Curse

Nurse With Wound · Jul 31, 2007, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Few people asked me to start this poll. Even though last one I made ( killcount ), gave clear results that HA players aren't enjoying that format ( see thread discussion for arguments ), Anet decided to ignore the results. I have no doubts that this one will fall of deaf ears as well. But here it comes...

Do you want heroes to be banned from Heroes' Ascent?
You have 4 options, so please choose one, and post which option did you choose, and why. Even though this poll is for Heroes Ascent only, feel free to discuss heroes and their impact on PVP in general( GVG included ). Have in mind that offtopic and blatant flaming of other posters won't be tolerated.

Squinty · Jul 31, 2007, 07:37 PM // 19:37

I voted against them but that is not to say they should never be allowed in HA (but that option is not available in the poll) if the player who takes the heros had to control their targets and skill usage and there was no AI involved it would be true PVP assisted by heros, if this happened the current popular Heroway builds would soon disappear very quickly.

shoogi · Jul 31, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

The main problem with heroes is that they play the olias bars better than humans do, which is probably correct.
On the other hand, we should remember that machines aren't perfect. They might have perfect reflexes and access to knowledge that human players dont have (such as when does each of their nova/tainted/hex end), but heroes got a big weakness- they can't respond to different events. For instance, an Olias will not understand that a pd mesmer is on it and will keep randomly casting spells. It doesn't know that it is wasting energy and time. It will ignore the effects of dazed. It will behave normally with a diversion, backfire, arcane langour or any other such hex on it. That's were the human player comes in- the controlling player will cancel his hero's spell if that hero got diversion, for example. With time, the controlling player will collapse out of pressure (can take seconds, or minutes, depends on the player's expertise).
Heroes got many unfair advantages over humans, yes. But they got some flaws that any human player doesn't have.
I still vote to kick heroes out since they ruin the fun, purpose and essence of PvP.

Div · Jul 31, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

No heroes in HA or GvG. I'd imagine there's nothing more demoralizing than losing to a guild 300 ranks lower than you on the ladder while they're running heroway. Sure, top guilds can beat it, but it kills new guilds trying to get up the ladder and learn how to play balanced builds.

Ben-A-BoO · Jul 31, 2007, 10:31 PM // 22:31

/Voted "no place in pvp"

Though to be honest more because of being annoyed then actually having a real problem with them.

The Heroway-Meta is not so hard to counter ... if you get enough counters in your team build ... but that is were the problems starts. Designing builds to just counter a certain build limits the fun of the game to a certain extend at the moment...

Cheers,
Timebandit

argh · Jul 31, 2007, 10:37 PM // 22:37

I wish I could vote against Heroes in HA but then being a r3, it's so difficult to find a decent group who can get 1 fame per run so I'll have to stick to with heroes. It really helps the starters.

kev doppleganger · Jul 31, 2007, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Get Heroes Outta Pvp Alltogether Gtfo Now!!!!!

Lorekeeper · Jul 31, 2007, 11:20 PM // 23:20

i dont even think its necessary to poll this. The solution is obvious and there really arent any convincing arguments otherwise.

take heroes out altogether or limit them to 2.

i voted for 2 because i think its a compromise and i think compromise is the best way forward for issues like this.

GvG certainly needs the option for a couple of heroes in case of last minute emergencies or disconnects. HA being the more casual venue could probably go without heroes but id be fine with seeing how a 2 hero limit would play out before banning them completely.

Theres just no convincing legitimate reason to keep things as they are.

Not one person has posted in such a way that might change my mind to think otherwise. Until someone does, ill stand by my point.

Jessyi · Jul 31, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

I voted that they have no place in PvP.

Reason: duh.

-Jessyi

Teh [prefession]-zorz · Jul 31, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Yes. they have no place in PLAYER VS PLAYER.

LifesRestorer · Jul 31, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

i dont even think its necessary to poll this. The solution is obvious and there really arent any convincing arguments otherwise.

take heroes out altogether or limit them to 2.

i voted for 2 because i think its a compromise and i think compromise is the best way forward for issues like this.

GvG certainly needs the option for a couple of heroes in case of last minute emergencies or disconnects. HA being the more casual venue could probably go without heroes but id be fine with seeing how a 2 hero limit would play out before banning them completely.

