Curse

Dexi · May 24, 2007, 04:41 PM // 16:41

basically the Guild i lead [WiN] have decided that they want GvG and HA... this presents a small problem to me. Whilst i consider myself to be a fairly decent PvP Player, i have no experience of leading a team, its obviously something you can't learn over night, and as i have a responsibility to my Guild, i cant say no, the Guild is quite expectant of me and no other person seems willing or is capable of leading...Builds are of no problem to me, i can observe etc etc. What is a problem is things like tactics within a GvG, pushing, holding...

Could i get some advice/ a few tips, im sure other people are in the same position as me

thanks.

Patrograd · May 24, 2007, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Hmm

here's a good place to start I think

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...leadership.php

Its far from being definitive, but gives a pretty good basic idea of what's involved for someone who hasnt done it before, or who hasnt witnessed it being done well.

In the end though, experience is the best teacher. You are going to face new situations all the time, and at first you will make the wrong decision, and as a result your team may well lose, but as time goes by the new situations you encounter will become less frequent, and you will gradually learn.

Be decisive. A wrong decision is better than no decision.

Farin · May 24, 2007, 07:39 PM // 19:39

First off I'd get used to every role. At the lower ends of the ladder you'll pretty much need to tell everyone what to do in order to work well as a team.

Oink The Pig · May 24, 2007, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaZoO

First off I'd get used to every role. At the lower ends of the ladder you'll pretty much need to tell everyone what to do in order to work well as a team.

To build on what RaZoO said, since you (the OP) indicated that you know the builds, can obs, etc., you might want to consider writing out in detail what each player in the build should be doing with that character beforehand. This way, when you roll up to play, people are already somewhat briefed on their role. This also helps when you find yourself without an experienced caller but still want to play. If everyone knows their individual roles pretty thoroughly, it makes it much easier for the leader simply to direct traffic, countdown spikes when necessary. It also means you don't have to tell someone over voice chat during the match what they should be doing (not as often, anyway). Some builds, usually certain pressure builds, allow you to have anyone on offense call when they see a low target, and have everyone else focus it.

For you personally, you will also want to figure out what position you are most comfortable calling from. Some people prefer to call from a melee position, since it's a damage position, it's up front, and you can c-space someone while tabbing for a target to spike. Others feel they can't see the big picture as a melee character and are much more capable callers from a midline role. I even remember hearing that someone from EvIL would call from the Monk position. And, of course, some people don't care what role they're playing when they call. But it helps early on to figure out any limitations you might have in this regard so you can design builds/assign roles with that in mind.

Also, you may also try to split up some of the calling duties. Have someone in charge of target calling and another who's in charge of calling for splits/ganks/retreats. This is not going to work for everyone, but the basic concept is to figure out the strengths and weaknesses of your players and work around them to highlight the strengths and dull out the weaknesses.

Lastly, read Patrograd's post carefully (particularly the last line), as he makes some excellent points.

s w o r d y · May 25, 2007, 12:00 AM // 00:00

lower them fools expectations

but seriously, when they get out of line - crush them!

TheOneMephisto · May 25, 2007, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Make sure that you get your team to communicate with you. It's much easier to make decisions when you are well informed. Make sure that your monks are calling their status, that you warriors are calling when the enemy team looks like its under pressure, that people call incoming flaggers or splits, that you know what's in your base, overextended warriors, stuff in your base, low targets, etc. There is a such thing as too much info, but it might take a bit for your players to find out what that is. However, it is much more important that you are getting the information necessary to make good calls.

DIH49 · May 25, 2007, 02:30 AM // 02:30

The single most important task of any leader is: DON'T PANIC. Everything else is details.

Elrodien · May 25, 2007, 09:54 AM // 09:54

The ability to read what is happening during a game and being able to react accordingly is the true ability of a good leader. Unfortunately, this only comes through experience and knowledge of the game and its skills.

Don't raise your expectations too high and don't give up just because your team got rolled four times in a row. As long as you learn from your mistakes, you will improve every time you press 'enter battle'.

