Curse

Risus · Nov 25, 2007, 09:25 PM // 21:25

My god...deal with it.
Aurgury of Death is a GOOD skill and is fine the way it is.
Signet of Toxic Shock is a Good skill with a nice long 15 second recharge time (15 seconds is a LOOONG time in PvP), and please, compare the damage to Liquid Flame, which hits AoE for more damage, and is a 15 second already.

viciouspope · Nov 25, 2007, 10:37 PM // 22:37

man they are cool, and its no hardy to kill em... kill their enrgy A/Me si the best tho

ensoriki · Nov 26, 2007, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Toxic shock is fine, if anything 20 second recharge tops.

Augury should be touch range.

Div · Nov 26, 2007, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risus

My god...deal with it.

My god...deal with it. You're an idiot. If you don't know what you're talking about, quit posting.

The recharge on the signet is ~11 seconds with deadly paradox. So you're saying having an instagib combo every 11 seconds isn't overpowered?

pah01 · Nov 26, 2007, 03:51 AM // 03:51

instagib combos should not be allowed especially those that are not difficult to use at all.

Edit: The only near instagib combo that I think is the only one that should be allowed is of course, bulls strike, then frenzy, eviscerate executioners, then a quarterknock shock which is perfectly timed so that it would interrupt 1/4 sec cast skills followed by autoattacking and then perfectly timing your disrupting chop for the next cast of any spell perfectly, this at least requires skill to pull off. The disrupting chop applying the kill of course.

Joe

Turbobusa · Nov 26, 2007, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Kill dancing daggers. remove the lead attack part, touch range, require daggers, anything, but kill it. its unprottable.

moko · Nov 26, 2007, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

Kill dancing daggers. remove the lead attack part, touch range, require daggers, anything, but kill it. its unprottable.

shielding hands and earth shields. killing DD won't actually do much, i don't see a single problem with the skill to be perfectly honest.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 26, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Dancing daggers is bad. As Mokone said, earth shields destroy it's damage, and shielding hands/SoA also absolutely destroy it.

Riotgear · Nov 26, 2007, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Only thing I'd like to see changed with DD is the awkward fact that it counts as a lead even if all three miss. Not that I really care about what happens to Stone Daggers Lite.

Legendary Shiz · Nov 26, 2007, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Deadly Paradox needs to be taken care of before they can truly know if any of the other skills need to be changed.

DP is such a gimmick skill, all around it's just sick.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 27, 2007, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

Deadly Paradox needs to be taken care of before they can truly know if any of the other skills need to be changed.

DP is such a gimmick skill, all around it's just sick.

QFT. Nerf DP into the ground (as in, never let it ever see play again), then we can start seeing where deadly arts/shadow arts skills actually fall in terms of power and we can begin to balance them accordingly (whether through buffs or nerfs).

Turbobusa · Nov 27, 2007, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Well to me ther is just 2 skills that are overpowered in that chain
DP, its obvious and DD. I may not be the greatest monk ever but dancing daggers does theorically 100+ damage in 3 times, meaning that, as you said, either you bring SH or SoA and its weakened, or you dont, and you'll face a good pressure for the sin spamming it. You shouldn't have to take one of those 2 skills. No skill shoulld force you to bring a special prot/heal/defense spell or die (exagerating but you know).

About earth shields, thanks for pointing that. I usually bring slashing/piercing, will create another one. =). Problem is, the people I play with do not automatically take one.

Almighty Zi · Nov 27, 2007, 02:42 PM // 14:42

I don't regard Dancing Daggers that much of a problem. The two skills that I have issue with is Deadly Paradox (for reasons already pointed out by many) and Augrey of Death. AoD gives any caster the ability to put a deep wound on players with just the one skill and it therefore allows more 1,2,3,4,5 daft solo caster spike bars than there should be. RA is full of them atm and it is no fun.

audioaxes · Nov 27, 2007, 05:51 PM // 17:51

increase recharge, and casting time of Augrey
create a more difficult condition to activate entangling trap
nerf deadly paradox to hell (only works on spells, increase energy cost, remove faster activation benefit, nerf recharge/duration such that you cant keep it up constantly)
make signet of toxic a 2 second cast

Riotgear · Nov 27, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Augury of Death started out as a piece of shit that unpredictably teleported you to a target and made it impossible to spike them without interrupting yourself.

