Curse

Akaraxle · Nov 05, 2007, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

The Rending Touch boat has sailed; Shield of Deflection got hammered and SoR guys are the exception rather than the norm now. Rending Touch was awesome when you could wreck one or both elites with regularity, now it's a niche skill you can threaten if either of those elites start to make a comeback.

Point. When and if good prot makes its way back into the meta, I guess it could be pushed back to 10-12r.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 05, 2007, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Hitting Rend Touch (and HEV) would make the SoR water template far more appealing for obvious reasons and remove the three monk backline from it's dominance; whether people want that template back is a different story, but it seems 3 monk backlines is the new 'blockway'.

Div · Nov 05, 2007, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

Hitting Rend Touch (and HEV) would make the SoR water template far more appealing for obvious reasons and remove the three monk backline from it's dominance; whether people want that template back is a different story, but it seems 3 monk backlines is the new 'blockway'.

If izzy really wanted SoR to come back, he could always just change the recharge back to 5, and/or make blurred better again, but seeing as not as many use rend touch now compared to before, who knows. Maybe we'll see an SoR comeback after all?

The biggest problem lies in the extreme power of the third monk as a skirmish healer and defender. While being not as versatile as eles or as offensive as rits, monks make up by being a very strong defender. It's much more capable of defending splits, and with the super run skills, running isn't an issue with monk runners. For starters, make signet of mystic speed a one second cast with shorter duration, and it'll hurt a mo/d runner a lot. Changing dash from a straight 50% to a 25..50% scale or from 3 seconds to 1..3 second scale would also be very interesting, though that won't happen.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 05, 2007, 09:18 AM // 09:18

blurred is the best it's ever been, to be honest. I do agree that signet of mystic speed is retarded though.

I think SOR is fine in it's current state; a shorter recharge would obviously make it better but it probably isn't needed. You can usually keep the base up solo vs a two man split, and if dealing with 3+ you should probably be yelling at someone else to come back anyway.

Vaga · Nov 05, 2007, 09:39 AM // 09:39

SoR is fine atm, hev just owns water eles way too hard and it needs to be reworked.

DIH49 · Nov 05, 2007, 12:25 PM // 12:25

HEV owns the face off of Freezing Gust/Frozen Burst eles. I can't say that this particularly bothers me. I don't see why team A punching team B in the face is a worse situation than team B supersnaring all of team A whenever they want.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Nov 05, 2007, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIH49

HEV owns the face off of Freezing Gust/Frozen Burst eles. I can't say that this particularly bothers me. I don't see why team A punching team B in the face is a worse situation than team B supersnaring all of team A whenever they want.

Frozen Burst is the only 'problem snare' in water magic though, everything else either lasts quite short or has an insane recharge or in the case of deep freeze an insane energy cost and cast time.

Solution: Rework HEV and reduce the duration of Frozen Burst.

Byron · Nov 05, 2007, 04:00 PM // 16:00

I'd like to echo Vanquisher and say that all these flagrunner problems are a result of the much abbreviated play time, and the absolute necessity for NPC management because of 18 minute VoD.

Yeah, HEV is a huge deterrent for water hexes. I don't see how it could be re-worked without killing the skill, though. Or, conversely, re-working it might throw the balance in favor of water snares. Remember when teams would bring 2 copies of icy shackles? I dont' wanna see that meta come back.

HEV is still a gamble imo. Plenty of matches go by without it being at all useful. There are a lot of good dom elites, so any nerf would probably killthe skill outright.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 05, 2007, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

HEV is still a gamble imo. Plenty of matches go by without it being at all useful. There are a lot of good dom elites, so any nerf would probably killthe skill outright.

A lot of good dom elites? As in... HEV and surge? Power block is okay I guess but doesn't really see play.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 05, 2007, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIH49

HEV owns the face off of Freezing Gust/Frozen Burst eles. I can't say that this particularly bothers me. I don't see why team A punching team B in the face is a worse situation than team B supersnaring all of team A whenever they want.

frozen burst is probably the easiest spell in the game to punish, because the ele runs right up to you and gets to stand there for a long time after using it thanks to aftercast. The entire line is robust and rewards player skill (the only real problem snares are ice prison/tenai's prison, which hardly anyone runs anyway).

The problem is that HEV does a stupid amount of damage, and while it's somewhat negligible in a full hex build, throwing around a few random water skills is undoable thanks to one skill.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Nov 05, 2007, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Yeah, HEV is a huge deterrent for water hexes. I don't see how it could be re-worked without killing the skill, though. Or, conversely, re-working it might throw the balance in favor of water snares. Remember when teams would bring 2 copies of icy shackles? I dont' wanna see that meta come back.

This isnt that hard to counter by interrupting/preveiling etc.

Quote:

HEV is still a gamble imo. Plenty of matches go by without it being at all useful. There are a lot of good dom elites, so any nerf would probably killthe skill outright.

HEV isn't so much a gamble as there aren't really any better elites you could run on a dom mesmer, with surge being the only real alternative (oh and RC according to twicky_kid) Surge has the advantage that it's always useful, HEV will probably be almost useless in over 50% of the matches you play, but it will rape face in the other 50%.

Lorekeeper · Nov 05, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

is the strength in HEV its ability to make stand water eles useless by removing a single hex every 12 seconds or is it the fact that running a water ele vs a team with HEV gives them a AOE Shatter enchant centered around their frontliners (and most probably destroying preprots on your backline) every 12 seconds? Or both?

the only thing i think should be changed is the dmg and the enchant removal, but how much so and in what way?

TheOneMephisto · Nov 05, 2007, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

is the strength in HEV its ability to make stand water eles useless by removing a single hex every 12 seconds or is it the fact that running a water ele vs a team with HEV gives them a AOE Shatter enchant centered around their frontliners (and most probably destroying preprots on your backline) every 12 seconds? Or both?

the only thing i think should be changed is the dmg and the enchant removal, but how much so and in what way?

IMO the best way to change it would make it scale in power with more hexes, something like:

Remove 1 hex from target ally. Nearby enemies take X...50 damage from each remaining hex on target ally (max 120) and lose one enchantment (if there is at least 1 remaining hex) <-- not sure if this is necessary.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Nov 05, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

is the strength in HEV its ability to make stand water eles useless by removing a single hex every 12 seconds or is it the fact that running a water ele vs a team with HEV gives them a AOE Shatter enchant centered around their frontliners (and most probably destroying preprots on your backline) every 12 seconds? Or both?

The damage and enchant removal obviously.. there's much better options for hex removal.

wuzzman · Nov 05, 2007, 06:30 PM // 18:30

HEV getting rid of SOR runners? good riddance. Tired of the days when you can sit one at the back of your base and not have to worry about a gank again.

Tab · Nov 05, 2007, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

HEV getting rid of SOR runners? good riddance. Tired of the days when you can sit one at the back of your base and not have to worry about a gank again.

Apart from the fact we now have ZB monks instead of them.

Burton2000 · Nov 05, 2007, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

HEV getting rid of SOR runners? good riddance. Tired of the days when you can sit one at the back of your base and not have to worry about a gank again.

But how is that any different to a monk runner?

wuzzman · Nov 05, 2007, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Monks don't carry snares. I way prefer a ZB monk trying to stop me from killing the next archer then a SoR ele who spams freezing gust and SoR till his warrior friend comes.

Tab · Nov 05, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

See Signet of Pious Restraint.

wuzzman · Nov 05, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Gwen skills= annoying. The only reason monks are being hated this much is because of their stand power which is far less tame then a SoR ele at the stand. What happened to the days of running a offensive flag runner?