Theres just no convincing legitimate reason to keep things as they are.

Not one person has posted in such a way that might change my mind to think otherwise. Until someone does, ill stand by my point.

exactly the way i thought, except i voted for one. i cant really see a time when in GvG 2 people disconnect, calling for the hero wildcard.
in a HA format with 1 hero, you still have to get 7... so its kinda like... hey, i waited this long, i can spare 2 more minutes to get an 8th.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jul 31, 2007, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

not really, it just means you get to r6 before you realise you suck and now the learning curve is broken for you.

This man wins the thread.

I voted for 1 btw.

Stormlord Alex · Jul 31, 2007, 11:46 PM // 23:46

I vote to kick 'em out of PvP.
I'm not a big-time PvP player (heh, not a big player much at all anymore... mostly troll Campfire ^_^), but when I do PvP, I sure as hell want to fight actual, human competition; rather than Olias and his posse of retarded thumpers.

Though... reading Lore's post, maybe complete banning is a bit OTT - I'd certainly not mind (myself, or the opponent) drafting in a hero or two in the even of a D/C.

Despozblehero · Jul 31, 2007, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Even if left with the ability to take 1-2 heros its still not a good idea... people will just design builds around olias/master of whispers, remove them altogether, theres a place to play with heros, HvH, they even give you rewards for doing it (god knows why, but whatever). So leave heros there and PvE remove them from eveything else anything else is asking for problems... if you need a filler grab a ziashen, if the ziashen are too terrible for you well PuG or get a guild or use the flist... too many options available to justify the im too new to find a group excuse...

P.S. ziashen bars could be reworked a little...

Kyp Jade · Aug 01, 2007, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Any other suggestions?

Put HoH entrance back im tomb of primeval kinds, at least that had some eye candy to it, more than a volcano island of HA

remove heroes from pvp plz, if i wanted to play against bots ill pull up a console game.

Melody Cross · Aug 01, 2007, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Everyone was a newbie once. Lets keep that kind of talk out of the discussion. It will help to keep it serious and--no matter which side you take--I think everyone here would like their views taken seriously

I think the "unfairness" of heroes in higher end PvP comes from server ping. On these days when there is a lot of lag, people run heroway and win. Its not through skill; just an exploit of a flaw in the games servers at that time.

Heroes can bolster a group that would otherwise spend hours looking for their eighth. Thats a good thing, a plus for them. But I don't think teams should be comprised to use them as exclusively as some do right now. Cut back the number of heroes a team can use and much of the complaining would go away. But I don't think they should be completely removed.

GGs

masteroflife · Aug 01, 2007, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Vote for heroes Completely out of HA.
Reason? Do I really have to repeated it?

There better be a big update to HA before this weekend.

moko · Aug 01, 2007, 03:00 PM // 15:00

no heroes in PvP.

Despozblehero · Aug 01, 2007, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melody Cross

I think the "unfairness" of heroes in higher end PvP comes from server ping. On these days when there is a lot of lag, people run heroway and win. Its not through skill; just an exploit of a flaw in the games servers at that time.

Heroes can bolster a group that would otherwise spend hours looking for their eighth. Thats a good thing, a plus for them. But I don't think teams should be comprised to use them as exclusively as some do right now. Cut back the number of heroes a team can use and much of the complaining would go away. But I don't think they should be completely removed.

No, lag has like 1% to do with the problem with heroway imho... 99% is the heros themselves... if you REALLY need that 8th man to "fill" in your spot theres always Ziashen (they need your love too)... but considering your resources; Guild, Alliance, Friends List, and the Average amount of players that should be there saying "r1-12 lfg", you shouldnt be stuck thinking that your "Heros" are your only option... and if your new you should be ESPECIALLY encouraged to use these tools ,other than heros, they will make your gaming experience MUCH more enjoyable for a MUCH longer time...

If you leave even 1 Hero it leaves the possibility of seeing more of the garbage we have now. Someone will find something they can do well and design a build around it. I've no desire to ever see that again... Remove them from everything but HvH (cause they HAVE to be there ;p) and PvE, cause theyre ok there.

leeky baby · Aug 01, 2007, 04:00 PM // 16:00

no heros, not like its hard to beat.. just boring