Dexi · May 25, 2007, 02:45 PM // 14:45

thanks for all the comments peeps, especially that link was useful, il remember some of the stuff you said

hmmm Biggyverse... i think we played you t'other night we lost though lol

Elrodien · May 26, 2007, 12:14 AM // 00:14

You must have had 3 afks ^^

RotteN · May 26, 2007, 09:24 AM // 09:24

leading in GvG is partly common sense, partly experience, but most of all, decide fast.

A bad decision will usually hurt your team less than no decision at all (unless the decision is a suicide push when your monks are at 0 energy). Encourage your team to speak up when something is bothering them, or when they're unable to do their job, but never, ever allow them to overcall what you called. There is no room for dicussions in a gvg, simply do as you're told, even though you think it's completely wrong. mistakes should be discussed afterwards in order to prevent them in future battles.

That being said, as long as you react quickly to situations and keep your cool when the rest panics, you're a good caller :P the actual correctness of those calls will come with experience

sixdartbart · May 27, 2007, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

In the end though, experience is the best teacher. You are going to face new situations all the time, and at first you will make the wrong decision, and as a result your team may well lose, but as time goes by the new situations you encounter will become less frequent, and you will gradually learn.

Be decisive. A wrong decision is better than no decision.

QFT
Lots of good tips here but this one is the best IMO.

The only thing I would add is be patient not only with your players but with yourself as well,the experience will come,things will get easier just keep the stress of learning away and you will have great fun.

Faith Taylyn · May 28, 2007, 09:38 AM // 09:38

What RotteN said is very true and I think what is very important especially in a OP kind of situation is still to allow and encourage others to say their thoughts on the possible tactics with the leader only being the guy who has the "final word" rather than calling everything himself.

Not allowing others to influence how the GvG is played might hinder everyone else's individual tactical knowledge which will become a very important factor when they get a bit higher on the ladder.

Kaon · Jun 02, 2007, 06:50 PM // 18:50

You dont just become leader.

You get BORN as a leader, then it depends on your experience and skill in the leader whether you can become one. Leadership is a charactertrait only few posess.

chatiez-meow · Jun 03, 2007, 02:30 AM // 02:30

For what I see leading gvg is someone who make active choices. Reactive choices HAVE to come from whole team, like flagger needs to tell when problems going in flagrunning before problems come monks need to call before they run low etc.
Just learn to call right active tactics, keep game alive and keep yourself in main battle as much as possible. And keep some idea in game all the time, so youre actually doing something else than just wanking around. Play defensive play offensive try to keep some vision what you want is going to happen in next 5 minutes like total flag advantage and push or keep all npcs alive whatever, just keep objective all the time. This is just scrub balanced view, dont know how gimmick guildshies do.

Trevor · Jun 03, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Make sure your players know what they're doing. A lot of the time, leading a team is more important off the field than on it.

Happy · Jun 03, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Also if people screw up, RAGE, make sure it's justified rage but don't be afraid to, rage gets people to focus unlike anything else.

Kaon · Jun 03, 2007, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy

Also if people screw up, RAGE, make sure it's justified rage but don't be afraid to, rage gets people to focus unlike anything else.

Quoted for emphasis. When something goes wrong its imperative that you EXACTLY know what went wrong. Very often your guildie won't answer or give you a vague dodging answer. This is when you have to simply SQUEEZE it out of him, if he still doesn't reply well, it means he totally fails at communication and should not play gvg.

This requires a great deal of trust between the members, since sometimes they have to tell you that they failed because they aren't skilled enough (example: I missed interrupt/infuse cos im not fast enough! or: I didn't see the warrior coming so I couldnt snare him!) Many people find it hard to tell them they failed since they think it hurts their ego. However, once you've built up a good deal of trust inbetween your members they won't feel such a thing as badly and therefore communicate better. This will lead to better coordination, ambience and overall playing!

Trevor · Jun 03, 2007, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Don't actually rage though,there's a fine line between constructive criticism and trashing someone.

Farin · Jun 04, 2007, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Hey you stfu