Curse

Vinnyman · Sep 28, 2007, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

not being rezzed is a thing all PvPers should get used to, even more so in RA. In RA you should actually count it a blessing that you get rezzed rather than behave like it should happen all the time without thought. You entered RANDOM arenas. You should be aware of the sort of experience you are entering. Its RANDOM. You might even get teamed up with someone who decides to rez you with light of dwayna. You might get teamed up with 3 other people who do not even have rez sig or any other form of rez on their bar. Face facts. RA is unpredictable. Your demand to be rezzed in RA is irrational not the fact that you didnt get rezzed. Maybe now that more people are actually fighting in RA rather than clicking leave and enter over and over the overall quality of players you find in RA will increase and maybe then you will be able to expect to be rezzed rather than not. But that will take some time. But until this happens i would suggest everyone just treat their experiences in RA with a huge pinch of salt. Dont expect miracles.

Oh really? so you approve of me sitting in a match for 10 min not being rezzed, while I could simply leave and jump into another match? I don't see your logic in this statement. I never implied or demanded for others to rez me or ask for a "miracle." Time is money, and that's something that I DON'T take with a grain of salt. Ever heard of being more productive with your time? Obviously not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

actually there have been some very positive comments made in this thread, shame you didnt bother to read through it all and came up with that inaccurate summary. Go to the RA lobby and you will notice that there are quite a few more districts than what is normal. If there are more people playing RA i cant help but think that these new updates have been a good thing rather than bad.

Actually I did read the entire thread. Did you read what you wrote? This thread, which DOES NOT account for the majority of the RA population that has given nothing but negative feedback about this system. And yes, I surfed through the American AND international district? So now your point is?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

RA isnt the place to go for true die hard PvP enthusiasts. Seriously. Go TA. or GvG. If you have the patience, go HA.
They made these changes to make RA accessible to more players, which for the most part it does. By reducing the amount of wins needed to gain points, even beginners have more chance to win points that reward them for their efforts. That is the hook needed to make RA more accessible to more players. not only are points easier to win, the lower ranks of the glad title are well within reach of a casual RA player once he/she gets to know a few tricks in PvP.

It is for me if I want to take a break from GvG, or HA. Stop being pessimistic and realize that not everyone in RA is a noob fresh off the boat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

In addition to this, the system rewards the better players who compete in TA. The higher tiers of the glad title system are not so easy to gain at a casual pace. But with the addition of bonus points for continual 5win streaks the better players and teams can climb the title system at a much faster pace than the beginners.

So as far as i can see it, Anet did a good job of creating a system that caters to both the casual crowd and the hardcore crowd.

I have no quarrels with the new glad system. Honestly, this problem stemmed when the glad system was implemented back when Factions was released. Why reward people for randomness? Notice that people treat RA and TA as if it was GvG and HA? DUH!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

hows that for positive feedback?

Not very good at it.

But seriously, you're missing my point. RA and TA were meant for casual games. That feel is gone.

Bankai · Sep 28, 2007, 02:55 PM // 14:55

They don't want you to leave when you're dead because it's RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing annoying to start rezzing something and just before your res sig finishes casting they leave.

glountz · Sep 28, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Dishonorable is a joke and it's bugged. We shouldn't have to wait for a few people to chase eachother around the map before we can leave and start up again. It needs to be brought back so that it triggers only in the first minute, or summink. Just the thought of waiting for ten minutes while 2 wammos tank each other makes me not want to play RA at all.

If such is your mindset, you shouldn't have begun to play RA in the first place.
You'd rather go to TA, to build clever teams, face real and skilled opposition. Gaining my first glad in TA was a lot more rewarding than all the ones I had in RA. RA is RA. It's random, for newbs. Now that griefers can be punished and leavers too, that's a fair place to start fighting for newcomers without being disgusted in 3 matches from PvP .

_June · Sep 28, 2007, 03:01 PM // 15:01

I welcome these updates..

1. It makes it easier for newbs who want a gladiator title
(Imo less QQ about the update destroying the title, it has never meant anything to begin with and I'm sure I'm not the only one that believes that)

2. The Dishonor system will put a patch on all the Afkers and Lamers, sure it has some holes that need to be worked out..but I think most people welcome this change as it has been a problem for far too long.

