Curse

Riotgear · Sep 27, 2007, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Good system, has potential for abuse though. Sync 3 people into Aspenwood for example and you can throw 6 DH points on everyone and not suffer recoil. Very well thought-out though.

Quote:

Or what if people on a team just hate another player on the same team and decide to /report him?

Then in any case, you can avoid /reports by not being a moron. This system is not only designed to stop AFKs and leechers, but people like me, who make rangers named Helpful Spirits then go into Aspenwood and do this:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/User:Riotgear

Teh [prefession]-zorz · Sep 27, 2007, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Can someone Q me in why this is an improvement for TA?

Lorekeeper · Sep 27, 2007, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

And thats my point right there.

Someone who isnt that good a player is less likely to get to 5 than a better player, thats fairly obvious.
However if that bad player keeps trying he will eventually land a good team or face a run of bad players.
Now if both players can play the same ammount. The better player will come out on top.
Should the lesser player be able to play for a lot longer than the better player he will have a higher title simply by eventually landing on a good team.

With 10 its less likely for a player to be carried or face bad teams. While it can still happen it is less likely.

well i think you realise that someone who has the time CAN match the productivity of a good player who plays for less time.

but this would be the same for any type of reward system.

like at the workplace. An efficient worker will accomplish a certain amount of tasks before 5pm. But an inefficient worker will have to put in overtime in order to accomplish the same amount of tasks.

at the end of the day, the same amount of tasks were achieved. The same glad rank was achieved. But i hope its pretty obvious that the fact that that same amount of tasks were achieved or the same glad rank was achieved is not enough to provide a full account of the way people did those tasks or gained those ranks.

the inefficient worker, or the bad RA player will always be playing a catchup game with the efficient worker or the good TA player. If the inefficient worker has to work 2 times as much in order to match the productivity of the efficient worker, the efficient worker could easily work 2 times as much aswell, and always stay ahead.

as far as im concerned, if it takes a bad RA player twice as much time to gain the same amount of glad points that i am getting, im fine with that. Unless that RA player gets good enough to join the TA ranks of players i will always know that i am a superior player, regardless of the fact that we might share the same rank.

Its the same with rank in HA. I know for a fact there are people out there running fame farming builds for hours and hours a day. And i know alot of rank 12 players have acquired their rank this way. For these people, because of their poor natural ability to play the game, time=titles. They run gimmicky builds like legoway, poopway, iway, bloodspike, vimway, paraway etc etc nonstop.

but there are people who do not need to spend hours and hours in HA to get fame and who can run a huge variety of builds. In these cases skill=fame.

Its the same with the glad title.

You will have glad ranked players who got their ranks because for them time=glad points.

but you will have glad ranked players who got their ranks because for them skill=glad points.

Its just a matter of being able to identify who belongs to which camp.

in most cases its pretty obvious.

DreamWind · Sep 27, 2007, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Hate it. I'm talking strictly from a RA/TA viewpoint.

The new title track system isn't very good. As we can see, most people have problems with it so I won't discuss that.

Bigger issue is the dishonor point system. This going to lead to a world of problems.

First, griefers are going to come out in record numbers.

Second, what happens when you get a match with 5-6 monks? You are now in a position where you can't leave, and you can't win either.

Third, what about situations where your teammates don't load or quit before you?

Fourth, a lot of people will simply suicide now instead of quit, thus wasting more time.

Fifth, this update did nothing to help TA, which was my biggest gripe with the arenas.

Sixth, I will post it when I think of it but I know there is more.

I know this update came as a response from the vast number of complaints aobut leavers. Whatever. I just don't think this is going to solve the bigger issues.

Oink The Pig · Sep 27, 2007, 11:01 PM // 23:01

So let me get this straight...

If I get on a RA team with a leech, I get to /report, but I get dishonor points if I'm on a team with three leeches (thereby preventing myself from getting the requisite 1/3 of the team to report) or I'm on a team with people who're either ignorant about the report system, too lazy to use it, or griefers themselves. That doesn't sound too great.

Second, it seems like some griefer can just go ahead and report someone they dislike, and it'd only cost them 2 points. And what's to stop anyone from teaming up with another person on the team to report someone just for bringing a suboptimal build or saying something they don't approve of, or whatever other inappropriate reason? What's to stop someone from running 6 bots in Aspenwood, and having the bots all /report the first non-bot in the list? And hey, your team can just leave you dead the whole time because they didn't bring res sigs (or fail to use them), and your only real option is to wait it out.

Third, this whole system makes it so I have to spend time on the team with a leech or a bot just to avoid racking up dishonor points myself. Since you never know if someone's abusing /report to your detriment, you can't risk a premature leave even when you know there's a bot on the team. So instead, I'd have to fight (lest I get mistaken for a leech myself), and earn faction for the bot/leech, instead of being able to leave freely and jump into another match. I've had times where I've been teamed up in a new random team with the same person 4 times in a row, so I can see this happening with a bot.

Lastly, will the option to quit out after a match be made available? There still seems to be an issue from time to time where people leaving between matches causes the team they left to enter the next match with only 3 people on the team.

karunpav · Sep 27, 2007, 11:02 PM // 23:02

I like this new system. I might actually play RA now.

yesitsrob · Sep 27, 2007, 11:16 PM // 23:16

I think it's a good system. Punishing people for getting their points via RA is not a good system so can't agree with your idea on capping RA glad points. Sorry. That's just some wild assumption that TA players are serious business.

