Curse

LifesRestorer · Mar 26, 2007, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by isis avaris

While it's a little flawed, I don't want to see the return of alter maps...

/not signed

new altar mechanics ftw. 2 second cap time, no cost on claim resources (FU zergs). yay

thats the ideal scenario imo

Lodurr · Mar 26, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

/signed

It was meant to be a fast-paced combat gametype, but the reality is no one will meet in the middle for fear giving another team a kill. If they do actually meet in the middle, one team will usually retreat causing the other teams to either chase or retreat for the rest of the duration.

Three teams running away from each other like cowards != Heroes' Ascent.

NoPantsRepublic · Mar 26, 2007, 10:50 PM // 22:50

I don't like 3-way killcount and neither does anyone else.

/signed

gasmaskman · Mar 26, 2007, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

new altar mechanics ftw. 2 second cap time, no cost on claim resources (FU zergs). yay

thats the ideal scenario imo

That would be hawt.

And no past-2-minute-kill-the-ghostly-they-can't-win scenario (ghostly/team rezzes every minute)

Randomway Ftw · Mar 27, 2007, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

new altar mechanics ftw. 2 second cap time, no cost on claim resources (FU zergs). yay

thats the ideal scenario imo

New altar mechanics FTL, the only reasonable way to go is 5 second claim resource, and nerf song. If you have a problem capping, its because your team does not have enough cordination to put a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing sb and stability on the ghost at the same time, and interupt a 2 second activation skill. If your ghost dies before you can cap before 2 mins its because you are not paying attention.

The only thing seeking arrows, and interupt wars did was prevent bad teams, and teams without utility from capping, which is a good thing.

3 second claim resource, and ghost res every minute just dumbs the game down and makes it easier.

master_of_puppets · Mar 27, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomway Ftw

New altar mechanics FTL, the only reasonable way to go is 5 second claim resource, and nerf song. If you have a problem capping, its because your team does not have enough cordination to put a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing sb and stability on the ghost at the same time, and interupt a 2 second activation skill. If your ghost dies before you can cap before 2 mins its because you are not paying attention.

The only thing seeking arrows, and interupt wars did was prevent bad teams, and teams without utility from capping, which is a good thing.

3 second claim resource, and ghost res every minute just dumbs the game down and makes it easier.

yeah old altar mechanics were so awesome and godly that you were practically forced to have certain skills in your bar like tons of interrupts, spell breaker(which is otherwise crap), ward of stability, song (unless it nerfed), healing seed, and of course tons of defense and heals

i dont care if interrupt wars did rid the game of whoever, there is NO denying that having 3/8 people (2 cg rangers and a pd mesmer) on a team to interrupt ghostly was lame

lol.... 3 second cap dumbs down the game? How? people have less time to interrupt the ghostly = less room for error and more recognition needed rather than a long cast where people have tons of time. How does that dumb down the game. rather it does the opposite

no, new altar > old

Death_From_Above · Mar 27, 2007, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_of_puppets

lol.... 3 second cap dumbs down the game? How? people have less time to interrupt the ghostly = less room for error and more recognition needed rather than a long cast where people have tons of time. How does that dumb down the game. rather it does the opposite

no, new altar > old

Basically you have more people capping so think of it like this. Team caps, other 2 teams waste so much time eventualy get hero down. Now they cap, how long does it take 2 weaken the enermys or kill Ghosts or batter the life out of their monks so you can kill ghost and cap. So say enermys lucky 2 kill ghost and cap, thats basically gg before the macth has ended right. Removing some people from alter when they cap first doesnt exactly take 10 seconds. Something i think should be taken into consideration.

Oceans Fury · Mar 27, 2007, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_of_puppets

Kill count is a stupid mechanic that shouldnt have been implemented in the first place. It promotes spike and AoE and makes pressure less effective. Also it doesnt neccesarily indicate who played better and many teams just leech off another team's work. What if one team killed a target only because the other team was shutting down that team's monks? There are many other examples of how this doesn't work very well. Anet denies kill stealing but I've seen several very suspicious cases where my team did a lot of dmg to a target and another team got the killing blow and they got the point.

