Curse

Jade Zephyr · Jun 22, 2007, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Imo a better change for enraging charge would be to make it last maybe like 4-9 seconds and same adren, so its basically rush in and get adren and it makes Sprint a better choice for different situations.

Ensign · Jun 22, 2007, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

I suppose that BA would kill through SoR alone, but doesnt the SoR bar also have a mend touch? I rarely see one without it.

They didn't before the update (at least, none of the ones worth watching did). Now they do because they've lost so much defense. I thought about running it on a Water template as soon as I saw the Blurred hit, but it pulls so much power off of that character that I don't know that he's worth running anymore.

I.E., SoR, MT, Aegis. GLE and Armor of Mist are mandatory. You get 3 slots for Water skills. There's no way you can power the best ones, Deep Freeze and Frozen Burst, without the Attunement, and Attunement plus those two has too many holes. You're realistically looking at Freezing Gust and a couple mediocre hexes (Ice Spikes probably, maybe Blurred, maybe Ice Prison). That's not a Water Ele, that's a bad Monk with Freezing Gust.

Whether or not you run that guy depends entirely on how highly you value Freezing Gust, I guess.

Seamus Finn · Jun 22, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

That's not a Water Ele, that's a bad Monk with Freezing Gust.

That is actually most of the SoR water ele runners I have seen run since before and after the update. I don't watch many euro games, but that looks like what the Americans have been running.

I think rits right now fit that spot the best since they can affect the stand with fewer skill slots and still be at heart a monk runner. Plus with the crip shot buff you have more flexibility with where to put snares at the stand.

Lodurr · Jun 22, 2007, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Aegis is in no way mandatory, especially on a spot that never used to have it. If you want Aegis you sacrifice some utility.

Icy Shackles/Trident -> Freezing Gust
WoW -> SoR
Wielder's -> Mend Touch

The rest of the bar can be identical to the old E/Rt.

Byron · Jun 23, 2007, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

You're realistically looking at Freezing Gust and a couple mediocre hexes (Ice Spikes probably, maybe Blurred, maybe Ice Prison). That's not a Water Ele, that's a bad Monk with Freezing Gust.

I've played that exact template, and its ability to control an enemy split makes it worthwhile, imo. It will win against other conventional flagger or solo ganker templates (save perhaps for a good BA ranger). It does simplify to a monk role, though. With ice spikes and gust there is some damage potential at the stand, but the real value of its stand fighting is blurring trains and pre-protting sofites.

Though, I do feel that some of its popularity is purely style. It just feels right to have an e/mo running flags and defending bases. And I don't see any better alternatives in this meta for a typical balanced build.

Seamus Finn · Jun 23, 2007, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Though, I do feel that some of its popularity is purely style. It just feels right to have an e/mo running flags and defending bases. And I don't see any better alternatives in this meta for a typical balanced build.

I actually attribute its popularity to its durability and ease of use. I suppose, as with most water bars, it will scale up and better players can do more with it. However, its generally a tank runner that can soak up gobs of damage running in flags whit a third elite prot(and a bad runner not calling to cap isn't as terrible since he can prot himself to an extent), is difficult to kill on splits while providing strong heal support to whatever else is split, and has some easy crowd control on splits. So you could basically give it to a weaker player and it would be hard for them to screw up too badly. All in all, I would say its a total skirmish bar though. It when you start to put big hitters like burst, deep freeze, etc.(as ensign pointed out) that a water ele has real stand presence, and these guys almost never have that stuff.

Burton2000 · Jun 23, 2007, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Well we've been running a YAA warrior as our runner as it offers a much better offensive split abilities with our Broad head ranger as you can own virtually all base defenders or runners. The only disadvantage is the ability to defend outside archers with it.

Zuranthium · Jun 24, 2007, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

I actually attribute its popularity to its durability and ease of use. I suppose, as with most water bars, it will scale up and better players can do more with it. However, its generally a tank runner that can soak up gobs of damage running in flags whit a third elite prot

With the change to the armor cap, a SoR Water runner is no longer as good at tanking.

I'd really like to see SoR FIRE runners but the non-Elite fire spells aren't quite good enough for that template to be really strong. I liked playing SHATTERSTONE runner a lot as well but the Weapon of Warding nerf has killed that template too. *sigh*

~Z

TheOneMephisto · Jun 24, 2007, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

With the change to the armor cap, a SoR Water runner is no longer as good at tanking.~Z

How'd the armor cap change SoR runners? Unless you're trying to use SoR + watch yourself or something while he's running in?

Patccmoi · Jun 24, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

How'd the armor cap change SoR runners? Unless you're trying to use SoR + watch yourself or something while he's running in?

Armor of Mist

TheOneMephisto · Jun 24, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

Armor of Mist

Facepalm. Duh. My bad.

Ensign · Jun 25, 2007, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

I actually attribute its popularity to its durability and ease of use.

Thinking of the ~250 rank teams with SoR runners, it does seem like a lot of it is to make the guy a tank that can run flags without regards to strategy. A lot of those guys ran Holy Veil as well, now that I think of it, with just a couple of water snares. It did help when they made braindead play after braindead play, let me tell you.

Ka Tet · Jun 28, 2007, 08:37 PM // 20:37

my personal concerns are not so much gvg based as ha based, from my first ha match to the present ive been a hooked die-hard HA-er, as such I'm wondering when the HA meta will be fixed, when will rit spike be getting balanced, its a build thats entirely unbalanced and in imo ruining ha, their spike skills are all 1 second cast, low cost, non elite, and do more damage than any other build is capable of and is also paired with large healing capabilities and sublime energy renewal elites(OfferingSpirit) along with multiple hard rezes, its to the point where every other team you face is rit spike,
also is there a balance for iway/zergway coming soon, maybe an extra 3-4seconds tacked on to steady stance's rc and an increase in the cost for fear me 6-8 adren, the 2 main problems with the build is that neither desperation blow or drunken blow need to hit for an energy and adren gain and that the steady combo provides an instant rc to fear me(if you have 8 adren when you use fear me, you still have an rc count before you can use it again), its a build that will often allow bad players to beat good players without developing the actual skill that should be required to beat better players,
what i loved about gw was that the game was more about the skill of the players and not the skills on the skillbars, please allow that to return
i have no problem losing to a better thought-out build or better players but i dont like losing to the untalented b/c they were using an unbalanced build(in the case of iway one thats been unbalanced since before i even owned gw)