3. A side note: I think that the added /report into the game is the best improvement they can and have made so far..All too often people get away with offenses because people often either don't know how/were to report or are just too lazy, time to clean up Guild Wars a little :P

(I may get flamed for #3 but I don't care

)

Spirit Of Flurry · Sep 28, 2007, 03:07 PM // 15:07

There would be so issues to attend to with this new change, not everything can be prevented, so keep it cool, report the issues like 3 monks healing no stop, and such and I'm pretty sure that Dev Team will take a look at it.

PS: Please where is our emote for Glad Titles?, how much longer we will have to wait ?, I'm Glad 7 Pre-update I think i deserve a emote for it.

kvndoom · Sep 28, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera

Wow, my first run in TA we faced:
Starting to see a pattern there? A lot of people are just laming because with those @*(#&@*(#& lame builds it's so easy to just farm gladpoints. It's not a single bit fun to play against the same lame build again, over and over.

Surely it's the build also that needs to hit to death with the nerfbat, and even be hit while it's on the floor writhing in pain. But there are so many other lame builds people will play because TA will not need any flexibility anymore, just a one-trick-pony will be enough to get 5 wins and thus points.

That is more a problem with infrequent and half-assed skill balances than it is with leavers and griefers. Stale skill updating has hurt PVP more than anything else anyway.

African War Lord · Sep 28, 2007, 03:25 PM // 15:25

RA is unplayable now for good players. It's just too annoying. There will be, and already is a huge increase in bad players making this arena no longer a fun place to play quick games. There were bad players before but I wasn't forced to play with them.

this is the norm. and I'm not saying this to be funny, one of those monk had charge as his elite and used heal sig. I know this cause I had to painfully stay and watch him die. not to mention the mending ranger and his fury of passion for the game lol.

one monk left, so I left. still got dishonour.

Forcing people to play through every team they get is unrealistic. RA was annoying enough before but it's broken now. I can't play for 10 minutes cause I left a 3 monk team that already had one person leave.

I'm interested to see the adjustments made, there's been some pretty good suggestions. but for now, no more RA for me.

Divineshadows · Sep 28, 2007, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

You have no right to complain. This update was made to punish lamers like you.

Aera: Take advantage of it, and directly counter them. Use a skill like Rust/Ignorance.

I'm going to say what everyone else on the forums was thinking when they read your comments above....

You're an idiot.

yum · Sep 28, 2007, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

In addition to this, the system rewards the better players who compete in TA. The higher tiers of the glad title system are not so easy to gain at a casual pace. But with the addition of bonus points for continual 5win streaks the better players and teams can climb the title system at a much faster pace than the beginners

Dude, I think you have no idea what farming is. 5 cons wins for a glad point makes the tittle easily farmable and thus destroyes the title. Don't tell me that better players will earn points faster than farmers, you are plain wrong. A good player who plays like 1-3 hours a day wont be able to compete with a farmer who whould play 24/7.

Well, let me give you some examples of farming. You know the game SRO? Let say killing 3 mobs give you 1 skill point AT lvl 16, and 16->17 gives you like 100 sps. At lvl 17, it took like 1/2 h to delevel back to 16 (in the best case, because some bastards will ks the mob you lure to suicide and there are many mobs.) That combining with the considerable time to repot, repair weapons, and ks the 3432532432 others who do the same thing wont stop the farmer from getting 200k sp in some weeks. Ye 200000 sp. Oh and did I mention my all time favorite L2?

I play GW because I am too tired of farming to achieve something. When I started pve, I hoped that there was no farming. Then gradually, I saw farming everywhere, so I quit pve for good. Then I ventured into pvp, after struggling to unlock TA, I sweared never entering RA again. Well, after some experiences of getting into crappy teams that took like 30 mins to organize (I was a noob), I thought I'd rather go back to RA since i had no time for that. Then HA, at first I thought it must be something very special because my noob r0 char couldn't find a group (my first HA team was wiped by zaishen

), and I didnt mind that. But then when I was able to get into decent groups, I saw Olias everywhere ( now N/rt)....

If I want to compete with farmers, I'll play L2 not GW. Heck, I don't even know why people farm in GW pve, it is plain stupid. Spending tons of time just to be "cool"? Lmao.
GG Anet.
Srry for the bad English, I am not native speaker.

martialis · Sep 28, 2007, 03:33 PM // 15:33

You spent all that time and made us wait for this??

I hate it. It's terrible. I suggest removing the /report option from everywhere but AB, and even that's not a good solution. Enforcing good behaviour by manual reporting by other players is just never a good solution. I think that would be obvious.

You've solved the problems of leaving and griefing in RA with the automatic time-outs and the time limit. The only other possible problem is leeching in RA, which isn't a problem now, and shouldn't become one without leavers, but it has a simple solution anyway. Change the glad title back.

