Curse

moko · Oct 04, 2007, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...Deadly_Paradox

gg fail more.......

Sab · Oct 04, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzy from Wiki

This skill was made to help a lot of skills that would never see light of day, I don't think the builds that come about because of this skill are insanely overpowered it just allows for some odd builds out there, it's mainly powerful with Augury of Death, but in the end the two are sorta balanced with each other. I don't plan on changing this anytime soon. ~Izzy @-'----

Lol.

Nerf Deadly Paradox + buff other skills to compensate = balance.

revaer · Oct 05, 2007, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzy from wiki

This skill was made to help a lot of skills that would never see light of day, I don't think the builds that come about because of this skill are insanely overpowered it just allows for some odd builds out there.

So, basically, Izzy took the easy way out and made Deadly Paradox to avoid having to balance a truckload of bad deadly arts/shadow arts skills?

gg

Riotgear · Oct 05, 2007, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Classic example of Izzy prioritizing "neat" over "balanced". That's also why he's not nerfing Melandru. And people are wondering why PvP seems so shitty lately?

DreamRunner · Oct 07, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Just when I was looking forward to next week's skill balance update.

Can Izzy fail anymore? We will know next week, and anet wonders why people have given up.

makosi · Oct 13, 2007, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Untouched. I guess it's time to roll a Ward of Stability or *gasp* Dolyak Signet monk.

QQ

XiaoTheBlade · Oct 30, 2007, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Make deadly paradox 25 energy, 60 recharge, and causes exhaustion.

And sorry for slight necro on topic.

crucifix · Oct 30, 2007, 03:54 PM // 15:54

This really doesn't need a nerf. This build is pure offense, as is most any other sin build out there. Because of this offensive bias, the survivability aspect is shot straight to hell. I think that we need to be addressing this build like any other purely offensive build: it is meant to kill at least one target. i think that the damage output is slow ans stoppable, i think that this build is a prime target for diversion, and i believe also that the reason that this build is viewed as overpowered is because when people play against it and get raped, they are simply lacking counters.

what class can compare to the damage outputted by this build and how would they stack up in a 1v1?

the design behind the assassin is to be able to successfully take out any target in a 1v1 situation. This is exactly what the class achieves. the balance aspect comes when there are 2 targets vs that single toon. depending on the mix, it can still be manageable (kill one target, kite till fully recharged) however as soon as we introduce a healer into the mix, that sin is officially boned! The soj sin has no/ little/ horribly ineffective healing. the AL is low, and ele damage hurts like hell, not to mention the fact that snares and hexes blow this build out of the water.

so i guess what im trying to say is that if you want this build stopped, nerf hammer wars, thumpers, and every other annoying sin build you can think of.

edit: bad grammar, laziness, just acknowledging the fact that i suck at typing. didnt fix anything tho.

Sab · Oct 30, 2007, 05:04 PM // 17:04

A/Mos have been and still are a problem in TA, but you can't really see this unless you've actually faced a 3x A/Mo team before.

They carry around three KDs each, which is not only plenty of offense, but defense as well. One guy locks on to your Monk and the other two chain KDs your front/midline. While it's easy to say "just Diversion/D-Shot it" (which isn't a good argument for any balance issue), the build doesn't rely on a single skill, apart from maybe Dancing Daggers. Disrupting one skill just means they'll KD you with the other two skills.

As for disrupting their skills, Deadly Paradox makes it impossible to interrupt on reflex. While it's simple to D-Shot someone who queues up their skills, an A/Mo who's slightly smart (or is so bad that they press buttons out of order) will wait a second before using the next skill.

In the whole scheme of things, there are three of these guys running around, and they each need a large amount of disruption to really stop.

crucifix · Oct 31, 2007, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

A/Mos have been and still are a problem in TA, but you can't really see this unless you've actually faced a 3x A/Mo team before.

They carry around three KDs each, which is not only plenty of offense, but defense as well. One guy locks on to your Monk and the other two chain KDs your front/midline. While it's easy to say "just Diversion/D-Shot it" (which isn't a good argument for any balance issue), the build doesn't rely on a single skill, apart from maybe Dancing Daggers. Disrupting one skill just means they'll KD you with the other two skills.

