Curse

Age · Mar 12, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

How is kiting griefing and bodyblocking isn't? What world are you living in where you make arbitrary rules to determine your opponent's playstyle?

Don't be a scrub, and play to win. Read David Sirlin's series on Playing to Win and stop playing a different game than the rest of us.

What is wrong with bodyblocking it works in football and other sports as well as that is what escorts ship and fighters are for?Use the armor for what it is for and how would it effect the team.It is like this what is more important in term of the military a Doctor and Nurses or a grunt.It is a grunt jop to defend thoes Doctors and Nurses at all costs.How long does it take to train a Dr. compared to a grunt 8 years a grunt 1 or 3 months.It take time to get players to get skilled at playing Monk but it doesn't take that long to play as a Warrior.I don't kite.I am 2 finger typest but I play a great Monk.

Byron · Mar 12, 2006, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

just about everyone should bring A defensive stance/skill (note the emphasis on A) because it's best to not always count on your teammates rescuing you.

I'd agree, but go beyond that. To make a good competitive build, it seems top guilds fill half of their skillbars with defensive skills. These skills are more often "team suport," but still defensive in nature. By this observation, kiting, it seems, is not enough.
Yeah, so any bonding-based builds would reduce the need for defensive skills. But how many spike teams did we see in the World Championships? That is, how many did we see win?

These skills may not be the most directly defensive skills your referrring to, but humor me. Warrior is used for the most basic and reliable offensive power, yes?

>>typical GvG warrior
[offense skill][offense skill][shock/CoP/etc][frenzy][endure pain][rush/sprint/charge][heal sig][res sig]

Those bold ones are defensive, arent they? Rush/sprint can be used for anti-kite, but its most useful when used before endure pain for anti-death on an assault gone sour.

>>Monks and flag runners, obviously, often go over 4 defensive skill slots. Even kiting and with supporting healers, a boon prot is still at the mercy of a coordinated team spike.

>>Mesmers and elementalists, when not healers, will likely bring a snare and/or blinder on top of wards and distortion. Even e-denial, when used on a non-healer, is inherintly defensive.

This evolved shape of competitive 8v8 teams, with their defensive overload, means that kiting won't save you. And all this above crap, IMO, means that offense > defense+kiting. That's one of the reasons pvp is so bloody interesting.

Byron · Mar 12, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

It take time to get players to get skilled at playing Monk but it doesn't take that long to play as a Warrior.

>>I'll get banned for double posting...meh.

That's just false, my friend. To play anything good takes practice and experience in barrel-loads. It's easy to be a lousy monk, but its really easy to be a lousy warrior.

wheel · Mar 13, 2006, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

What is wrong with bodyblocking it works in football and other sports as well as that is what escorts ship and fighters are for?Use the armor for what it is for and how would it effect the team.It is like this what is more important in term of the military a Doctor and Nurses or a grunt.It is a grunt jop to defend thoes Doctors and Nurses at all costs.How long does it take to train a Dr. compared to a grunt 8 years a grunt 1 or 3 months.It take time to get players to get skilled at playing Monk but it doesn't take that long to play as a Warrior.I don't kite.I am 2 finger typest but I play a great Monk.

I didn't say that bodyblocking is bad. It's a very very useful tactic. However, I was disagreeing with the argument that kiting is arbitrarily "unfair" or a "bad tactic," whereas bodyblocking isn't. If you don't kite, you are a bad monk.

Vindexus · Mar 13, 2006, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

I don't kite.I am 2 finger typest but I play a great Monk.

I'm afraid that is simply not true. You maybe think you're a good monk, but since you don't kite I can tell that you are really quite bad.

Age · Mar 13, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

I'm afraid that is simply not true. You maybe think you're a good monk, but since you don't kite I can tell that you are really quite bad.

I kept 7 players alive in the Dragons Lair Mission and the same as in the HoH during beta and I do very well in RA.You have never seen me Monk before so don't judge me.

JR · Mar 13, 2006, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I kept 7 players alive in the Dragons Lair Mission and the same as in the HoH during beta and I do very well in RA.You have never seen me Monk before so don't judge me.

I wonder if you realise the amusement a lot of people get from your posts?

Using PvE and RA as a measure of your skill is near enough the epitome of scrubness.

Joe Martin · Mar 13, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Your profession says Mo/W, so I'm gonna go ahead and guess that you "don't need to kite" because you're a Bonetti's Defense monk, which is inherently a bad idea anyways because your energy management is entirely dependant upon the fact that a warrior is going to be beating on you. Bad idea.