Leeching is much harder to stop. I guess you're on the right track, but this system is just really badly implemented. I think raising the requirement for a successful report and removing the backfire from false reports would prevent most abuse. Although not all.

Lord Natural · Sep 28, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by African War Lord

RA is unplayable now for good players. It's just too annoying. There will be, and already is a huge increase in bad players making this arena no longer a fun place to play quick games. There were bad players before but I wasn't forced to play with them.

Pretty much. So they've pleased the noobs who enjoy wammo tank battles and healing with 2 other monks on their team, and pissed off the people who actually play RA. This isn't an atypical anet strategy imo. I don't think they'll stop until every form of pvp is unplayable.

RA is actually less efficient now anyway, if you're working on a glad title track. 3 pts. per 10 wins, but they've multiplied the ranks by 4. But hey, the players too crappy to get 10 wins can now scrap 5 winners together to get their glad 1, so all this was worthwhile I guess

Lorekeeper · Sep 28, 2007, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

Dude, I think you have no idea what farming is. 5 cons wins for a glad point makes the tittle easily farmable and thus destroyes the title. Don't tell me that better players will earn points faster than farmers, you are plain wrong. A good player who plays like 1-3 hours a day wont be able to compete with a farmer who whould play 24/7.

Well, let me give you some examples of farming. You know the game SRO? Let say killing 3 mobs give you 1 skill point AT lvl 16, and 16->17 gives you like 100 sps. At lvl 17, it took like 1/2 h to delevel back to 16 (in the best case, because some bastards will ks the mob you lure to suicide and there are many mobs.) That combining with the considerable time to repot, repair weapons, and ks the 3432532432 others who do the same thing wont stop the farmer from getting 200k sp in some weeks. Ye 200000 sp. Oh and did I mention my all time favorite L2?

''dude'' you do realise this is a PvP discussion? Please try not to post stuff about how you farm in PvE, you will just get laughed at.

You need to read the new glad point system through better, they did not ONLY reduce the requirement for winning glad points to only 5 wins, they increased the number of gladiator points needed to get a certain rank.

yes, a medicore player with all the time in the world will be able to grind 5 wins at a time but do you realise how long it will take to get the higher ranks in the glad system?

The fact that people can grind titles is something i can accept. Its happened in PvE, its happened to the Hero title. In little ways it happened to the Champ title at various points of its life.

If someone has got the time to spend playing the game 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Who am i to stop them from getting glad points? Sure go ahead!

But what you dont seem to understand in your very very narrow view of things is that at the end of the day there is a big difference between a mediocre player who had to grind his titles through sheer hours of play and a good player who got his titles through the quality of play rather than the quantity of play. And i apologise if your concept of farming in PvE does not allow you to understand this.

If player A got rank 9 gladiator by grinding 5wins in RA and played everyday for 24 hours a day i think its pretty obvious how good he/she is at PvP.

If player B got rank 9 gladiator in TA with a organised group of friends running well designed builds i think its pretty obvious who i think is the better player.

You really have to forget the idea that titles hold any real value just because you gained the title. That is typical of a PvE attitude.

In a true PvP competitive sense, it matters much more to the top players how you achieved your rank. Did you play a gimmick build for the majority of your HA rank? Did you Searing flames your Champ 3 title? Did you farm noobs in RA for your glad titles...

Im perfectly fine with the possibility that titles can be grinded by even mediocre players. I dont need to waste my time playing with those people.

I know who the good players are and whether they have titles or not, i will much prefer to play with them.

Dont come here with your PvE farming examples from other games like you know anything about GW PvP.

And please, if you cant understand anything im trying to teach you, just remember this. Titles really mean nothing to PvPers who know what they are doing.

Vinnyman · Sep 28, 2007, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Very narrow-minded update. Something that a few people complained about, now after the update, yields something that most everyone is complaining about.

Wow, this is another good point that I failed to mention. This has created more problems than solve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Reduced the credibility of the Gladiator title and promoted farming builds - the two things that experienced players told you not to do. Goodness.

Yah, I knew this would happen. I can go down the list and point out updates that were absolute quick fixes to cater to those who do not have the intellect or the fortitude to find a way around it. Typical gamer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Dishonorable is a joke and it's bugged. We shouldn't have to wait for a few people to chase eachother around the map before we can leave and start up again. It needs to be brought back so that it triggers only in the first minute, or summink. Just the thought of waiting for ten minutes while 2 wammos tank eachother makes me not want to play RA at all.

