Curse

bashar pvp · Jun 20, 2007, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

If you have more proposed changes, please feel free to discuss them. It's a lot easier for there to be one big thread about skill balance instead of individual threads for each skill you think should be nerfed/buffed.

Just read ensign's post, a consructive game balance approved by most of the pvp community

Andrew Patrick · Jun 20, 2007, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Don't worry, the design team has already been made aware of that thread...twice.

I included a link to that very thread in this weeks Community Summary as well. There are a lot of good, well thought out suggestions and ideas in there.

TheOneMephisto · Jun 20, 2007, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

Don't worry, the design team has already been made aware of that thread...twice.

I included a link to that very thread in this weeks Community Summary as well. There are a lot of good, well thought out suggestions and ideas in there.

You can never have too much of a good thing right? Maybe we could pay you to like... put it in every weeks community summary until most of the stuff is fixed?

Thom Bangalter · Jun 20, 2007, 01:41 AM // 01:41

I'm up for it. what's your paypal?

yule · Jun 20, 2007, 02:37 AM // 02:37

lol, pay someone to harass izzy into letting someone else do his job for him for free...

drekmonger · Jun 20, 2007, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

If you have more proposed changes, please feel free to discuss them.

Changes to Black Lotus Strike and Shadow Prison are high on my personal list, such as the changes Ensign proposed.

Nurse With Wound · Jun 20, 2007, 03:29 AM // 03:29

I like the new update ( maybe except buff to Nature's Renewal - I don't think that's the best way to stop hex meta ).

However, I hope thats not the end of it. Ensign's list might be a really good start to fixing the game. I would also suggest more frequent skill updates, based on observing GVG and HA metas, preferably once a month or two.

I also noted the new Anet's policy - you actually started to communicate with us. I hope that it will last.

Zui · Jun 20, 2007, 03:57 AM // 03:57

I'm shocked. Absolutely shocked. This is a step in the right direction, a step that may be long overdue, but that fact doesn't diminish the underlying value of the change.

As for the actual change its self, addressing it specifically on its own merits, I do not think it goes far enough; it does not hit the skills it focuses on hard enough, and it also doesn't hit other skills that also need a nerf. It has been clearly articulated by many here that the PvP community would like to see skills and builds that reward skill, and make for an interesting, yet balanced, game. I would hope you put Ensign's thread in your summary again.

I would also hope you include older threads that also have a lot to offer, specifically ones that deal with lowering the barrier to entry for Guild Wars PvP, making sure there are quality low-level and mid-level PvP arenas to allow players to learn and develop connections, and increased rewards to encourage existing PvE players to seriously try out PvP.

I think that if you do all of those things, you'll have an excellent competitive game that people will want to play (both current players, old players, and new players). Of course, you'll have to market the PvP side of your game effectively, which is something you guys have failed to do in the past, but it honestly is not hard to do, nor expensive in the age of the internet.

Kool Pajamas · Jun 20, 2007, 04:25 AM // 04:25

I thought it was a pretty good update. I think a couple of those hexes still need a bigger nerf on duration. Shorter durations keeps with the whole "active defense" thing. I dont really understand the mark of rodgort nerf. 15 energy is pretty hefty for it already, so its not like spamming it really does all that much. I'd rather they shorten the duration. I'm guessing it was too good as a cover hex? Doesnt really change how I use it much but I just didnt understand the change. Frozen burst went from godly to good which is good. SF spikes are pretty much dead now. Hooray! Although like others have said, longer burning would help the skill for a single ele user.

And I agree you gotta watch buffing hex removers too much. If there is too much hex removal then the only way to use hexes will be in mass. Single users will have a hard time.

Still plenty more changes to be made though.

Div · Jun 20, 2007, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Nice move in the right direction. Now that SF spikes are nerfed, it's time to go on and get rid of ritspike, zergway, paraspike, and SP sins.

I'd come up with a list of proposed changes to discuss, but it'll be kinda pointless in light of ensign's more thought out list.

Xpl0iter · Jun 20, 2007, 05:29 AM // 05:29

However, i do like the SF change, it just needs its burning duration back to 7.

Darkest.

Riotgear · Jun 20, 2007, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Drunken Blow/Desperation Blow: Only knock down if it hits.
Faintheartedness: Reduces speed decrease to 25%, either 10/2/10 or 10/1/15.
Aegis: Earshot range, reduce duration slightly.
Shadow Prison: 10/0.25/30

I don't really follow the line of reasoning that everything needs to be "twitch"-based in order to be allowed. Tainted never took skill. Spamming Heal Party didn't really take skill either. The only time people have really complained about skillless crap is when the effects have been overwhelming, and that's exactly what the problem is with Faint, it's a devastating effect for a lengthy duration. Arcane Conundrum isn't 10/1/8 3..23, so why is Faint?

