead of removing debilitating hexes/conditions, you need to reconsider your strategy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

If your group is in fact built so well that it'll never suffer any casualties with no healer, good for you. But the reality is that, unless you're running with the mob, you're going to run into SOMETHING that outmatches you, or sooner or later circumstance is just going to fall out of your favor.

True, and also irrelevant. If the fight doesn't favor you, don't fight it. That is common sense. And again, the goal isn't to avoid death no matter the cost, it is to kill/cap more than the opponent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

The reason to take a monk is exactly that, circumstance becomes a lot less of a factor and you can push through just about anything.

Not at all. Monks are much easier to kill than you seem to think. Chances are if they can kill 4 smart, offensive players they can kill three offensive players and a monk. Gale it, shame it, interrupt it, whatever. Four smart players can drop monks die easily with the tools in any of those builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

It's nice to be able to cap the ele shrine without a casualty

If you regularly die trying to fight three air eles, I suggest you try a different game. Like pattycakes. How hard is it to dodge an orb, interrupt, KD, and/or self heal?

Riotgear · Feb 23, 2007, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

Congrats, you managed to run away. This is a win for the other guys, as they now cap unopposed while you try to meet back up with your team.

4 people chasing 1 monk around the battle field = 4 of their players drawn away from doing something important, and 1 of ours. Win for who? If I'm running away from one person, that's an even trade at worst.

The other team capping unopposed while your team regroups? Isn't avoiding that situation my exact justification for bringing a monk?

Quote:

How exactly does a monk survive against three high damage physicals with KDs, multiple interrupts, snares, and an antistance? You prot yourself to hell, they switch targets until your energy is gone. You stance up, they blow it. You run away, they snare you. You try to outheal four physicals, you fail.

Multiple interrupts, anti-stance, and repeated target-switching? Are we still talking about AB? Furthermore, how exactly do you target-switch off a "lone monk?"

In a group fight, you survive it by bringing teammates that don't minimize GW and download porn while their monk is getting beat up.

Quote:

If you are wasting time removing degen instead of removing debilitating hexes/conditions, you need to reconsider your strategy.

Did you miss my comment about cripple and DW completely? Furthermore, degen without even mild healer support tends to mean more self-healing (and time) spent fixing it, which can't instead be devoted to repairing other sources of incoming damage.

Quote:

True, and also irrelevant. If the fight doesn't favor you, don't fight it.

Many times a fight is not immediately an apparent win or loss. Even a fight won can fragment a group with casualties. Perhaps more importantly, the other players are not simply going to step aside and let you cap.

Quote:

That is common sense. And again, the goal isn't to avoid death no matter the cost, it is to kill/cap more than the opponent.

And the purpose of a monk in AB is to avoid group fragmentation and wipes. It's easier to kill more than the opponent when you can actively deny them kills. It's easier to cap more when your party members spend less time watching the timer and running back from the rez shrine.

Quote:

Not at all. Monks are much easier to kill than you seem to think. Chances are if they can kill 4 smart, offensive players they can kill three offensive players and a monk. Gale it, shame it, interrupt it, whatever. Four smart players can drop monks die easily with the tools in any of those builds.

Shame? Smart players? Are we playing the same AB? In all of my AB runs (which totalled 1 mil faction turn-in), I've had Shame cast on me exactly once, Diversion once, and Migraine 3 times.

And 4 players with no healer versus 3+monk at the same skill level = win for the 3+monk. That lesson should have been learned back in RA.

Quote:

If you regularly die trying to fight three air eles, I suggest you try a different game. Like pattycakes. How hard is it to dodge an orb, interrupt, KD, and/or self heal?

I can handle the ele shrine just fine. My teammates, on the other hand....

Blame the Monks · Feb 24, 2007, 02:32 AM // 02:32

I'll get right to your main point:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

And 4 players with no healer versus 3+monk at the same skill level = win for the 3+monk. That lesson should have been learned back in RA.