Just reinforced my point about having to sit around and wait for the timer. It's waste of time period.

glountz · Sep 28, 2007, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

RA is actually less efficient now anyway, if you're working on a glad title track. 3 pts. per 10 wins, but they've multiplied the ranks by 4. But hey, the players too crappy to get 10 wins can now scrap 5 winners together to get their glad 1, so all this was worthwhile I guess

I think that was the intent. Force people thinking themselves as Uber pro RA PvPers to go in TA test their skill.

Servant of Kali · Sep 28, 2007, 04:04 PM // 16:04

What the... ?!?! I already have Dishonorable and am blocked from PvP for a long time judging by how slow it expires!

Only thing I remember doing was leaving the battle after 5 min because my team couldn't do crap.

Maybe I left once earlier when battle was kinda over but before timer. Not sure about this, am just trying to figure out why I got this penalty.

In other words, this is utter BS, so what, im stuck now for 8 minutes if i want to play?! Just a sidenote: I did not leave a single battle because there was no monk etc, I did not leave a single battle in the beginning, and I did not absolutely do nothing to grieve anyone. I left one battle before final 2min expired because there REALLY wasn't any point in staying.

This is utter BS!

Lorekeeper · Sep 28, 2007, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinnyman

Oh really? so you approve of me sitting in a match for 10 min not being rezzed, while I could simply leave and jump into another match? I don't see your logic in this statement. I never implied or demanded for others to rez me or ask for a "miracle." Time is money, and that's something that I DON'T take with a grain of salt. Ever heard of being more productive with your time? Obviously not.

You go to RA to be productive? That is your first glaring mistake. Perhaps if your idea of being productive is to bang your head against a brick wall. Being productive in RA is like wanting to roll 3 sixes on 3 six sided dice at will. Its all about luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinnyman

Actually I did read the entire thread. Did you read what you wrote? This thread, which DOES NOT account for the majority of the RA population that has given nothing but negative feedback about this system. And yes, I surfed through the American AND international district? So now your point is?

On the very first page of the thread, even the first 3-4 replies are positive comments, after that of course you get your regular whiners, you get some people with credible concerns, and you get some people who just outright dont understand whats going on.

Just now i was looking around RA english districts, there were 7. Anets intention was to increase the accessibility of RA and hopefully PvP in general. I think 7 districts shows they were quite successful. Maybe people just wanna jump in and 'farm' the 5 wins. But for whatever reason, theyre playing PvP and maybe just maybe a small proportion of the newer ones will decide to take PvP more seriously. Influx of serious PvPers who arent out to farm titles for the sake of farming a title = good for GW PvP. Any trust me, PvP in GW needs all the help it can get.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinnyman

It is for me if I want to take a break from GvG, or HA. Stop being pessimistic and realize that not everyone in RA is a noob fresh off the boat.

the thing is, noone ever told you that everyone in RA is a noob. All that was said was that RA is RANDOM. Its unpredictable. You could be teamed up with the best players in the game at one moment, but teamed up with the worst in the next. Its all decided with a roll of the dice and if you are looking to be productive in a PvP arena RA is probably one of the last places you should be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinnyman

But seriously, you're missing my point. RA and TA were meant for casual games. That feel is gone.

I think as long as they allowed players to leave after 2minutes your issue with RA would be solved. But its yet to be seen if they will allow players to leave at all.

Thats probably the only part of your concerns that hold any merit. But i support you in that concern and i have already posted my thoughts on the matter.

The system was never believed to be perfect as soon as it was released. Anet are not so arrogant. They have clearly stated that they will be closely monitoring things, and they are well aware of the concerns people have posted in this thread. The system is not perfect, it needs a few tweaks and a few things need elaborating.

But thats how most ideas evolve. They are very rarely perfect when they are created, they take time to perfect. And more often than not they are met with a huge amount of pessimism, pessimism which generally disappears once people finally come to understand how things work.

Alot of the complaints about the update are borne out of misunderstanding. People just dont understand the new system and so they mistakenly cry foul play.

The weekend isnt even started yet anyway, and yet people are posting here their judgement over the system.

Thats says it all really.

Lorekeeper · Sep 28, 2007, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

This is utter BS!

sheesh, youd think someone kidnapped and shot your whole family.

Chill out. This is one of the biggest concerns about the new system, it has been brought up several times already.

But cant you find a more constructive way of voicing your concern? You didnt even bother to evaluate the system, you just came here to vent your anger at not being able to play for 10minutes.

