Curse

erk · Oct 08, 2007, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

I like the idea of reducing the AoE of spirits.

You don't have to reduce the AoE, just set a minimum space requirement between spirits. eg. make it so you can't have two dissimilar spirits within earshot of each other, or the latter one cast replaces the first one. Leave the range etc. the same, that will stop tight clumping of spirits which currently makes them very hard to destroy. It would also put a bit of thought/skill into spirit placement which would be good for the game, as it's quite mindless atm.

kvndoom · Oct 08, 2007, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Earshot would be overkill. Maybe nearby range. Really, Anet needs to re-nerf Communing. Channeling and Restoration aren't that bad. Communing is where the problem spirits lie, coupled with the fact that there is no need to put a single point in the Rit's primary attribute to be effective. It still irks me that Anet let Rits ruin PVP for 5 months, then nerfed them literally weeks before Nightfall came out.

glountz · Oct 08, 2007, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

Earshot would be overkill. Maybe nearby range. Really, Anet needs to re-nerf Communing. Channeling and Restoration aren't that bad. Communing is where the problem spirits lie, coupled with the fact that there is no need to put a single point in the Rit's primary attribute to be effective. It still irks me that Anet let Rits ruin PVP for 5 months, then nerfed them literally weeks before Nightfall came out.

I find that communing is too do-it-all. You have in there spirits that prots (Shelter, Union, Displacement, Soothing, Restoration), spirits that hurts (Anguish, Pain) spirits that disrupt (Shadowsong, Disenchantment, Dissonance, Wanderlust). In short, you can be an effective damage dealer or proter through spirits only by maxing communing.
I find that many of these spirits should be in either resto or CHanneling. But that may destroy the communing attribute himself. I would rather see all spirits gathered in COmmuning, then their effect (damage or protection) based on restoration or channeling. Yeah it would be strange, but I feel that communing is too strong because it can achieve too much things through the spirits it gives.

Bankai · Oct 08, 2007, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

You don't have to reduce the AoE, just set a minimum space requirement between spirits. eg. make it so you can't have two dissimilar spirits within earshot of each other, or the latter one cast replaces the first one. Leave the range etc. the same, that will stop tight clumping of spirits which currently makes them very hard to destroy. It would also put a bit of thought/skill into spirit placement which would be good for the game, as it's quite mindless atm.

Tight clumping of spirits making them hard to destroy?

Tight clumping of spirits makes them very easy to kill with AoE.

LifesRestorer · Oct 08, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

I find that communing is too do-it-all. You have in there spirits that prots (Shelter, Union, Displacement, Soothing, Restoration), spirits that hurts (Anguish, Pain) spirits that disrupt (Shadowsong, Disenchantment, Dissonance, Wanderlust). In short, you can be an effective damage dealer or proter through spirits only by maxing communing.
I find that many of these spirits should be in either resto or CHanneling. But that may destroy the communing attribute himself. I would rather see all spirits gathered in COmmuning, then their effect (damage or protection) based on restoration or channeling. Yeah it would be strange, but I feel that communing is too strong because it can achieve too much things through the spirits it gives.

i like this idea. not really too sure how it will work completely but i really agree with you that communing is too do it all.

Kyp Jade · Oct 08, 2007, 04:55 PM // 16:55

I like spirits, I like using holy spear too. Buff holy spear so I can get another few screenshots of yellow 90's over my entire screen.

Riotgear · Oct 08, 2007, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

I find that communing is too do-it-all. You have in there spirits that prots (Shelter, Union, Displacement, Soothing, Restoration), spirits that hurts (Anguish, Pain) spirits that disrupt (Shadowsong, Disenchantment, Dissonance, Wanderlust). In short, you can be an effective damage dealer or proter through spirits only by maxing communing.
I find that many of these spirits should be in either resto or CHanneling. But that may destroy the communing attribute himself. I would rather see all spirits gathered in COmmuning, then their effect (damage or protection) based on restoration or channeling. Yeah it would be strange, but I feel that communing is too strong because it can achieve too much things through the spirits it gives.

I'd rather see the effects moved to Spawning Power, personally, especially on spirits that don't have their effectiveness linked to their max health.

erk · Oct 09, 2007, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

Tight clumping of spirits making them hard to destroy?

Tight clumping of spirits makes them very easy to kill with AoE.

And if your team doesn't have AoE what then? AoE is overated against spirits, as it usually has only an adjacent or nearby coverage, that's not a great solution when the Rit is experienced.

The reason I suggested earshot as a spacing between spirits, is due to their range being so far compared to spell, spear, bow range. Last thing you want it to be pounded by Wanderlust and Dissonance, Earthbind, at the same time whilst you are trying to cast with Natures Renewal on you. Force them apart a fair bit and it give you team a chance to whittle them down at the edges.

Bankai · Oct 09, 2007, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Oh, I guess you didn't understand what I meant.

I wanted the effects of a spirit like Displacement and Union/Shelter have a greatly reduced AoE. This means that to be affected by them, your whole team has to stand next to the spirits, making them very vulnerable to AoE.