You learned the wrong lessons from RA.

In RA, the object is to kill the entire other team. The structure of this format gives a huge penalty for deaths -- in fact the first team to take a death generally loses. It doesn't matter if you kill slowly as long as you never die. This is why TA teams tend to focus on simply outlasting the other guys and are insanely defensive. There is a huge premium on res sigs and defense.

In AB, the object is to get more points. You can get points from kills or caps. Unlike RA/TA, a death is not a bad thing as long as you get more points out of the death than you lose (counting both giving them a point for your death and time not spent capping/killing, etc). This is why there is much less premium on res sigs and defense -- as long as you are doing other things right deaths don't matter -- you won't run out of sigs and lose the game.

So EVEN if a monk team would beat you 4v4, it is irrelevant. The issue is not who could win a 4v4, but who will generate more points. And when you look at it that way, it should become clear. Monks are one of the worst point generators possible. The are usually slow runners. They cannot solo kill anyone or cap a shrine alone. If they aren't healing, they are worthless. The only way he can justify his existence is if he allows his team to get more points than they would otherwise (by not dying, etc).

You argued:

Quote:

[Monks generate more points because] it's easier to kill more than the opponent when you can actively deny them kills. It's easier to cap more when your party members spend less time watching the timer and running back from the rez shrine.

Not at all.

For capping:

Four offensive toons should drop the NPCs more quickly, meaning there is less time between caps. Just don't die. Your team should never die to 3 NPCs. You should be able to wipe 3 NPCs in a matter of seconds with minimal damage, then regen back to full as you wait to cap. It doesn't take much skill to outfight an NPC. If they teammates can't do that, boot them. Its that simple.

For fighting:

For 1v1 fights, you don't need a monk (by definition). If you can't win the 1v1, don't fight it. In 4v4, you can very often monk stomp and wipe a team. A lot of teams effectively fight you 3v4 because they lost a straggler, have a stance tank, etc. Pick your fights and only fight when you can win. Otherwise stall by capping until you can. In herd v herd, you can almost always stomp the monk or ignore it (by attacking people not in his party). And again, it doesn't matter if you die, only if you can get more points than you lose.

Conclusion:

For capping, offensive teams > monk. For solo fighting, offensive teams > monk. In 1v1 type fights, four offensive toons > a monk. For group fights, picking opportune times to fight (or not) eliminates the need for a healer (even a 1 to 1 trade is ok if you are winning). A monk can often generate a lot of points in a herd v herd or 4v4, but you can always avoid unfavorable group fights. This is why monks aren't valuable in AB -- they aren't a threat to generate points and are not necessary to get points through any method. Regardless of how effective they may be in other formats, in AB they don't earn their keep by earning more points than an offensive toon would.

Riotgear · Feb 24, 2007, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

I'll get right to your main point:

You learned the wrong lessons from RA.

In RA, the object is to kill the entire other team. The structure of this format gives a huge penalty for deaths -- in fact the first team to take a death generally loses. It doesn't matter if you kill slowly as long as you never die. This is why TA teams tend to focus on simply outlasting the other guys and are insanely defensive. There is a huge premium on res sigs and defense.

The cost of death is irrelevant in the issue at hand, which is that in a 4v4 skirmish, a group with a monk is much more likely to win. It's simply too easy to focus-fire and overwhelm crappy self-heals. In RA/TA, suffering deaths is much more taxing, yes, but deaths caused are also more rewarding, balancing it out. The point is, one group will get wiped, and the other will not. The result is different, but having a group not wipe is desirable either way.

Quote:

The issue is not who could win a 4v4, but who will generate more points.

Sitting on the ground dead and running back from the rez shrines does not generate points.

Quote:

Four offensive toons should drop the NPCs more quickly, meaning there is less time between caps.

Wiping the NPCs barely takes one player, much less three. You'll save 2 seconds at most. Most of the time delays in AB are from other groups getting in the way.

Quote:

In 4v4, you can very often monk stomp and wipe a team.

