Curse

twicky_kid · Sep 28, 2007, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

WaM: make it a 25 energy spell but improve duration/recharge ratio

Only needs 15 energy cost. That will put it out of energy range for mesmers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

GoLE: the next 1...3 spells 10 energy or the next 2 spells cost 5...15 less energy

It should be changed back to the next 1 spell. Elementalist don't use it anyways.

themeteor · Sep 28, 2007, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

It should be changed back to the next 1 spell. Elementalist don't use it anyways.

Yes they do, I would go as far saying that every E/X or X/E flagger does, and that a lot for blind bots do as well and if another ele comes along into the meta they will as well.

Seamus Finn · Sep 28, 2007, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

It should be changed back to the next 1 spell. Elementalist don't use it anyways.

Wow..........

Zabe · Sep 28, 2007, 07:35 AM // 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Only needs 15 energy cost. That will put it out of energy range for mesmers.

It should be changed back to the next 1 spell. Elementalist don't use it anyways.

So, LoD is free and eles don't use glyph. You have played GW last time umm... over 2 years ago? And even back then they used glyph..

IMMORTAlMITCH · Sep 28, 2007, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

MoR: make it an enchantment like the other MoR(recall) and/or make it work on Mesmer spells only

No, just make it 10e or decrease the time that it's up or change the recharge to 33%.

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LoD: increase recharge by 2-4 seconds

No, LoD is perfectly fine as it is.

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Aegis: increase cost back to 15 and/or scaling block rate

I like this at 10e and earshot, but scaling the block rate down a little bit would be ok.

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Aggressive Refain: remove the recasting effect or giving it some kind of draw back, perhaps an increase in casting/recharge of shouts/chants while under it?

Either lower armor while affected by this or make you gain adrenaline slower.

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WaM: make it a 25 energy spell but improve duration/recharge ratio

No, 15 energy would be ok 25 is way too much, if MoR gets fixed this isnt that much of an issue anyway.

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Shields Up: increase cost/recharge

Increasing the cost would only make it not usable on warriors but still usable on paragons, either give it a cast time or decrease/remove the block % and make it give more armor to projectiles instead.

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GoLE: the next 1...3 spells 10 energy or the next 2 spells cost 5...15 less energy

Just change the unspecced value to 7e or 8e and keep the value at 9 spec and higher the same.

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another thing that should be done is increase back the offensive capabilities to be able to deal with all the defense.
improving skills that bypass blockway such expose defenses, irresistable throw/blow, seeking arrows, etc
and adding more of those

I disagree, this would just result in everyone running 4-5 physical characters, tone down the block skills, don't buff stuff that makes your attacks unblockable.

glountz · Sep 28, 2007, 09:43 AM // 09:43

MoR needs to cut recharge to 33%, like Serpent's. However, I would for this lower it's recharge so it could be upkept at 12-13 FC (a 15 duration/15recharge at 12FC - this way you also increase its energy burden as you have to spam it a bit more).

Ego · Sep 28, 2007, 10:08 AM // 10:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

It should be changed back to the next 1 spell. Elementalist don't use it anyways.

Seriously, what standard Eles DON'T use GoLE?

Please stopping suggestions. =/

Cool Spike · Sep 28, 2007, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

It should be changed back to the next 1 spell. Elementalist don't use it anyways.

So are you gonna stop posting in this thread yet?

wilson · Sep 28, 2007, 12:11 PM // 12:11

In my opinion 50% faster recharge on Mantra of Recovery is fine. Just make it work for mesmer spells only.

For 5...17 seconds, mesmer Spells you cast recharge 50% faster.

twicky_kid · Sep 28, 2007, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool Spike

So are you gonna stop posting in this thread yet?

I play blind bot in gvg. You can't rely on attunment all the time of course because it will be stripped. I don't use gole and my energy is fine. Its not a must have skill on the bar. Sure it makes everything else easier to run but you can survive without it.

glountz · Sep 28, 2007, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilson

In my opinion 50% faster recharge on Mantra of Recovery is fine. Just make it work for mesmer spells only.

For 5...17 seconds, mesmer Spells you cast recharge 50% faster.

I'm against. Mesmers can use their secondary prof thanks to that, and FC isn't a n e-management primary. This is killing diversity.
Imho, that's MoR which is a little imba. Before its boost, no one would have used Guilt or Shame on a Dom mesmer and would have sticked to Surge. So MoR by its use modify a lot spell use, bestowing spells that would have stayed unused without it.