Theres very little variety, every single team is running the same crap. The only classes being used at all are sins for their Shadow Prison crap (which was NOT nerfed hard enough, increase recharge to 30 kthx) eles for their AoE, and of course monks. And necs and rits of course for their overpowered spike skills? (Anet if you have no clue how to buff skills then dont do it at all_

In 3-team matches like this gank is inevitable. In broken tower it basically just comes to who can kill the noobiest team faster.

Anyway there are lots more problems with kill count. Take it out of BT and courtyard and put in holding.(make one old style and one new style) but makes the ghostly rez either way when he dies. Oh and nerf SoC

/signed

There are a lot of interesting points in this. One of which is the following:

"What if one team killed a target only because the other team was shutting down that team's monks?"

Well, Why would you go after their monks and try to shut them down right away anyways?? It YOUR fault for not tabbing through and selecting low targets for your team to take down.

Another interesting point:

"It promotes spike and AoE and makes pressure less effective."

Its not the games fault that certain builds dont work. Its yours. Why is the game suppose to change to your likeing, when its much easier for you to get over yourself and change your gameplan to coordinate with the game. If hexway cant win on killcount, then it doesnt mean killcount shouldnt be in the game, just maybe you shouldnt run hexway.

Yet another questionable point:

"Anet denies kill stealing but I've seen several very suspicious cases where my team did a lot of dmg to a target and another team got the killing blow and they got the point."

I seriously doubt that. Even so, I promise you that it wouldnt happen often, and that you probably think your doing more damage then you actually do.

Moving on:

"In 3-team matches like this gank is inevitable. In broken tower it basically just comes to who can kill the noobiest team faster."

Ok, This is what pisses me off about people who complain about killcount. YOU DONT KNOW WHY YOU LOSE!! It is not about ganking the weak team or shuttind down the offensive team or spiking faster than other teams or any of that bullshit. In the end, the team with the best positioning and the best tactics with EVERYONE following directions, wins the match. Granted, there are those matches where it seems as if both teams are on you 24/7, then you need to use that to your advantage.
One thing to do when both teams are on you, back into either yours or someone elses cave and turtle up. Let them hurt eachother with AoE so that you can pounce on weak players from both teams, Yes this does put your monks in a rough position, BUT, its 10x easier to play when you cant be picked off from front and back and both sides.

-Fury

Legendary Shiz · Mar 27, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

/signed to remove kill count and add back altar maps

Randomway Ftw · Mar 27, 2007, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_of_puppets

yeah old altar mechanics were so awesome and godly that you were practically forced to have certain skills in your bar like tons of interrupts, spell breaker(which is otherwise crap), ward of stability, song (unless it nerfed), healing seed, and of course tons of defense and heals

i dont care if interrupt wars did rid the game of whoever, there is NO denying that having 3/8 people (2 cg rangers and a pd mesmer) on a team to interrupt ghostly was lame

lol.... 3 second cap dumbs down the game? How? people have less time to interrupt the ghostly = less room for error and more recognition needed rather than a long cast where people have tons of time. How does that dumb down the game. rather it does the opposite

no, new altar > old

The thing is that old altar mechanics allowed skilled teams to cap easily, while bad teams who shouldn't be in halls anyways can't.

I don't really care if you need to have things like SB or pure heals, it was a unique and enjoyable game mode of its own. You don't need to SB, but having SB made it extremely easy to cap against PD, and protected your infuser, or ghost from cater spikes, along with doing many other things.

3 second cast time claim resource dumbs down the game because it allows people to hack down your ghost and cap randomly without having to anything, because unless you have a rediculous amount of interupts you wont be able to keep the ghost interupted for long.

In old halls random AD pugs that skipped off zaishen would have a very hard time capping because they don't know how to deal with the interupters/bodyblockers. In new altars you can cap by hacking away at the teams monks until the ghost dies, then wait 20 seconds until the team cannot keep up with claim resource and cap randomly. You don't even need guardian.

LifesRestorer · Mar 27, 2007, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceans Fury

One thing to do when both teams are on you, back into either yours or someone elses cave and turtle up. Let them hurt eachother with AoE so that you can pounce on weak players from both teams

nice, thanks to the most damage wins rule, you just gave the other team a point. taking a target from full health will result in them running backwards, so if you want the kill you have to go forwards. back into the middle again, prepare to be ganked...

ksalanpang · Mar 27, 2007, 10:27 PM // 22:27

/beg
/signed

Reason · Mar 28, 2007, 06:16 AM // 06:16

/signed

gg

allience · Mar 28, 2007, 08:49 AM // 08:49

/signed please remove kill count.