Kiting and devoting 2 skills to self-defense > monk-stomp.

Quote:

Pick your fights and only fight when you can win.

Like I said, sometimes circumstance will work against you, sometimes backup will arrive, sometimes you misjudge your opponents, sometimes you just get outplayed, and sometimes you just need to take a risk. And as I've said before, a fight that's won is not neccessarily a fight that's won without casualties.

Quote:

In herd v herd, you can almost always stomp the monk or ignore it (by attacking people not in his party).

Oh damn, they can tell who's not in my party!? Not that it matters, I can watch what's going on well enough to heal people not in my party, and running into a mob of enemies just to attempt to stomp a monk = death.

CassiusDrehyg · Feb 24, 2007, 09:12 AM // 09:12

The only tip I can give you for AB is:

1) Don't waste your time. Proceed directly to Team Arenas, Heroes' Ascent or GvG. The players in AB are, 99% of the time, awful. Since you seem to want to get a decent PvP experience, that's my recommendation.

Good luck to you.

Blame the Monks · Feb 24, 2007, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

The cost of death is irrelevant in the issue at hand, which is that in a 4v4 skirmish, a group with a monk is much more likely to win.

No, it is by far the most relevant issue. That is what you don't seem to get -- healing is not valuable unless if earns more points. As you left that entire line of reasoning untouched, I assume you concede this. Given that, the best you can hope for is to argue monks do in fact generate more points despite the fact that they cap and kill more slowly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Kiting and devoting 2 skills to self-defense > monk-stomp.

BTW, how did that app to EviL go?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Like I said, sometimes circumstance will work against you, sometimes backup will arrive, sometimes you misjudge your opponents, sometimes you just get outplayed, and sometimes you just need to take a risk. And as I've said before, a fight that's won is not neccessarily a fight that's won without casualties.

All irrelevant as long as you are right more often than not.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CassiusDrehyg

The only tip I can give you for AB is:

1) Don't waste your time. Proceed directly to Team Arenas, Heroes' Ascent or GvG. The players in AB are, 99% of the time, awful. Since you seem to want to get a decent PvP experience, that's my recommendation.

Good luck to you.

The players in every format are awful. I don't think AB is much worse than the others. Hell, you could probably get better PvP experience fighting the zaishen than fighting in RA/AB/under 200 gvg/most of HA. Even many top 100 guilds are essentially trained monkeys mimicking the few people who know what they are doing.

But that isn't an argument not to play AB. AB is fun, offensive, and gives reasonable rewards in pvE and PvP. I consider it a great halfway house or transition into PvP.

Riotgear · Feb 24, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

No, it is by far the most relevant issue. That is what you don't seem to get -- healing is not valuable unless if earns more points. As you left that entire line of reasoning untouched, I assume you concede this.

Don't put words in my mouth, please. I already said why bringing a healer provides points, because a more survivable, harder-to-fragment group can tolerate a far wider range of circumstances. No group wipes and a significantly lower number of casualties = more time spent capping.

Quote:

BTW, how did that app to EviL go?

I'm pretty sure you don't beat any decent guild's monks by brainlessly training them either. Unless you run Grenth. And I'm pretty sure that my teammates aren't sitting by idle while people attempt to train me.

But this is AB. Don't even need that much. Caster offensives can get mostly gimped with PS, and my teammates will kill them fast anyway. Melee needs nothing more than kiting and perhaps a shield bash. Degen = ZB.

Quote:

All irrelevant as long as you are right more often than not.

Like I said, even victorious battles suffer casualties. The objective is less downtime, for all reasons. And assuming that you'll be on the winning side of the vast majority of 4v4 conflicts (and apparently 3v4, since you're willing to keep moving with casualties) is extremely overoptimistic.