Teh [prefession]-zorz · Sep 27, 2007, 11:22 PM // 23:22

how is this better for TA then RA again?

kvndoom · Sep 27, 2007, 11:26 PM // 23:26

It's better for TA because it's easier to reach the 4-point plateau and maintain it with a good TA team. Over time, you'll get points in TA considerably faster than in RA.

Teh [prefession]-zorz · Sep 27, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

yeah i guess and in other words if you get put on a nub team in ra your screwed.

Ultra Mega · Sep 27, 2007, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oink The Pig

So let me get this straight...

If I get on a RA team with a leech, I get to /report, but I get dishonor points if I'm on a team with three leeches (thereby preventing myself from getting the requisite 1/3 of the team to report) or I'm on a team with people who're either ignorant about the report system, too lazy to use it, or griefers themselves. That doesn't sound too great.

Second, it seems like some griefer can just go ahead and report someone they dislike, and it'd only cost them 2 points. And what's to stop anyone from teaming up with another person on the team to report someone just for bringing a suboptimal build or saying something they don't approve of, or whatever other inappropriate reason? What's to stop someone from running 6 bots in Aspenwood, and having the bots all /report the first non-bot in the list? And hey, your team can just leave you dead the whole time because they didn't bring res sigs (or fail to use them), and your only real option is to wait it out.

If you get onto a RA team with 3 leechers just leave, you will get 5 dishonour points but that is not enough to stop you being able to play. I didn't think leechers were a problem in RA anyway, at least not enough to get 3 on your team.

Why would 6 bots join a aspenwood team to just report the legit players? They are there to farm faction points, reporting others for leeching is pointless for them.

Overall it seems like a good system, once it is in action then would be the time to find problems with it.
Alot of the hypothetical problems people are coming up with would rarely happen. Its not like 1 occurance of you getting dishonour points stops you playing, it is regular offending that stops you entering pvp battles.

If you have to you can leave an RA match but you just can't do it twice in a 60 minute time period.

Byzantine · Sep 28, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Im going to try to be as constructive as possible

Im sorry but this new dishonour feature is terrible from an RA players

standpoint.Before it was okay because if you got a crappy team you could

leave. Now the only people you're satisfying are the noobs who say "omg why

did you leave we could have won with a mending wammo and no monk". I

dont know about any of you but I have a lot more fun winning than staying in

some crappy group and lose.The new system for glad points is fine I guess

because it was all ways annoying to lose on your 9th round but its just

lowering the standards, its just not going to be as prestigious(ya I know not

very prestigious

to begin with).In the end the only customers you have satisfied are the noobs

who think its fun to die for hours on end with teams that have no hope of

winning because its "honourable" to play even without a monk while teams with

one wipe the floor with you again and again.

Isileth · Sep 28, 2007, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Byzantine

Its called Random Arenas for a reason. Its random.
If you dont want to ever end up on a team with bad players....dont play RA.
Go to TA if you want to ensure your team will be of a set standard.

Lord Natural · Sep 28, 2007, 12:35 AM // 00:35

The leaver penalty isn't well thought out. What if I get a second monk on my team (or even a 3rd)? Am I supposed to stand there healing like some retarded griefer, or map out and be all hexed up? I guess I can just stand there and not participate in griefing, but then my own team will just report me anyway, so it's lose-lose. Not to mention runners extending matches, and so on. Supposed to wait the whole 8 mins?

I don't really have a problem with the glad title changes. If anything it really promotes TA, which should hopefully bring some competition there. But this anti-leaver junk will probably make me quit RA for good.

Edit: Faced a 3 monk team minutes after posting this. No damage to kill them, didn't take enough damage to die. Wait 8 mins in-match, or 10 mins out. Nice.

kvndoom · Sep 28, 2007, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

Edit: Faced a 3 monk team minutes after posting this. No damage to kill them, didn't take enough damage to die. Wait 8 mins in-match, or 10 mins out. Nice.

I agree that 8 minutes is too long, I think 6 is optimal, maybe even 5. Since the average match lasts < 3 minutes, doubling that would allow for two evenly match teams to find an opening and break the game open. I had one griefer tonight already, and just waiting around for the timer actually seemed more frustrating than trying to chase the bastard down would have been in the old days.

African War Lord · Sep 28, 2007, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Not sure I'm liking this now. Just as I feared, when a match that is going absolutely nowhere, it can't be escaped. I found myself doing something I've never done before and that is stop healing. so I waited it out as the other monk on my team healed away like a champ.. thinking.. hmm this sucks lol.

Then we get a shadow form sin and I'm supposed to watch him dance? I just said screw it and left. now here I am lol. out of the game.

*thinks about the simpson's episode where itchy and scratchy was canceled and all the kids went out for fresh air*

Riotgear · Sep 28, 2007, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Dishonor points for leaving early shouldn't apply if the game's lasted longer than, say, 5 minutes.

African War Lord · Sep 28, 2007, 02:07 AM // 02:07

make that 2 minutes and you might be on to something.

Lord Natural · Sep 28, 2007, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by African War Lord

make that 2 minutes and you might be on to something.

Agreed. Or impliment a monk filter or something. Forcing players to play full 8 mins stalemate games constantly is no good. Do the players who keep preaching: "it's ra, take what you get", honestly enjoy 3 monk vs 2 monk battles that can't end before the time limit and you can't leave? God forbid you get the priest map in this scenario. I just had a ten gamer in RA, and we faced four 2 monk teams on the way. Because of our build we got past them, but if there are this many defensive teams rolling around, there must be a ton of tedious matches going on.

Nadia Roark · Sep 28, 2007, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by red orc

The BAD thing is that you distroyed the old title.
Gladiator title will mean nothing now for professional pvpers...

I, um... hate to burst your bubble, but...

...it never did.