As for disrupting their skills, Deadly Paradox makes it impossible to interrupt on reflex. While it's simple to D-Shot someone who queues up their skills, an A/Mo who's slightly smart (or is so bad that they press buttons out of order) will wait a second before using the next skill.

In the whole scheme of things, there are three of these guys running around, and they each need a large amount of disruption to really stop.

they only have 2 kd's, unless bane signet is for some odd reason used, and SoJ is a 1 sec cast. thats a prime target for an int. If its a problem in TA, bring anti kd shit. ward of stability im sure is relatively easy to include. The point that I was trying to get across is that 3 of one type of offensive toon and one healer is always a problem if you don't have a counter.

Sab · Oct 31, 2007, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by crucifix

they only have 2 kd's, unless bane signet is for some odd reason used, and SoJ is a 1 sec cast. thats a prime target for an int. If its a problem in TA, bring anti kd shit. ward of stability im sure is relatively easy to include. The point that I was trying to get across is that 3 of one type of offensive toon and one healer is always a problem if you don't have a counter.

Bane Sig or Iron Palm is often used in the 7th slot.

And standard balanced TA builds don't have room for Stability, which raises another point - the counters are too narrow and require luck on your side (anti-KD and interrupts, respectively).

I can't think of any other 3-offense build that's a real problem, except maybe D/Mo way, but that's another story.

Pyro maniac · Oct 31, 2007, 01:28 PM // 13:28

need a build with [skill]Balthazar's Pendulum[/skill] ... =/

crucifix · Oct 31, 2007, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Bane Sig or Iron Palm is often used in the 7th slot.

And standard balanced TA builds don't have room for Stability, which raises another point - the counters are too narrow and require luck on your side (anti-KD and interrupts, respectively).

I can't think of any other 3-offense build that's a real problem, except maybe D/Mo way, but that's another story.

IMO that last kd is wasteful, i dont use it. also, castigation works a bit better; energy sucks on sins. I dont really see how an ele cant make its way into a TA build. Kd's are always a problem, it doesn't matter how few or how many are there. therefore, i see no reason why a warder/ anti kd utility shouldn't be mandatory in any TA build, especially because the meta for TA is apparently heavy on kd's, otherwise we wouldn't be having this debate.

Sab · Oct 31, 2007, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by crucifix

IMO that last kd is wasteful, i dont use it. also, castigation works a bit better; energy sucks on sins. I dont really see how an ele cant make its way into a TA build. Kd's are always a problem, it doesn't matter how few or how many are there. therefore, i see no reason why a warder/ anti kd utility shouldn't be mandatory in any TA build, especially because the meta for TA is apparently heavy on kd's, otherwise we wouldn't be having this debate.

If you don't mind me asking, do you play TA?

Eles are pretty useless right now. Ebon Dust, Curses Necro or Inep Mes does a better job of physical shutdown while providing stronger pressure. Rits have better offensive and defensive support with a spike assist. With those options existing, I don't see any reason to run an Ele, let alone running Stability on that Ele.

As for putting a Stability on a /E secondary, there are relatively few KD spam builds compared to enchant-heavy or hex-heavy builds. So chances are, you'll want an open secondary to be /N for Rend or /Mo for Purge. Aura of Stability is viable, but you'll find you're sacrificing a lot when you fit that in your bar.

And yes, Balthazar's Pendulum/WoR Rit is viable too, but it loses to strong physical pressure due to the lack of prots and weak condition removal.

Almighty Zi · Nov 01, 2007, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Augrey of Death allows any caster to inflict a deep wound which encourages solo spike builds such as the E/A, N/A and the good ol' A/x.

It doesn't make the game enjoyable when you have to use your skills wisely (hence actually be good at the game) while someone else can simply 'outplay' you be pressing their numbered keys one after another in the correct order. I don't think that forcing folk to bring hard counters to these spikers adds to the fun factor either.

Its obvious that the skill balancers don't get this at all. They would rather keep as many builds and classes as viable as possible for PvP - even if it makes the game less enjoyable.

crucifix · Nov 01, 2007, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

If you don't mind me asking, do you play TA?

Eles are pretty useless right now. Ebon Dust, Curses Necro or Inep Mes does a better job of physical shutdown while providing stronger pressure. Rits have better offensive and defensive support with a spike assist. With those options existing, I don't see any reason to run an Ele, let alone running Stability on that Ele.