GodofAcid · Feb 25, 2007, 12:10 AM // 00:10

How did this turn into an argument about running away? Getting back to the original topic, I wouldn't worry about being a beginner. You'll soon realize that you have nothing to be embarrassed about, half the people who play AB either have no idea what they're doing or quit 30 seconds in because things aren't going their way. As long as you're not a quitter you're already better than them, and you'll learn quickly what helps your team win and what gets you killed. It usually comes down to a team being on the same page, knowing how to cap and knowing not to run into a mob where they're outnumbered. There's no shame in not knowing what you're doing at first, and no "right" build or method. Like I said, capping is necessary to win in the long run, but even if your group caps really well, if you have 8 other teammates who don't cap, you're probably not going to win. Just dive in head first, go with a build you're comfortable with (not a build someone else suggests) and you'll figure out how to play AB quickly.

erk · Feb 25, 2007, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

I always use something alongside this:

Never use this:
-Tanking wammos (Can't kill)
-Invincible earth eles (Can't kill)
-55 monk >doh<
-Touchers (unless you feel like being an ass, in that case you should make a team with 4 of them

)
-Spirit pooping rit's (other variants are fine, as long as they are mobile)
-Thumpers (try to fit decent self heal on a thumper bar, no go)
-Dedicated nukers (they only clear shrines, but don't kill players)

I have seen pretty much all the above work successfully in a party with the exception of the 55 monk. My Thumper got me to the Ally title in just a few weeks of playing, now I am running a dedicated nuker having many hundreds of wins with her, 1v1 killing is a matter of skill not build, and you shouldn't be wasting time worrying about it in a game where capping is the point. I have seen a tanking wammo hold the Res shrine whilst the rest of his team went about their capping. I have never played a toucher but I believe they work well in either the Vampiric or Starburst form.

The Wiki is still the best starting point, you will find tested nuker, toucher, thumper builds there:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Category:AB_builds

Most do need improvements to get the best out of them, but they are a terrific start.

Perfected Shadow · Feb 28, 2007, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Just jump into it and play your favorite pve class. Follow your team for starters, and you'll develop the skills of critical decision making and leading as you go along. Running is very important, not just capping from point to point but running to survive, and even better luring enemies as some will hopelessly chase you around the map and if you manage to pull two or more out of the fight, then it's an advantage for your side.

Another thing, turn off all the channels except the team one. There's plenty of people that type crap.

Finally, avoid the enemy base defender

Patrick Smit · Feb 28, 2007, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

....I have seen a tanking wammo hold the Res shrine whilst the rest of his team went about their capping. I have never played a toucher but I believe they work well in either the Vampiric or Starburst form.
....

U wammo cant hold a shrine as he is alone, so what happens a group of at least four comes and caps the shrine almiost as fast, maybe killing the wammo in the process, or just driving huim away. NPCees are easily killed and so the the wammo generates just one pip.

Syntonic · Feb 28, 2007, 07:45 AM // 07:45

To go back to a point made earlier: People don't use healing monks. People use protection or bond monks which allows your Sin/Ele/other damage team to move forward with way less downtime and much more security. You can't always pick and choose your targets because your choice to avoid one group may prove detrimental or downright fatal to your ally groups. It happens a lot in AB. One team decides not to fight and runs off, leaving the opposing team to help out another group and use that momentum to hit the group that chose not to fight. If one of your teams wipe, you are at a huge disadvantage. That's why each team goes a different route on AB - to get more shrines. It's hard to get shrines if you have less teams capping them.

Alliance battles are about capping shrines but maybe there is a bit of a narrow view being brought forth here. There are more players that you need to consider on your team than just the names you see on your party window.

As for the OP: AB is a good place to start since there is a bit more leeway for mistakes. If your group sucks, it could be that 1 of the other groups are really good and can counterbalance that while you learn. Otherwise, start with Random Arena where... well, no one really cares. I'm sure someone will disagree with me on that but it's not like GvG. Sure you might get flamed in RA easily but if you can ignore that, it's a decent place to start to see how some skills work against other players.