Surena · Mar 28, 2007, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

/signed to remove kill count and add back altar maps

This just promotes altar-holding-modes/builds. Sit and enjoy the timer. How possibly could you want this again? Oh wait, it's to your advantage, right?

Retardspike less.

evil joo · Mar 28, 2007, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceans Fury

There are a lot of interesting points in this. One of which is the following:

"What if one team killed a target only because the other team was shutting down that team's monks?"

Well, Why would you go after their monks and try to shut them down right away anyways?? It YOUR fault for not tabbing through and selecting low targets for your team to take down.

Another interesting point:

"It promotes spike and AoE and makes pressure less effective."

Its not the games fault that certain builds dont work. Its yours. Why is the game suppose to change to your likeing, when its much easier for you to get over yourself and change your gameplan to coordinate with the game. If hexway cant win on killcount, then it doesnt mean killcount shouldnt be in the game, just maybe you shouldnt run hexway.

Yet another questionable point:

"Anet denies kill stealing but I've seen several very suspicious cases where my team did a lot of dmg to a target and another team got the killing blow and they got the point."

I seriously doubt that. Even so, I promise you that it wouldnt happen often, and that you probably think your doing more damage then you actually do.

Moving on:

"In 3-team matches like this gank is inevitable. In broken tower it basically just comes to who can kill the noobiest team faster."

Ok, This is what pisses me off about people who complain about killcount. YOU DONT KNOW WHY YOU LOSE!! It is not about ganking the weak team or shuttind down the offensive team or spiking faster than other teams or any of that bullshit. In the end, the team with the best positioning and the best tactics with EVERYONE following directions, wins the match. Granted, there are those matches where it seems as if both teams are on you 24/7, then you need to use that to your advantage.
One thing to do when both teams are on you, back into either yours or someone elses cave and turtle up. Let them hurt eachother with AoE so that you can pounce on weak players from both teams, Yes this does put your monks in a rough position, BUT, its 10x easier to play when you cant be picked off from front and back and both sides.

-Fury

Fury, you make some fine points that most experience players will agree with. Honestly, I really like kill count, as well as alter holding matches. But do you know what really irritates the majority of players I play with everyday?

Seriously, it is really annoying when you beat Underworld (1 fame) and skip to Broken Tower. The reason why it is annoying is because you have 1/3 chance of winning, and if you lose, you just wasted 10-15 minutes to gain 1 fame. Say if you did win, the same rule applies when skipping to courtyard, and lose. So, in a total of 30-45 minutes of game-play, your team will farm about 4-10 fame.

Of course, it is the team's fault (not Anet's fault) for losing since they did not play as well as the other teams. However, I have to admit that Anet did not do a good job with the Nightfall skills, over-nerfing skills players loved, and changing game-play mechanics. People miss the good ol' days of tomb because there were so many players, players made fame faster and had fun doing it (whether IWAY, spike, or balance).

As of today, there is nothing but SKIPS and people hating on kill count for having that 1/3 chance of winning. By changing HA to 8vs8 is a nice step forward, however it took so long to implement!

Anet, can you consider making the timer shorter on Broken Tower/Courtyard, make it 1vs1, or removing it plz? I understand that if you shorten the timer, those who just beat the Zaishen and Underworld would have to wait for awhile before finding a match. (Hence, Skipping > Waiting) I am sure there is alot to consider, but seriously if we have to wait another 3-6 months, that means that we will have a lot of unhappy players, and skipping/not having fun will eventually drive myself and other players out of Guild Wars. This issue will not be resolved, unless resolved ASAP.

Dodo The Extinct · Mar 28, 2007, 08:19 PM // 20:19

/signed

Please remove Kill Count.....Imo, even the old Broken Tower was more fun than the one in place.

Raising · Mar 31, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

/signed

123chars

God Apprentice · Apr 01, 2007, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Halls used to have a special feeling when you came in and there were 5 teams facing each other and you had to beat one team to even get to the altar, it felt like you were proving yourself

Anyone else felt that way in old Halls?

Take out Kill Count this is HA, not Alliance Battles.

J3mo · Apr 01, 2007, 12:52 PM // 12:52

/signed

+Normal halls pl0x, +0 SR from Spirits = HA fixed