Curse

Maiyn · May 27, 2007, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Yay....

/resign

Trevor · May 27, 2007, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Guild wars GvG is dead. Cry is a prime example of why Euros suck, and I've never heard of HAnD until this thread. GvGing has been reduced to either scrimming or hoping you face one of the 6-7 guilds worldwide that could give a decent match.

It's all over folks, go home.

lightblade · May 27, 2007, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Paragon: shouts and chants synergy with only other paragons.
Ritualist: skills recieve synergy from spirits, so only good when you mass rt.

This is why we get all Rt or all P

Neo-LD · May 27, 2007, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor

It's all over folks, go home.

Pretty much, yeah. Guess I picked a good time to retire.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twinsoul

Looks like fun. As far as I know, there's nothing wrong with running the best builds in the metagame, if that's what you're implying.

...

There will always be some teams that go above and beyond. Now, if every guild in the top 10 were running the SAME build, that would be cause for worry.. But even if the top few are gimmicks, they are DIFFERENT gimmicks. I really don't see the problem with them... Maybe the problem is that people are too focused on balanced builds?

I despise people that recite from Sirlin as if he is completely applicable to all situations, or as if they actually understand it.

The complaint is not so much against gimmick-based guilds like Hand. Its a complaint against the game itself. If Guild Wars were even a shadow of the competitive game it could have been, builds like that wouldnt even be able to get you into the top 1000. When we say 'builds like that' we mean builds that are completely devoid of required intelligence and talent. Builds that bypass a once beautiful system of tactical ploys, defensive focus, and offensive flair, in favor of mundane, narrow templates that a chimpanzee could successfully use.

The entire point of competition is for people to prove they are the best. For that to happen, balance must be based on rewarding player skill. But its clearly not, and if I may quote Sirlin in an applicable circumstance, "if a game becomes more and more corrupt as it reaches higher and higher levels of play, the only winning move is not to play."

Apok Omen · May 27, 2007, 05:54 AM // 05:54

The really sad thing is that Anet won't give us a skill update yet, especially when they pathetically attempt yet another 2x GvG weekend.

Honestly, 2x weekends do nothing but promote farmers to get there e-peens enlarged. Hexes and spikes arent even the problem, as they are totally managable. The problem is that the gimmicks are too easy to play, therefore having the ladder system kick off the true top 100 guilds attempting balanced to make room for the gimmickers.

However, even if Anet fixed it perfectly, you would hear people complaining. And of course, since Anet is a 24/7 catering service, they will do as the complainers say.

In the current metagame, Ignorance>Skill

moko · May 27, 2007, 06:18 AM // 06:18

where's the ghostly? >_>

but ya, let them farm, once it's over they'll go back to their normal builds, it's not that those are real gimmick guilds (well, ok, hand did use their hexway a lot..)

Satans Dominatrix · May 27, 2007, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dextus Ironheart

FFs is a prime example of a guild never winning anything imho

Who R U? and I don't think FFs even played in the monthly tournament?

The 2x weekend had nothing to do with these 2 teams running these builds. If this was double dye weekend it would be the same thing.

I would also run these "gimmick" builds if it was for real life prizes. Why in the hell wouldn't you?

These were some of the best build picks for the whole tournament. What else were they gonna play? hexes? maybe recall split?

I would rather see these 2 builds played than to see more hexes.

In the end tho, this was for real prizes and thats when you just say "I will run w/e wins". Which we all know the build that always will win is the Signet of Might build.

White Hair · May 27, 2007, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Quote:

A rank 1k guild won a silver cape. Not only that, a really shitty rank 1k guild.
When only 30 guilds care enough to show up, trash happens.

If you had bothered to catch up on some of your GW history you would have seen KT has finished at some decent ranks before, namely 33rd in the last tournament and somewhere top 50ish in some of the seasons before.

KT's rank is solely a result of having to obtain QP's with heroes and not having a core team present because of RL matters.

Div · May 27, 2007, 11:23 AM // 11:23

The question is...why would they play spike builds on frozen? O.o

Many top teams use gimmicks to catch the other guilds they play by surprise, but I agree that the current gvg system is nowhere near as good as before...

RotteN · May 27, 2007, 11:58 AM // 11:58

the tournament was one big joke, so who cares ?

This is Build Wars, play to win, live with it or leave it.