Vindexus · Mar 13, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I kept 7 players alive in the Dragons Lair Mission and the same as in the HoH during beta and I do very well in RA.You have never seen me Monk before so don't judge me.

I play a great Warrior even though I frenzy through Spiteful Spirit + Empathy. Although that's a scrub move you've never seen me Warrior and I once beat Sanctum Cay with henchies so don't judge me.

Byron · Mar 14, 2006, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

I play a great Warrior even though I frenzy through Spiteful Spirit + Empathy. Although that's a scrub move you've never seen me Warrior and I once beat Sanctum Cay with henchies so don't judge me.

Ouch. If Age manages to get this joke, he/she will likely break down into tears. I certainly would...

Oh and Age, take it from a fellow pvp noob: PvE and RA are about 10% the difficulty of <1000 GvG, and that is no exaguration. I'm sorry you got torn apart, but it is for the better in the long run.

Lorien of Mandos · Mar 15, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

anyone that brings defense of any kind, or attempts to avoid my damage is a hax0r and a cheater and I will report them to ANet - gg.

[/sarcasm]

Age · Mar 15, 2006, 02:40 AM // 02:40

I guess I will have to go and get some string and learn how to kite

.Trips would be nice mostly from other Monks.

Lorien of Mandos · Mar 15, 2006, 03:02 AM // 03:02

1. dont kite away from your support, make sure to watch your radar and stay within range of your other monks.
2. If you have a trapper on your team, make sure they alert the team as to where dust traps, etc are so you can kite through those - make sure you know which party member is your trapper and kite towards them when kiting
3. Use wards to your advantage - kite through them
4. dont kite away from your support...you get the idea

I probably missed some, but those should help

Age · Mar 15, 2006, 03:18 AM // 03:18

I heard the expression wards before what exactly are they?thanks

Lorien of Mandos · Mar 15, 2006, 03:29 AM // 03:29

They are elementalist spells. Ward vs melee increases your chance to dodge attacks, ward vs. foes makes enemies move more slowly in affected area, ward vs elements increases your defense vs elemental damage and ward vs harm (an elite) grants an armor bonus vs all damage with bonus armor vs fire dmg while in the affected area. I dont have full details for each memorized, but Im sure the skill list on this very site has all the information about each that you need.

all are earth magic except ward vs harm, which is water

Byron · Mar 15, 2006, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I guess I will have to go and get some string and learn how to kite

.Trips would be nice mostly from other Monks.

Not much to it, actually. When engaged by a warrior, run away, but in a fashion so that you stay in range of the people you need to heal. Use QWES instead of WASD to maximize movement, and try to keep your back to the warrior while running to stay the farthest away possibile. Stop to cast heals and spells as needed, then keep kiting.

And if you find yourself engaged by a crip-shot ranger or a fireball ele, strafing back and forth can dodge his arrows and spells sometimes.

Vindexus · Mar 15, 2006, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I guess I will have to go and get some string and learn how to kite

I really respect that you are willing to try what others are telling you is good. Especially since we're backing it up and using proper grammar, so that makes us seem like we're right.

Remember kids, when you type with eGrammar, you are obviously retarded and therefore your entire post is wrong.

tafy69 · Mar 15, 2006, 09:53 AM // 09:53

I was shouting at a mesmer the other day for not kiting when a frenzy warrior had been attacking him for a minute solid.

He replied "I didnt need to kite because i had loads of monk enchants on me that made me block and stuff etc etc.

I had to kick the noob after we lost lol, btw yes I did tell him you should kite no matter what but he wouldnt listen

Kite even if the warrior is blinded!

JR · Mar 15, 2006, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

And if you find yourself engaged by a crip-shot ranger or a fireball ele, strafing back and forth can dodge his arrows and spells sometimes.

Or indeed the more common Air ele; Orb strafing action is key.

moriz · Mar 16, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

one of the best ways to practice strafing is to fight those river skales in presearing. i did it when i made my mesmer. cast empathy, and then strafe until they kill themselves.

when kiting (these are some observations i've made from my time doing RA, but some of them could be used elsewhere):

DO run to the place where your trapper had placed a few traps. nothing more satisfying to see those annoying warriors go up in a puff of smoke.
DO run into active wards, or toward warders on your team.
if you can run faster than your pursuers, DO run around sludge pits. the warriors might run straight into the pits and slow themselves down.
DO try to hug the corners and walls. the warriors after you might get themselves stuck when you run the corner tightly.

remember that kiting is easier on some classes and is much more difficult in others. rangers are pretty bad at kiting because of the amount of delays on their firing action, essentially making them quite useless while kiting. casters (especially fast casting ones) are usually easier because they don't have to deal with so much delays.