Get a grip, join in a mature discussion, and see the results.

QQ, cry, whine, rant... and get ignored by Anet.

Servant of Kali · Sep 28, 2007, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

But cant you find a more constructive way of voicing your concern? You didnt even bother to evaluate the system, you just came here to vent your anger at not being able to play for 10minutes.

1) I posted more constructive things about this games PvP than 90% of this forum
2) I *did* take my time to evaluate the system, notice how my first msg in this thread was kinda positive??
3) I am getting ignored by ANet anyway since they never do any of my suggestions but always do their own which fail. So yeah I'll QQ cry whine and rant. Deal with it.

yum · Sep 28, 2007, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

''dude'' you do realise this is a PvP discussion? Please try not to post stuff about how you farm in PvE, you will just get laughed at.

You need to read the new glad point system through better, they did not ONLY reduce the requirement for winning glad points to only 5 wins, they increased the number of gladiator points needed to get a certain rank.

yes, a medicore player with all the time in the world will be able to grind 5 wins at a time but do you realise how long it will take to get the higher ranks in the glad system?

The fact that people can grind titles is something i can accept. Its happened in PvE, its happened to the Hero title. In little ways it happened to the Champ title at various points of its life.

If someone has got the time to spend playing the game 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Who am i to stop them from getting glad points? Sure go ahead!

But what you dont seem to understand in your very very narrow view of things is that at the end of the day there is a big difference between a mediocre player who had to grind his titles through sheer hours of play and a good player who got his titles through the quality of play rather than the quantity of play. And i apologise if your concept of farming in PvE does not allow you to understand this.

If player A got rank 9 gladiator by grinding 5wins in RA and played everyday for 24 hours a day i think its pretty obvious how good he/she is at PvP.

If player B got rank 9 gladiator in TA with a organised group of friends running well designed builds i think its pretty obvious who i think is the better player.

You really have to forget the idea that titles hold any real value just because you gained the title. That is typical of a PvE attitude.

In a true PvP competitive sense, it matters much more to the top players how you achieved your rank. Did you play a gimmick build for the majority of your HA rank? Did you Searing flames your Champ 3 title? Did you farm noobs in RA for your glad titles...

Im perfectly fine with the possibility that titles can be grinded by even mediocre players. I dont need to waste my time playing with those people.

I know who the good players are and whether they have titles or not, i will much prefer to play with them.

Dont come here with your PvE farming examples from other games like you know anything about GW PvP.

And please, if you cant understand anything im trying to teach you, just remember this. Titles really mean nothing to PvPers who know what they are doing.

Doh, don't you realize that while grinding his 5 wins, a farmer can occasionally gets 10 or even 20 in a row

5 wins in a row is much much easier than 10 in a row => it is farmable now. Oh, and I love losing at 9 btw

. Losing at 4? bleh

Beside, farming is farming, no matter it is pve or pvp. And my example is about FARMING, not PVP. I just want to show you what a farmer can do. Next time, if you want to bash someone, read carefully, and dont just read, please think too.

I do realize that they increase the requirement for glad title. But so what? What they did was just make it farmable. As long as they make it farmable, no matter how high the requirement is, the farmers can achieve it. And my example shows that point, and you bash it. Funny.

No, I don't play gimmick builds, thank you. The places I see gimmick builds most are in fact HA and TA. If I have to choose between fighting fear me or amo constantly and occasional weird teams in RA, i'll choose the later. And TA also has noobs. In fact, in order to get 10 wins, you must crush at least about 5-7 noob teams.

Quality > quantity, I agree... but how can you tell? A lot people base on the rank. Yet, there are seriously pvp players who dont care about rank, but they are rare, very rare. And I don't have time to seek those jewels in the mass of those evaluating others by rank.

And why do I can about the glad title? Because it gives me an incentive to play, that's it. In fact, if I have a certain goal while playing ( 10 wins or 20 wins), the game will be more enjoyable. Do you prefer having an A while the rest of your class has D, C,B to while everyone in your class also has an A? Beside, if you study in a class where every1 can get an A, that class must be really crappy.

THat is not to mention the crappy anti leavers system. I personally never leave at the beginning of the match. But I do leave after or during the match after watching how my teamates play. Now.... it's BS

RandomEngy · Sep 28, 2007, 04:36 PM // 16:36

I was hoping that someone here was actually curious about what "leaving prematurely" meant (as in, does it trigger when you have one teammate alive with no res sig?) However it appears that it's exactly the cesspit of poorly thought out complaints that I feared.