Curse

TheOneMephisto · Nov 29, 2007, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Robo

I'm sorry, these are all extremely bad suggestions. I don't think Shadow Stepping is inherently broken as long as the benchmark skill is Aura of Displacement. The only real problem Shadow Step skills are Recall, Augury of Death (and even then, its the Deep Wound part of the skill which is imbalanced), and Shadow Prison, but there's nothing wrong or imbalanced about Death's Charge, Return, or Shadow Walk. Changing every skill to a running skill is not at all creative, and creates MASSIVE skill redundancy.

As long as the best Shadow Steps in the game are Aura of Displacement, Shadow Walk, and Death's Charge there is no problem with the Shadow Step mechanic.

AoD can get stripped easily, Shadow Walk has obvious limitations, and Death's Charge is not a round trip ticket. They're all balanced skills in these respects,

I consider AoD somewhat too strong of a shadow step, and I would probably like it if they nerfed it a little.

Otherwise, I agree that the benchmark shadow step should be shadow walk. A non-elite shadow step that has a decent recharge, obvious limitations, and takes 2 skillslots (albeit the other capable of having various uses) in return for a large mobility advantage and the ability to instantly escape out of any danger. Useful enough to contend for a spot on the bar but having enough limitations that it's almost impossible to exploit or become overpowered.

ensoriki · Nov 29, 2007, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

I consider AoD somewhat too strong of a shadow step, and I would probably like it if they nerfed it a little.

Otherwise, I agree that the benchmark shadow step should be shadow walk. A non-elite shadow step that has a decent recharge, obvious limitations, and takes 2 skillslots (albeit the other capable of having various uses) in return for a large mobility advantage and the ability to instantly escape out of any danger. Useful enough to contend for a spot on the bar but having enough limitations that it's almost impossible to exploit or become overpowered.

Benchmarks.
Shadow walk should've been 25 recharge >.> dam extra 5 seconds piss me the hell off.

AoD again >.> 10 energy, up keep, 20 second recharge, strippable, Spell isn't enough =P
Be worse if it Was a stance >.> hard to strip, things that interrupt or stop spells don't work on it etc.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 29, 2007, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

30 second recharge is to steep for me >.>
25 is my cut off for any and all shadow steps =P and

Aod Takes the energy of shadow walk + cancel stance (10 energy).
1 energy up keep thus zealous daggers puts you to +2 energy pip >.> I hate having warrior energy pips >.>
Much easier removed than Shadow walk. Stances are harder to remove than enchants.
the return can be a blessing or a curse.
Unlike shadow walk when after 30 seconds your done back to your spot.

In AoD, as long as its on your still in that aura. If you had aod for 1 minute and then end it >.> you can find yourself warped back in a war zone =P

Anyways wtf more can they do to aod?

10 energy upkeep, 20 second recharge.
caster range.

Only things you can do to it is
3/4 cast time or 1 sec cast time.
or half range.

The last 2 make pandas cry.

AoD allows the greatest mobility advantage in the game, on the level of recall with different advantages and disadvantages. With good weapon swapping energy should be a problem very little of the time, and anyone good won't get caught in enemies wiht the return (or will just reset the anchor).

And the 30 sec recharge is the entire point. Shadow steps shouldn't be something that you get to use every single time you need to combo (cough SP, cough AoD to a less extent) and shadow steps shouldn't be constantly available; shadow steps should be things that you get to use once in a while when the opportunity arises to really take advantage of them and make something happen, and the rest of the time they should sit on your bar.

Assassins should not be based off of their shadow steps, their shadow steps should be a little extra thing that they can bring in order to gain some advantage once in a while. You should be able to build as assassin template without a shadow step to be just as good as one with one, so the shadow step becomes an actual debate over more utility vs the occasional shadow step that can make or break plays.

wuzzman · Nov 29, 2007, 04:31 AM // 04:31

removing reasons to bring an assassin(taking out spiking ability, removing shadow step) then taking what other classes can do while sitting in long range, and giving it to the assassin, who would have to do it in close range, will not make assassins a valuable class. Would make a nice secondary though.

Bankai · Nov 29, 2007, 06:59 AM // 06:59

AoD is very imba on dead isle, as you can use AoD in the enemy base, run out, and then immediately teleport right into their base while all their players are on the other side of the map.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 29, 2007, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

removing reasons to bring an assassin(taking out spiking ability, removing shadow step) then taking what other classes can do while sitting in long range, and giving it to the assassin, who would have to do it in close range, will not make assassins a valuable class. Would make a nice secondary though.

sounds good to me.

ensoriki · Nov 30, 2007, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Paradox nerfed praise the lord.
To bad the nerf sucks

Made In Ascalon · Nov 30, 2007, 03:21 AM // 03:21

I want to see Deadly Arts become more important for Assassins that want utility. I'd like to see Shadow Arts become more useful all-around, not just for a few select skills. Assassins should be physical attackers with unique abilities that make them valiable to a team, especially a hex-based one. Siphon Strength and Speed are good examples.