Lord Sojar · Oct 09, 2007, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Buff Empathy to work on In the Area and do 80 damage or so, but last 4 secs. That would just be fun. I kid!

On a more serious note, buff Balthazar's Pendulum because it...um.....sucks?

erk · Oct 09, 2007, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

Oh, I guess you didn't understand what I meant.

I wanted the effects of a spirit like Displacement and Union/Shelter have a greatly reduced AoE. This means that to be affected by them, your whole team has to stand next to the spirits, making them very vulnerable to AoE.

I can't see them changing spirit's range to nearby or adjacent range though, that's what AoE needs to nuke them properly, Ward against Elements/Stability would offset a big chunk of AoE damage before Shelter/Union/Preservation kicks in. What gets though can be moped up with a Heal Area/LoD. So you would need multiple AoE casters at once to get a big enough spike, that's assuming they are not interrupted by spirits, and the people don't kite. At the moment AoE work well against wards, because the usually bring Ward against melee, and most AoE damage is elemental. Spirit spammers don't need melee with Displacement active, so they would just bring other wards, elemental armor etc.

I'm not sure encouraging tight camping near spirits is very good for overall game play, that's why I thought forcing them to spread out would give you a chance to to catch the enemy when only covered by one or two at a time instead of 6 at a time.

BlackSephir · Oct 09, 2007, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Giving spirits attack range of longbow = fail

Uetzcayotl · Oct 09, 2007, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

Spirit spammers don't need melee with Displacement active, so they would just bring other wards, elemental armor etc.

I figured adding exhaustion and reducing the range to 'area' would promote more active casting of the spirits: when you need it and where you need it. You would not be able to cast all three without some problems due to the exhaustion and no viable way for a ritualist to deal with it.

As for Ward against Melee, I'm not convinced bringing Displacement would remove the need for it, Melee can be kept up all the time with a MoR mesmer (or most of the time without MoR) whereas Displacement is up once every 30 seconds and only procs 10 times (assuming no Ritual Lord or Signet of Binding, which take up skill slots enhancing the effect of one spirit). Displacement can also be killed pretty easily.

Though I think with adding changes like these to other, it might discourage spirit camping - at least on one ritualist. As Erk mentioned, reducing the range at which spirits are replaced might work for spirits casted by two different ritualists, not on the same one.

Bankai · Oct 09, 2007, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

I can't see them changing spirit's range to nearby or adjacent range though, that's what AoE needs to nuke them properly, Ward against Elements/Stability would offset a big chunk of AoE damage before Shelter/Union/Preservation kicks in.

AoE doesn't kill people if they ball up, it kills all the spirits, rendering them useless. If you decrease the AoE on defensive spirits, the spirits will be closer together if you want a backline based on spirits. AoE will kill most spirits at the same time, rendering the backline idea useless. This means that even though it cannot be used as a backline, because all spirits will be destroyed easily, it can be used on a single ritualist providing monk back-up.

erk · Oct 09, 2007, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

AoE doesn't kill people if they ball up, it kills all the spirits, rendering them useless. If you decrease the AoE on defensive spirits, the spirits will be closer together if you want a backline based on spirits. AoE will kill most spirits at the same time, rendering the backline idea useless. This means that even though it cannot be used as a backline, because all spirits will be destroyed easily, it can be used on a single ritualist providing monk back-up.

They just cast spirts either side of where they are standing wider than crappy AoE range. Sprits are east to recast if the die, people are not. Smart Rits wont clump sprits.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 10, 2007, 05:57 AM // 05:57

wait, people give a shit about spirits? or is this just 'we only RA but here are our suggestions' post time?

Riotgear · Oct 10, 2007, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

On a more serious note, buff Balthazar's Pendulum because it...um.....sucks?

For 5...17 seconds, the next time target ally would be knocked down by a foe, that foe is knocked down instead. If that foe's knockdown was Entangling Asp, you steal 700 health from that foe, teleport to their corpse, and display your rank emote.

Fixed.

Melody Cross · Oct 10, 2007, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

For 5...17 seconds, the next time target ally would be knocked down by a foe, that foe is knocked down instead. If that foe's knockdown was Entangling Asp, you steal 700 health from that foe, teleport to their corpse, and display your rank emote.

Fixed.

In seriousness, BP is not good because it is an elite that is overspecialized. It it did a little damage per cast (not much, not even flare's damage output) it would increase its viability. As it stands, the elite is only good on a smite boon because its in smiting prayers and has a low recycle.

There are many such elites that are so specialized, tbh. Some are viable because you or your team can bring the required condition with you (EX: Steady Stance). Most aren't...and BP is one of them.

Vanquisher · Oct 10, 2007, 12:56 PM // 12:56

No one cares about skills that will never see play.

Riotgear · Oct 10, 2007, 12:58 PM // 12:58

In seriousness, there's only one thing they could do to fix it:

Balthazar's Pendulum: No longer an elite skill.

Aura of Stability is seeing play, Pendulum could potentially find the same uses, and wouldn't be particularly overpowered if they just took the totally-unnecessary yellow border off of it.