If you have dedicated ABers in your alliance, start teaming up with them every time they go. They'll provide pointers without being nasty. It'll help if you can start where your side (Luxon or Kurzick) has the natural upper hand. If not, see if there are some other players on your side or on the forums that are willing to help you out.

As for the Guildwiki builds, simply use them as reference. It's quite rare that you will find one that exactly matches your tastes. You'll probably have to do a variant while keeping a few of the core skills to suit your playing style. Most builds have variants listed but some require some trial and error. You may find that one skill takes up too much energy or has too long of a casting/recharge time for how you play it. Basically, choose an idea/theme that you are comfortable with and build around that.

Treg Q · Mar 05, 2007, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Or then let the fool idea do the work

Imba melandru derv, 2 monks with enchaments and burning arrow ranger with symbiosis and fertile.
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8249/gw243pv6.jpg

Servant of Kali · Mar 07, 2007, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by yeah_hi

Any advice appreciated - even if it's just things to avoid (mending W/Mo yay!) - thanks.

Heya there.

First, i'll give you some very basic but very effective tips:
- play with open minimap, and scroll out of minimap so that your minimap covers as many shrines as possible and takes as least place on the screen as possible
- almost never join other teams in battle; your team needs to play alone, and keep capping
- avoid PvPing as much as possible; AB is NOT a PvP arena, it's PvPvE (there's more PvE than PvP, and the least you PvP easier you will win)
- when designing a team, ALL players must have run skill, including monk
- non monk players should not have any self defense skill, and should be high on offense to quickly kill NPCs
- make a pattern, keep running in circles and capping
- go for direct dmg, dont bother with degen skills (and dont take warrior if you can avoid it, dervish beats warrior any time in almost all game areas, including AB RA FA and alike; others will debate this but u can listen to my advice or not, up to you..... oh and if you're taking warrior make sure it's not sword, otherwise no good PUG group will accept you)
- the most experienced players in your group should be a leader, and he should guide your team, so that whenever someone in the team is lost on the battlefield, he should check on the leader and join him (i usually explain that to my team, and depending on the skill of the players in the team, they will follow with more or less success)

OK now let's comment a bit on what others wrote

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

For starters bring a hex removal skill

No hex removal is needed in AB. It's a waste of skill slot. I usually monk in AB, i have no condition or hex removal at all, and never really need it. AB is a guerilla warfare - hit and run. NPCs at shrines wont overwhelm you with hexes and wont cause any dangerous conditions (last time i checked). Run to them, kill and burst heal, run away.

Quote:

unless you are lucky enough to be in a party with a monk

No inexperienced team should start AB without a healer, monk or Rt does not matter. Elite teams can play without a monk, but in that case they will know what to do, and how to do it, and they wont need tips in this thread.
So, as far as the OP goes, he needs a healer. It's not a matter of luck, but of life and death

Quote:

The first thing you need to do is learn the 5 maps, where everything is, the NPC types that are on the 7 shrines, as the shrine names mostly do not relate to the NPC type on them.

Actually that's not even needed. Sure in time i remembered where mesmer shrine is, ele etc, but that's something that comes with play experience and is in no way important for someone who is just starting AB. He should treat shrines as shrines and just kill NPCs like normally, regardless of them being necro or warrior or sth else. I dont think it's good to overwhelm new players with "learn this n that". Yes, learning the shrines and map is good, i agree, and helps, but for a beginner i'd say dont bother with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

This is why the team that usually wins AB is not the team that focuses on capping, but the team that wins fights as they cap.

Hmm i think advices may be confusing for a new players as OP is. Let's then state that teams should be built for capping and focus on capping fast and moving on fast. That alone will eliminate the dull whammos (hopefully) and other useless builds.

You're right when you say that team who wins fighting while capping has a great advantage, but since i mostly monk a lot in AB, i noticed that a good monk can mean a difference between team wipe and win. In other words, i can have 3 non-pro players in my team who are focused on shrine capping, and they will win almost against any team 1 on 1 when met in combat, if i can do good (i use Mo/A, and no, it's not overrated hehe). Of course, im not saying the team will beat an all-expert team, but that's not realistic anyway.