As for putting a Stability on a /E secondary, there are relatively few KD spam builds compared to enchant-heavy or hex-heavy builds. So chances are, you'll want an open secondary to be /N for Rend or /Mo for Purge. Aura of Stability is viable, but you'll find you're sacrificing a lot when you fit that in your bar.

And yes, Balthazar's Pendulum/WoR Rit is viable too, but it loses to strong physical pressure due to the lack of prots and weak condition removal.

am i speaking a different language? My point is that if the build is a problem, counter it. You know its there, you know its a problem, bring counters.

edit: yes i do play TA. and its easy on a ridiculous scale now. Not many good players float around there any more.

kosh · Nov 01, 2007, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almighty Zi

Augrey of Death allows any caster to inflict a deep wound which encourages solo spike builds such as the E/A, N/A and the good ol' A/x.

It doesn't make the game enjoyable when you have to use your skills wisely (hence actually be good at the game) while someone else can simply 'outplay' you be pressing their numbered keys one after another in the correct order. I don't think that forcing folk to bring hard counters to these spikers adds to the fun factor either.

Its obvious that the skill balancers don't get this at all. They would rather keep as many builds and classes as viable as possible for PvP - even if it makes the game less enjoyable.

lets dont forget the r/a that abuse expertise. the d/a with Avatar of Lyssa, so just about anyone can run the same build and abuse it... yay izzy lets just make a sealed deck game with rao and x/a, oh wait, isnt it now?

blame izzy.

moko · Nov 01, 2007, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by crucifix

am i speaking a different language? My point is that if the build is a problem, counter it. You know its there, you know its a problem, bring counters.

edit: yes i do play TA. and its easy on a ridiculous scale now. Not many good players float around there any more.

and the language you are speaking is incredibly dumb.

do you know the currently best counter to it? it involves another goddamn gimmick. ISN'T THAT AWESOME?

"bring a counter" is the worst argument in the whole game, stop arguing that way, that's not how to balance in your own little mind. anymore of this trash will be deleted.

oh btw, hi it's team arenas, keep in mind you don't have a lot of space. get it?

crucifix · Nov 01, 2007, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

and the language you are speaking is incredibly dumb.

do you know the currently best counter to it? it involves another goddamn gimmick. ISN'T THAT AWESOME?

"bring a counter" is the worst argument in the whole game, stop arguing that way, that's not how to balance in your own little mind. anymore of this trash will be deleted.

oh btw, hi it's team arenas, keep in mind you don't have a lot of space. get it?

thanks for telling me why wards are good. I come from this standpoint because I know that if I roll into TA with 3 buddies we can roll through a team setup like due to the fact that we prepare for it.

Oh, and im a firm believer that the player cannot dictate how the game is shaped. I agree that it helps, but all this community does is complain. Coming from the standpoint of an anet employee don't you think that this constant bitching makes your superiors (as far as the playing of this game is concerned) feel inferior? they try pretty damn hard to make this game playable but its never enough for the guildwars community. Do you know why we end up with horribly imbalanced skills? its because the anet dev team actually does listen to us and all we do is rush them to kick out updated content. So in conclusion, maybe if we relax a bit on the constant libel over gamebalance something will get done.

cliff notes version: stop complaining and let people do their job.

moko · Nov 01, 2007, 03:38 PM // 15:38

i don't agree that wards are so good, they're fairly useless vs good teams, even good A/Mo teams would most likely manage to shutdown (run after placement, use their brain when it's most likely getting up and KD it).

also a ball in the ward isn't that awesome etc bla bla. if RaOs were currently still popular, i'd agree on the ward choice. also after the sandstorm nerf it's quite of silly to take a dedicated warder. bla bla i could list more why many people simply refuse to bring a counter to it (you are right that it is not THAT hard to spec vs it and still be good) but meh. maybe people still need to realise the beaty of dual mindblast with good utility and damage.

another point of lack of space is that there's quite many different gimmicks.

i do agree a lot on your view on the game balancers being stressed by the community though. i'm not gonna go deeper into that though as it's kind of offtopic (maybe make a new topic on it? a discussion might turn out quite interesting).

but tbh, after the slight nerf to dparadox, i think the build has been weakened quite a lot, and it's made it even easier to survive them now. (i play monk, and i tell you, it's rather easy to handle the situation alone if you have experience against them).