Twinsoul · May 27, 2007, 02:34 PM // 14:34

http://www.sirlin.net/Features/featu...ToWinPart1.htm

Anet obviously isn't going to make any major changes for a while. I suggest you all either quit the game, or start playing to win. Either way, complaining that other people are smart enough to use things you consider "cheap" in a tournament is not going to help. Hell, if you want to play for fun, why not just find some like minded guilds and do some unrated battles, with all the rules you want to make up. You have plenty of good choices you can make, and none of them involve making angry posts on a forum.

RotteN · May 27, 2007, 02:52 PM // 14:52

people should stop complaining about the so called "gay" builds.

We've ran a lot of builds, from pure paraway to a pressurebuild with 2 warriors, a dervish, a ranger, 2 ele's and 2 monks yet all of that was labelled "gimmick", "gay", "lame" at one time or another ... there is no such thing as "balanced" anymore, cause even balanced is considered "gay" if people lose to it.

get a grip seriously

Xioden · May 27, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

The problem isn't the builds themselves, its the fact that with the new tournament system, its not too difficult to get into the final tournament. Over the course of a month, even if your only an average team you can scrape together 20 QP.

With the old ladder rank deciding if you were in the tournament or not, you had "good" teams taking the spots in the tournament, and thus flexible (read: balanced) builds excelled once you got past 600 rating or so, as you could adapt to a rigid team. Paraway and Ritspike don't handle well in a split for example. If you can't kill them you can always send off at least a guy or two to clear the base/go for the lord while the rest of the team tries to hold them off for as long as possible.

Paraway vs. Rit spike sure won't make for an interesting match, but when your facing one a balanced team shouldn't have much issue winning the match (even if they don't exactly beat them down).

Signet Of Hell · May 27, 2007, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xioden

The problem isn't the builds themselves, its the fact that with the new tournament system, its not too difficult to get into the final tournament. Over the course of a month, even if your only an average team you can scrape together 20 QP.

So, any guild that enters said tournament and does not have or feel it has the talent to compete with "top GvG" guilds will run imba builds or "lame builds". What ever happened to the ladder, /cry.

Zuranthium · May 27, 2007, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by assassin of the god

soooooo......is [KT] the new ownzzzzzzzzzz?

Lince has a Silver cape now????????????

Oh dear.

~Z

nem coke · May 27, 2007, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Noob On Steroid and many people around gave you nice examples that you're flaming for nothing. But true, when I face paraway/rit spike or something like that, and then lose to them I start hating the game, but then again...if you can get a nice graphics card, golden trim and some other stuff for playing a few hours of paraway or something...why not? And also, what's that shit about Amercian guilds>>>>>> euros? Trevor said there are only 6-7 guilds worldwide that can give a decent match...are they maybe [dixi], [AOL], [imo], [VW], and [VRF]?

v for Valkier · May 27, 2007, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenny

shields do a lot vs Pspike, armor + vs piercing, same vs rit spike, or icy veins, etc and a lot of build can rape those gimmicks
all you basically need is some interrupts vs casters spike, some anti melee vs Pspike for example, wth is wrong with people not having any defense prepared to face that ?

If you say that your guild is so good, why do you not run a balanced build to beat a gimmick build if theres "a lot of build can rape those gimmicks"?

Or is it true that you are bad?

When you beat a gimmick build with a balanced build, especially when a championship is on the line, that is when you gain the respect of everyone.

Nurse With Wound · May 27, 2007, 05:42 PM // 17:42

When builds like this are winning tournaments, blame the game, not players.

[cry] isn't a gimmick guild, they were playing for real-life prizes. Its not their fault that current state of the game is pathetic. Anet makes the rules ( unless you're a scrub ).

Divinus Stella · May 27, 2007, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Some people spent too much time playing guildwars and not enough in school

The main problem is balance, they could hire extra staff to work on improvements rather than just throw cash around in tourneys, they lost all the top level competition a while ago and its not coming back, no matter how many freebies they throw out.

Neo-LD · May 27, 2007, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Program, like I've been saying, the blame here lies with the game, not the guilds. But if you and others on that side of the fence insist on bringing up the subject of guilds, I hardly think you can assert that Hand or Cry have accomplished anything... Unless you take pride in being RPS and Tic Tac Toe champs.