Byron · Sep 28, 2007, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

I play blind bot in gvg. You can't rely on attunment all the time of course because it will be stripped.

But isn't that just another good reason to take GoLE?

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I don't use gole and my energy is fine. Its not a must have skill on the bar. Sure it makes everything else easier to run but you can survive without it.

Assuming you just use b-surge (no orb, no gale, no ward) without attunement or GoLE, you'd be out of energy in pretty short order. And if you were to gale and orb, as should be happening, you'd be out of energy in under a minute. With no Glyph, it'd also be hard to get out of a low-energy hole.

The question I'd like to ask is: what do you take instead of GoLE?

Thomas.knbk · Sep 28, 2007, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

I play blind bot in gvg. You can't rely on attunment all the time of course because it will be stripped. I don't use gole and my energy is fine. Its not a must have skill on the bar. Sure it makes everything else easier to run but you can survive without it.

So basically you just said a good bar with GoLE is a better bar. Who would not run a better bar over a good bar?

Bio-Flame · Sep 28, 2007, 03:29 PM // 15:29

I wouldn't touch MoR .....yet.
First I'd do something about GoLE. Then I'd wait one week or two and see.
Probably a slight nerf to Aegis might be needed.

Only after one or two more weeks would I think about MoR. I really think that GoLE is the main factor here.
Everything else is just pushed over the top with GoLE since energy is no longer a problem (and with a NO penalty other than picking */Ele)

Of course, that would mean constant, weekly updates and I have lost faith in Izzy and ANET a long long time ago.

Riotgear · Sep 28, 2007, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilson

In my opinion 50% faster recharge on Mantra of Recovery is fine. Just make it work for mesmer spells only.

For 5...17 seconds, mesmer Spells you cast recharge 50% faster.

It's causing damage to mesmer spells too. Diversion ate a nerf, Power Drain is becoming sketchy without it, etc.

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Before its boost, no one would have used Guilt or Shame on a Dom mesmer

What?

Kyp Jade · Sep 28, 2007, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

MoR: make it an enchantment like the other MoR(recall) and/or make it work on Mesmer spells only

MoR needs to be Ether Renewaled

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

LoD: increase recharge by 2-4 seconds

LoD is fine, its both elite and a 1 second cast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

Aegis: increase cost back to 15 and/or scaling block rate

Aegis is Fine, tho a cool animation would be nice for everyone affected. Since its earshot and a lot off people fail at positioning not everyone gets the benifit. Would be nice as a physical class to swap targets instead of block block block.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

Aggressive Refain: remove the recasting effect or giving it some kind of draw back, perhaps an increase in casting/recharge of shouts/chants while under it?

I play paragon, removing recasting effect of AR would ether renewal this skill, and paragons completly from PvP. Increasing cast cost is not possible. Paragons have low energy as it is. Recharge of shouts is also a bad idea. This skill has enough drawback as it is, 25 energy and not worth it to keep up in between fights. Its also 2 second cast.

Look at the gvg paragons you see. DA paragons with AR. The bigger problem is DA, and they can keep DA going without AR anyway. And these paragons are doing low DPS anyway, averaging low 20's non blocking, less with blocking. Dont even tell me about spear of lightnign spam, they cant do that all day and expect to use DA on recharge. They do have excellent energy management with gfte but its not infinity energy. Its only +6 when they are ABLE to use gfte (hard to get adren when ur attacks are blocked) and often times u want to save taht to use with vicious spear.

Also, paragons have to spec 12 in leadership to get energy like this, thats half thier attribute points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

WaM: make it a 25 energy spell but improve duration/recharge ratio

Ward is fine, its range is small, and you can target swap out of the ward, or if u really have a lot of problems with ward (ward is a cockblocker for melee classes, not any other use, its a direct counter) then take less melee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

WY: increase adrenaline cost to 6, increase duration, maybe lower armor

Only paragons use this skill, its very nice synergy with the paragon class, however The bonus is very powerful. + energy and + armor for only 4 adren is a bit imba, as a advocate of paragons, I like it, but I also realize how imba it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

Shields Up: increase cost/recharge

Shields up is far to powerful for its cost. No ranger interupts for 10 energy for x seconds? Cant make it an anthem since warriors dont use anthems, so no cast time. This skill just needs to die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

Defensive Anthem: reduce duration and/or increase recharge

This skill I have no idea how it fit into the paragon class anyway. Its like they were trying to force a paragon motivation meta to replace monks completly. This skill doesnt need to die, but it needs to be an energy investment.
A few options are
- No leadership bonus given
- increase recharge to >30s
- Make this skill easily interuptable