So, it's much easier to say "put skills to fight NPCs" because then none will take some shutdown skills which are indeed good against players but help only a lil bit against shrines. For starters (like the OP), the main things is to run, kill shrine, cap, learn the pattern in which to move, and eliminate the threat of other players (this can be done by snaring, so, no necessarily fighting).

Quote:

P.S. But final point -- don't stress it too much. AB is as laid back as it gets, so just play how you enjoy.

Yup, agreed

I forgot to mention that.

Quote:

What does a monk add that intelligent play cannot? Wouldn't it make more sense to just have your own burst asses use feign, your softy to run distortion or something, and fight only when it favors you?

Eh.... i think you're missing the point. First of all, monk gives a lot of freedom to other 3 players. You dont have to worry about healing and stuff. As second, it's easier with the monk. Yes, i used to make 4 mesmers (no healer) in TA a long time ago, for fun.. and win several flawless... sure, but if i had to give tips to new players, would i say "oh u dont need monk"? Nope.

You can make a good team with no monk. Yes. But can a new player run effective no-monk build? Not really.

In a thread where new player asks for tips, it's not only useful but crucial that he has a monk. Rt can be ok, but for start, i'd say Mo/A.

Quote:

Monks are much easier to kill than you seem to think

Eh... i beg to differ, but that's probably because i use some very weird and unortodox monk build in AB. Now, im not saying i would beat *your* team because i dont usually play in hardcore teams, more of a relaxed teams. But whenever i play, im handling opposing teams easily. Sometimes i run into one which gives me trouble and/or kills me... which is natural since my team is busy with capping and im not immortal and not running any invinci builds

That's why i'd say.... Monks can be easily killed, or more difficult to kill, depending on the build. It's not that black and white. Good players in AB are a rarity, so no matter what you play, even whammo, you're gonna be successful

Hmm never mind, i read your post a bit further on... i saw you have some common monk builds in your head while doing monk criticism, so it's all good. We basically agree. But not all monks use the same playstyle; i play a very fast paced games in AB; actually, im usually the first to run into the shrine and absorb dmg.

Quote:

The players in every format are awful. I don't think AB is much worse than the others.

Ah cmon, the difference is huge

Even RA is noticably better than AB, TA is light yrs away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

@ Blame the monks, I don't see why a build that isn't able to beat TA teams would be better in AB to win most of the confrontations

TA and AB are a lot different. A lot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syntonic

People don't use healing monks. People use protection or bond monks

Actually, i use a healing monk. Oh the horror... yea yea... but it suits my AB playstyle the best, i know what i use the skills i use on it. And it works for me. I dont use a single prot prayers skill. Unlike other arenas, heal monk actually works, but im not going into details why.

Amadei · Mar 07, 2007, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

- non monk players should not have any self defense skill, and should be high on offense to quickly kill NPCs

Yeah, God forbid they make their monk's life a little easier. He has unlimited energy, you know, and can heal even if you're getting overwhelmed at a shrine.

Quote:

I usually monk in AB, i have no condition or hex removal at all, and never really need it.

I'm sure your blind warriors and dazed elementalists appreciate the fact you have no way to take it off of them. You make it sound as though you NEVER fight real people, just NPCs, which just isn't reality. You might not want to fight real players, but I've had stubborn people follow various characters of mine all the way across the map.

I'm kind of curious how you deal with an, oh, say Migraine mesmer or a Broad Head Arrow ranger or a You're All Alone! warrior raging in your face with your lack of hex/condition removal. Run? Good luck with that cripple. Heal? Have fun with Migraine and the 2/3 interrupts a Migraine mesmer will usually carry.