I want Deadly Paradox to be revamped. Having to spam abilities that would otherwise be average or below to make them good is just plain dumb. Getting rid of that effect and removing the attack skill disabling might be good, but I'm not sure if the faster casting speed alone is worth keeping it on a skill bar.

I want to see 123456 assassins destroyed. It offers absolutely no utility or survivability, it's boring, but in certain circumstances it's completely broken. Pressure should be as viable an option for damage as spiking, but I'm sick of seeing "Spike, wait 20 seconds, spike-kill, wait 20 seconds" skill bars.

Riotgear · Nov 30, 2007, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Paradox nerfed praise the lord.
To bad the nerf sucks

What?

89012

Kaida the Heartless · Nov 30, 2007, 06:28 AM // 06:28

The nerf does suck. I was running around with a DP sin earlier and you can still get 2 combos off before the stance wears out and you run out of energy.

Still murders monks, esp. if your not the only one attacking them.

Also, 5 more seconds on Shadow Prison? lol?

Riotgear · Nov 30, 2007, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Hurts it pretty badly in HA. TA.... not really. But Izzy doesn't care about TA.

Nathan of Elona · Nov 30, 2007, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

wars are for smashing your face in ready or not.

Haha.

But yeah, Assassins arn't really... 'front line' material. They're more of the 'sneek around the back and put a knife through your kneck and stab your feet' kind of profs. I meen, sins are really good. They can kill anything quickly, but they're not so good with taking damage. So Frontline is a no-no with them

Tamuril elansar · Nov 30, 2007, 08:23 PM // 20:23

have it that assasins cant equip more than one lead/offhand/dual attack, it would mostly ruin the class so we will never see them again...

GD Defender · Nov 30, 2007, 08:35 PM // 20:35

That actually might be a good idea. ODOD is what's been breaking them, within the spike mechanic at least. Limiting assassins to one dual attack, or even one of all three, would reduce their damaging utility but they'd have 4 slots to play with on other offensive utility skills. Since Izzy wouldn't have to worry about combo abuse, he could safely buff deadly arts skills to a playable level.

.. that last part providing that he kills deadly paradox for good.

EDIT: Eh, the more I think about it the less I like it actually. Without utility in the combo, LOD is almost not worth using. However, it depends significantly on how Izzy would implement it. With the combo abuse out of the way, he can actually modify ALL of the assassin attack skills to playable levels. Reduce the recharge on some for spammable combos, and increase the recharge on some for high-power spikes comparable to ODOD.

wuzzman · Nov 30, 2007, 09:41 PM // 21:41

No one wants deadly arts to be playable

tnyp · Nov 30, 2007, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Getting rid of all lead attack skips (without elite) would get rid of all those long combos. You would have to use 6 attacks to get 2 duals, and if you do, the enemy will have more time to react and you have only 2 skills left.
==> no more instantgibs.

I think its not much to ask and it would be a realy good start into changing the assassins role.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 30, 2007, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Only one of each type of attack (lead, offhand, and dual) would be a decent idea. It would leave lead skips viable in case you really want a 2-skill combo to stack your bar with utility, but would also prevent the ODOD abuse that has broken sins.

Of course, it would also entirely destroy leads like dstab, that are generally used to complement other leads, and would really hurt moebius builds. Maybe just limit it to 1 dual or make it so that elites don't count towards the limit.

ensoriki · Dec 01, 2007, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

No one wants deadly arts to be playable

Deadly arts has never been truly playable.

Its not a full line.

You do not make a full build out of DA, it is only DP that allows that.

People want to see sin with utility, because without it, the only thing it can do is insta-gib.

Instead of this rather silly 1 lead-off-hand and dual on a bar thing.

Why don't we take IAS's out of the sin's hands.
If a sin wants an IAS in PvP he can take frenzy,perhaps flurry.

Why don't we I dunno...Buff leads, they aren't used anyways.

wuzzman · Dec 01, 2007, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Correction people want to see Sins removed from the game. If you buff deadly arts, 2 weeks later we hear a collective cry from the community talking about "how degenerative deadly arts is to pvp". Of course players will post comments on how to make deadly arts "skillful" but then again the result will be all the same. Hell many of the 'problems' that the balance of this game has been blamed on Anet buffing "useless crap" and making them...useful. The only way for deadly arts and shadow arts to be played, is for sins to be obliterated till there is no reason to run a assassin primary, and becomes more useful as a secondary. You may protect the line, but not the class, simple because all post prophecies professions will eventually be shafted one way or another.

YouMakeMeWannaLala · Dec 02, 2007, 03:07 AM // 03:07

ohai

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:Ohaider