The best option imo is no leadership bonus. This keeps the skill practical, but also does not let the player go straight back into ready to spike mode. A paragon tahts doing his job has energy hovering between 15-20 anyway. This will reduce his energy below ten and force him to spend a few seconds building up again. This puts him in line with the warrior class in terms of effeciency after a spike. (waste all adren and energy, spend 10s getting full again)

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

GoLE: the next 1...3 spells 10 energy or the next 2 spells cost 5...15 less

I like your suggestion of the next 1..3 spells, however the energy also needs to scale 10...xxx energy. Make this skill excelent for elementalists to use. However kill it for non elementalists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

Paragorn and to some extent Warrior Shouts/Chants in general: increase duration and recharge to make them less spammable thus less energy gain from leadership and less effects on echoes
let the match roll for 20-30 minutes before VoD

Increasinging duration is pointless, paragon shouts all end on attack (the useful ones anyway), they are used when they are needed, and its nice to have them more active, ie: ready to use when u need them. The problem is the paragon using DA, and secondary class skills (they ward nice too u know). However when they do this, they not only sacrifice a lot of pressure they could do, and any secondary class spells they use arent very effective (who cares about a 14s ward?) And DA needs to be looked at anyway.

lordelg · Sep 28, 2007, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

I play blind bot in gvg. You can't rely on attunment all the time of course because it will be stripped. I don't use gole and my energy is fine. Its not a must have skill on the bar. Sure it makes everything else easier to run but you can survive without it.

Wow your pr0.... you really dont know how the BSurge bar should be played... go back to pve

Thomas.knbk · Sep 28, 2007, 05:36 PM // 17:36

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Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

removing recasting effect of AR would ether renewal this skill, and paragons completly from PvP.

Sounds like a plan.

Something I just thought of: lose 10..6 energy every time it's reapplied? m'kay?

IMMORTAlMITCH · Sep 28, 2007, 05:56 PM // 17:56

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Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

I play paragon, random nonsense.

Aggressive refrain is overpowered, as a paragon I'm sure you don't like to see it get nerfed, fact is it needs a nerf, what other class has a permanent 25% ias that doesnt cost any energy (if your aggressive drops, apart from when you die, you're bad)

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Also, paragons have to spec 12 in leadership to get energy like this, thats half thier attribute points.

Fortunately they don't have to spec in anything BUT spear mastery and leadership (and tactics if they're P/W) and seeing as they have 9001 armor they can easily get away with 1 or 2 major runes.

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Ward is fine, its range is small, and you can target swap out of the ward, or if u really have a lot of problems with ward (ward is a cockblocker for melee classes, not any other use, its a direct counter) then take less melee.

It's really difficult to pressure with a build with less than 1 melee character (aside from hexes), wards are fine on eles, but on mesmers they're problematic.

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Only paragons use this skill, its very nice synergy with the paragon class, however The bonus is very powerful. + energy and + armor for only 4 adren is a bit imba, as a advocate of paragons, I like it, but I also realize how imba it is.

It's imba, but you like it... Compelling argument, I'm convinced, let's keep this as it is..

Kyp Jade · Sep 28, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

@ IMMORTALMITCH

Aggresive is a nice, semi permanent IAS. Your right, no class has a permanent IAS , and aggressive is not permanent, it requires an upkeep cost.
25 energy is the paragons energy pool, and you cant really do anything to the skill cost/duration/recharge more than it already has been done. And its not free, you have to be active with your shouts, or it drops. Adrenal shouts in gvg with 100000 blocks/miss in a row is not free, so your reduced to anthem of flame spam, which requires u to have 5 energy available.

Im sure you can easily find somethign other than a warrior that does pressure. Paragons do decent pressure (not DA paras, they suck, 20dps is shit). Fire eles do decent pressure, a tainter does decent pressure. Oh yea, I forgot in my prev post, wam also stops players who only 3-2-1 adrenal spike too. Dont see whats bad about that.

About WY:
Go die, i said it was imba what more do u want, even i think it needs nerf.

@ Thomas

Losing 10-6 energy per reactivation is a bit much, however losing energy with this skill is the way to go imo , and also requires the player to be a lot better on energy management. In fact of all the suggestions to mess with AR, this is the best one.

Paragons DONT have infinite energy, but they have the second best inherent energy management in the game (after necromancers ofc)

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