IMO, if you play a monk in ABs, you SHOULD bring hex/condition removal and I would recommend Holy Veil and Dismiss Condition. Pre-veiling is pretty damn awesome.

bungusmaximus · Mar 07, 2007, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

Heya there.
- go for direct dmg, dont bother with degen skills (and dont take warrior if you can avoid it, dervish beats warrior any time in almost all game areas, including AB RA FA and alike; others will debate this but u can listen to my advice or not, up to you..... oh and if you're taking warrior make sure it's not sword, otherwise no good PUG group will accept you)

You make sense but that particular point is nonsense. Dervishes hate hammer warriors and they still have paper armor. I only play warrior for 2 weeks and yesterday I had quite a lot of fun raping Grenths avatars in TA wherever I saw them. A good warrior isn't taken down easily by a dervish, it's just too bad a lot of people choose warrior as their first profession and therefore suck at playing one. When it comes to things like self-heal the dervis is better equipped then a warrior, but hey, thats where monk are for.

Plissken · Mar 12, 2007, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by yeah_hi

Apologies if this is the wrong place to ask; I wasn't sure.

I'm not much of a PvP-er. I don't dislike it, I just haven't got into it (yet) - it seems quite daunting.

This weekend my alliance is having an AB event (it's more of a 'turn up, dive in' event than a co-ordinated team build event), so I made my way to Guildwiki to have a look at individual AB builds. There are so many there, I got a bit overwhelmed with the choices, so was wondering:

In your opinion, is there a build that's pretty easy to master if you're a complete beginner? I can roll pretty much anything. Things like weapon swaps/energy hiding (are they even used in AB?) are all a bit foreign to me right now, so anything that's relatively easy to pick up and run with would be great. I'd like to be at least some use to the team that's unfortunate enough to be lumbered with me.

Any advice appreciated - even if it's just things to avoid (mending W/Mo yay!) - thanks.

I won't go into strategy tips or battle-wisdom.The build I find is the easiest to run even with the little practice is the Assassin/Warrior build so many run nowadays and wich I run myself when I feel like doing some mindless killing:

Shadow Prison (Elite)
Burst of Aggression (only warrior skill in the build)
Black Lotus Strike
Twisted Fangs
Black Spider Strike
Blades of Steel
Siphon Speed
Feigned Neutrality

Attributes I use:
Dagger Mastery 11+1+3
Critical Strikes 7+1
Shadow Arts 7+1
Deadly Arts 9+1

Pretty simple build to use just hex the target,unleash the whole combo.Target should die then rinse and repeat

Ronin Rangerin · Mar 29, 2007, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Blame the Monks is right, monks arent needed in ab in most cases as long as you can kill quickly and pick your fights well. Past few days Ive found other +champion, 10+tiger phoenix teams to play with and all we took were melee chars, assasins + warriors, each time holding teh luxons to under 100 points in 10 consec games.

bungusmaximus · Apr 02, 2007, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin Rangerin

Blame the Monks is right, monks arent needed in ab in most cases as long as you can kill quickly and pick your fights well. Past few days Ive found other +champion, 10+tiger phoenix teams to play with and all we took were melee chars, assasins + warriors, each time holding teh luxons to under 100 points in 10 consec games.

Yeah that works until you meet one team with a brain and then you're pretty much screwed. Yesterday we did AB for 6 hours and our monk died twice, apart from the team wipes, which were 4 in total. There were pretty much examples of how lacking a monk could lose us the entire game. We use a warrior as spearhead and hes not going to keep himself clean from all the blinds, faintheartedness, SS and what so on. And my role in that team is keeping melee of the team with a b-flash ele, works perfect ^^.

moriz · Apr 14, 2007, 12:18 AM // 00:18

monks are only viable in AB if you go in as a coordinated team. it is possible to hold a shine with your team (with a monk) against 2 teams, thereby creating a huge 10 vs 5 mismatch everywhere else in the map in favour of your side.

my personal favourite build is the burning arrow ranger. they are a very balanced class with excellent damage and defense. it is possible to hold off 4-5 attackers from a defensive shrine with just 1 of these rangers.