Now it's a trash skill that has no use whatsoever aside from providing a pre-spike DW on degenerate caster spikes, with the inconvenient side-effect of teleporting you.

It's one of the most poorly-designed skills in the game, and it needs to die.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 28, 2007, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

About earth shields, thanks for pointing that. I usually bring slashing/piercing, will create another one. =). Problem is, the people I play with do not automatically take one.

If the people you're playing with already aren't taking earth shields then they're bad. Not only are earth shields good vs. A/Mos, but they're also good when facing Mels dervs.

You should have a shield against every damage type and every element in your inventory at all times. Slashing, piercing, blunt, earth, water, fire, and lightning are all very useful against various teams.

Turbobusa · Nov 28, 2007, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Well i have everytype of shields (used to flag run in gvg) on my pve but since i'm not equiped for the build I play I don't take him lol. The thing is I missed the "earth damage" part.

And most of the people in AB don't bother with that, anyway they play with a pve char so they cant create every shield. Bad maybe... What i meant is that DD forces you to either take the mentionned earth shields, or SoA (i'm not a fan of SH). I'd like to see it toned down, or maybe the projectiles to move slower so you can actually kite.

Augury hurts, but if you remove it fast enough it's not a problem. Same, if the target isnt brought down to 50%hp, no problem. But they do that so easily with DD+ SoTS...
Augury does no damage, so I don't see it as a problem like impale. I guess if everyone wants it toned down, you could lower its duration.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 28, 2007, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

What i meant is that DD forces you to either take the mentionned earth shields, or SoA (i'm not a fan of SH). I'd like to see it toned down, or maybe the projectiles to move slower so you can actually kite.

If you aren't bringing earth shields either way then it's your own fault if you lose to DD. And either way, you can just dodge the daggers, it isn't that hard.

And DD is crap without DP, especially when playing against players who know what they're doing.

makosi · Nov 28, 2007, 11:23 PM // 23:23

I can't believe Izzy thinks this is acceptable play. He deserves to lose his job.

Quote:

If you aren't bringing earth shields either way then it's your own fault if you lose to DD. And either way, you can just dodge the daggers, it isn't that hard.

And DD is crap without DP, especially when playing against players who know what they're doing.

The build is overpowered and we can all counter it. The problem is, the fact that the build exists means that people must spec against or die. That's not good gameplay when your build is dictated.

TheOneMephisto · Nov 29, 2007, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

The build is overpowered and we can all counter it. The problem is, the fact that the build exists means that people must spec against or die. That's not good gameplay when your build is dictated.

Oh, I'm not arguing that the build isn't overpowered, as it quite clearly is. I'm arguing that Dancing Daggers in particular isn't overpowered, it's simply used as the best available path to entangling asp along with being decent under Deadly Paradox.

The problem skills are Deadly Paradox and Augury of Death, with Deadly being a much larger problem and consisting of a skill design that should never have existed in the first place. Izzy should just nerf DP into the ground, just absolutely destroy it so that it will never see play again, and then he can start to look at the other skills and make any other tweaks (first to augury) that are needed (there shouldn't be that many more to make).

And for the last time, you aren't speccing against a build by bringing the proper equipment and skills (dodging) into PvP, you're simply giving yourself thebest chance at victory that you can allow. If you lose to a build because you forgot to bring the right shield into the game, then you deserve to lose. It isn't anything about speccing against a certain build because bringing an earth shield (or any other shield) doesn't hurt you against any other team, it's simply a free and easy way to gain an advantage, why are you not using it at every opportunity?