Curse

wuzzman · Oct 24, 2007, 10:00 PM // 22:00

blight has always been trash against real pressure(teams running dual extinguish!! COME ON!!)....nightfall power creep ain't to blame there...monks bars don't have the luxury of carrying elite energy mangement skills..which basically why RC is the only alternative past lod. Anyway the last thing this crowd of pvp'ers need is more options because "they are always imba and should be nerfed...which they usually do".

Shuuda · Oct 25, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Well, I've seen ZB being used in a few GvGs I've watched today, although I've never really seen ZB as a high end PvP elite for monks, it's possible I guess.

moko · Oct 25, 2007, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Well, I've seen ZB being used in a few GvGs I've watched today, although I've never really seen ZB as a high end PvP elite for monks, it's possible I guess.

one word: runners.

Signet Of Hell · Oct 25, 2007, 06:17 PM // 18:17

SoD hasn't become useless or insufficient at all. You're saying the cast time is the only plus side and its barely a plus side, but the cast time owns like crazy, and therefore it beats guardian by a long shot. PnH is a waste of a elite skill slot and if you are that desperate for energy, you should be rethinking how you are playing.

You can switch between RC and SoD and it doesn't make that much of a difference in todays meta, its just whether you are more worried about removing conditions quickly or not being able to kite/being spiked. With the amount of melee in high end GvG these days, I would go for SoD most of the time.

Thomas.knbk · Oct 25, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

If people really turn to dual LoD's (I've only seen it once I think), I expect the meta to be really spikey and gay.

icedwhitemocha · Oct 25, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

I can easily see dual LoD being a possible evolution.

vD's also playing around with ZB at the stand, tho I watched his energy get screwed several times due to LoD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

If people really turn to dual LoD's (I've only seen it once I think), I expect the meta to be really spikey and gay.

When has the meta ever not been gay? honestly? dual lod's would definitely change the damage meta though.

dies like fish · Oct 25, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

If people really turn to dual LoD's (I've only seen it once I think), I expect the meta to be really spikey and gay.

I've tried dual LoD's and it's crap. You lose either condition removal or the ability to shut down melee by choosing it over RC or SoD.

Wasteland Squidget · Oct 25, 2007, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Dual LoD is attractive right now, mostly because every monk elite has been made crappy. SoD and RC are not going to win you any games, and the second copy of LoD removes the single point of failure that every team exploits.

As it turns out, when you make only one good elite for an entire profession, people will run multiple copies of that elite rather than take something shitty. Who knew?

Sk8tborderx · Oct 25, 2007, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by dies like fish

I've tried dual LoD's and it's crap. You lose either condition removal or the ability to shut down melee by choosing it over RC or SoD.

Draw on a midline character solves the first problem, you can solve the other problem by getting a decent monk who can pre prot with guardian.

twicky_kid · Oct 26, 2007, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Healing light needs a big buff.

5e 3/4 cast 4 recharge
40-120 heal (14 attri) 1...3 energy gain

Give me a reason to use this over GoH. If I'm going to be using a healing attribute elite it better blow GoH away otherwise what's the point? Glimmer of Light has the same problem why should I run it over GoH.

Blight needs a buff 5e energy cost. It cannot stand up to pressure because of the 10e price tag not because of the heal or removal. The ability to target yourself is not enough reason for me to warrant the energy cost. If I was being spiked or conditions overloaded you'd either be using PS or SB and kiting.

Healer's Boon needs the "next xx spells" clause removed. Its an elite boon for a bad attribute and recast does not reset the counter.

Boon Sig just needs minor adjustments and I think it has the potential to be very good in the current meta.

2 LoD is a little clumsy. Its hard to tell when to use it because the <80% clause. You can end up casting at the same time while 1 having no affect at all. I agree there need to be more options for monks though through the game's history there have never been that many choices for monks.

A Lustful Thrust · Oct 26, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32

instead of slapping healing prayers with a nerf bat, and monk skills in general, buff them instead. i can count the number of VIABLE [not good] monk elites on one hand [all but one are in the prot line] and the number of VIABLE [not good] healing prayer elites on one finger.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Oct 26, 2007, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Lustful Thrust

instead of slapping healing prayers with a nerf bat, and monk skills in general, buff them instead. i can count the number of VIABLE [not good] monk elites on one hand [all but one are in the prot line] and the number of VIABLE [not good] healing prayer elites on one finger.

You're an idiot, no one wants to nerf healing prayers.

Shuuda · Oct 26, 2007, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Agreed, I would have though most people wanted healing prayers to be buffed, since there are only 3 skills in it worth using.

LoD (Cheap and effective party wide heal)
Infuse (massive heal to catch spikes)
Gift of Health (only used in protection builds because of the draw back and low investment needed)

Beyond these skills, healing prayers are pretty sub bar.

moriz · Oct 26, 2007, 05:57 PM // 17:57

don't forget words of comfort, dwayna's kiss, and sig of rejuvenation. however, those three are only marginally useful and really comes down to metagame requirements and personal preference.

i've also been toying with the idea of the old LoD runner. it will allow for a standard RC + LoD backline while keeping another LoD as a backup. however, i don't think it will be particularly effective at base defense.

twicky_kid · Oct 27, 2007, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

don't forget words of comfort, dwayna's kiss, and sig of rejuvenation. however, those three are only marginally useful and really comes down to metagame requirements and personal preference.

Nothing to do with personal preference. LoD + GoH = bad.

You use them because there isn't another option and they are the best choices.

Mithie · Oct 27, 2007, 06:20 AM // 06:20

I Really don't see a downside to running dual LoDs right now with SoD's new recharge.

Conditions? You'd deal with them exactly the way you dealt with them when you ran SoD and LoD.

Vulnerable to spike? Sure, but no more so than running RC + LoD.

I guess people will tend to run spikes more because it takes a rediculously unpractical amount of pressure to power through two LoDs, but eh, people will find some way to break through it.

Melody Cross · Oct 27, 2007, 07:11 AM // 07:11

*sigh*

Don't flame me too hard over this. I'm just spitballing here, but...

If the only true good elite for a monk to bring in this meta is LoD then...why are you running a 2 monk backline? Would...would the prot from the 2nd monk be missed if it were dispersed into the midline a little more, and another midline character added in? Something with point target healing. A...derv with sig of piety spam. A third Angelic Bond paragon. A second rit.

Monk prots in their current form are one small thread in a massive defense web. would teams--possibly--be better served if the web shifted away from enchantments and more toward extra non-removable prots?

Its prolly too stupid to even consider seriously but...from what I've seen in obs, I'm starting to wonder.

I'm just...I'm starting to wonder...

GGs

EDIT: I did see rawr play dR with a dual LoD(3-monk backline)/dual Angelic Bond defense team. it was pretty solid.

Greedy Gus · Oct 27, 2007, 07:13 AM // 07:13

I'd say the downside is that one is doing absolutely nothing when the other isn't shutdown, and you're running 2 healers (instead of stronger prot & gift bars).

6am3 Fana71c · Oct 27, 2007, 03:34 PM // 15:34

I think dual LoD isn't so bad idea at all. Oh yeah, and...what about Signet of Removal? Free condition and hex removal every 5 seconds, and it's goes trough Shame / Backfire... Dunno, just thinking.

Mithie · Oct 27, 2007, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

I'd say the downside is that one is doing absolutely nothing when the other isn't shutdown, and you're running 2 healers (instead of stronger prot & gift bars).

No. Both are protting actively at all times.

When you're playing an LoD monk do you do nothing but spam LoD?