I think hexes like Faint being used to gimp a frontline, the same way people bring Dom mesmers to hurt the midline, the issue is that it its effect is simply way too good given the other attributes of the skill.

Aegis has nice tactical potential for allowing a pressured team the ability to recover during a push, the problem is being able to chain it constantly and the fact that it is now much more usable on a prot bar because of GoLE.

Zergway probably needs a bigger hit than the Drunken/Desperation pseudo-nerf, but just throwing a thought out there.

Shadow Prison just needs to be deleted from the game, making it a clunky 30-second recharge is a nice start. It's a terribly-designed skill that sucks the skill requirement out of melee completely, and makes things less-tactical everywhere it is made viable.

I'm still not a big fan of the Blurred nerf for reasons that have been mentioned throughout the thread. There are other solutions to the block/miss stacking problem (i.e. capping miss at 50% for starters).

Clouded One · Jun 20, 2007, 06:00 AM // 06:00

I am liking this update, way to move in the right direction Anet. I do agree with everyone else as well, Ensigns post made alot of great changes that are benifical. So yeah all i can say is keep it up guys

Patrograd · Jun 20, 2007, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Overall a nice step in the right direction.

So I wasted all that gold moving to Burning and developing a hex build then? QQ

:-)

bungusmaximus · Jun 20, 2007, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Absolutely great, never expected this actually. But convert at such a short recharge is insane, it's a pretty good skill even with the long recharge and cost. If you stick convert on two characters there isn't a single hex that will stick.

Crippling slash nerf I didn't expect as well, but it was incredibly powerful. Didn't really need hexes to shut down melee, I just hit them once with crip and kite around a bit :P.

Symbol · Jun 20, 2007, 06:39 AM // 06:39

A convert buff isn't going to do anything to hurt water hexers or the like, those hexes are almost never covered anyway.

I like these changes, for the most part.

Faintheartedness probably deserves a bigger hit to the duration TBH, but it's a start. Searing flames needs a longer burn duration (around 8 to 10s) to make it worth running as a single character. Mark of Rodgort nerf,ehh, I guess it's okay. It encourages actively looking for clumps rather than just spamming it willy nilly (energy wasn't a problem since you say it on mind blasters).

Cripslash and frozen burst nerfs, perfect. Enraging charge was a little too good compared to sprint, so that's fine. Nature's Renewal is pretty much the only "wtf" change the list. It was _very_ strong before, leave it alone.

Now please remove long PbAoE aftercasts, thx.

Lodurr · Jun 20, 2007, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

defensive splits need skills that offer blocking and miss rates, and with warding and blurred hit it becomes far harder to defend a base.

The E/Rt build was maybe too ubiquitous and too effective at its job and needed to be toned down. Just tonight I've seen some interesting Rt runners running Warmongers and Splinter Weap. But I guess it's just a matter of time before there's a new gold standard for gank defense runners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

A convert buff isn't going to do anything to hurt water hexers or the like, those hexes are almost never covered anyway.

That's actually very true. That might've been the ideal kind of removal buff in that it doesn't hurt short-term disruption hexes at all.

My comment on the update is that certain skills were touched too lightly. Really, what's +2r on Reaper's Mark do? Most Necros are busy spamming their other crap already. It needs a serious nerf, not a pretend nerf.

Draikin · Jun 20, 2007, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Nice update indeed. I don't think NR needed to be buffed however, it was already powerful enough as it is. Also nice to see Anet paying more attention to these threads, and I hope the discussions over at the HvH forum are being read as well. In particular skills like Recall, Shadow Prison, Expose Defenses and Black Lotus Strike should be reviewed to stop assassins from completely dominating the metagame the way they are now, and it just so happens to be that Ensign's list of changes would solve a lot of the problems in HvH as well.

Sabe · Jun 20, 2007, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Yeah this update is v.good with the change to convert it should mean that hex teams now have to think of what they are doing rather than just spamming hexes on targets.

pah01 · Jun 20, 2007, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Dear Andrew Patrick

Thank you for posting. A significant number of people in the PVP community are probably very pleased that you have flagged this thread and Ensigns thread for reading.

Please continue to do so.

There are some things that you can do to keep the feedback to a high standard from the community.

The gladiators arena here is well moderated and foolish PVE vs PVP discussions and less intelligent posts are cleaned out of threads.

There are some forums -- gwonline for one where this is not true and one would hope that Arenanet never seeks any real feedback from there. While some high level players like Tiyuri do try very hard to educate that forum it has long been a fruitless enterprise.

Quality @ Guru pls :P

Joe