Curse

la_cabra_de_vida · Jan 20, 2008, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

In a support to how sad and pathetic monk healing capability is right now, consider the standard HA meta. If you run only 2 monks in HA, you are committing suicide. HA is a hard-core amount of frontloaded damage, with a large emphasis on the spike. Without a third monk (your typical backline is RC/prot, WoH/Infuse, HB/Heal Party), you die from pressure very easily. When you think about it, being forced to carry three monks or build like GvG is rather ridiculous. Before the LoD nerf, 3 monks was considered overkill.

2 Monk backline is possible, but the teams i see run it carry HEV, and go insanely heavy snares and wards; and are just damn good. But you are right that two monks in ha is pretty much suicide.

Kaon · Jan 20, 2008, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yue

That a joke?

No.

Rangers and mesmers interrupt enemy mid and backline.
Paragon has an amazing damage output (while maintaining a sick amount of defense)

Yes and people do die really quickly in the games I play. Perhaps urbad?

Tactical play is rewarded in both 8v8 (correct spikes, positioning) and in split, we do it daily.

There is no way of disagreeing with me, as these are facts.

Vaga · Jan 20, 2008, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

No.

Rangers and mesmers interrupt enemy mid and backline.
Paragon has an amazing damage output (while maintaining a sick amount of defense)

Yes and people do die really quickly in the games I play. Perhaps urbad?

Tactical play is rewarded in both 8v8 (correct spikes, positioning) and in split, we do it daily.

There is no way of disagreeing with me, as these are facts.

The balance is good in terms of there not being too much build wars, pretty much every game is rock vs rock and there's basically no paper. However I think almost everyone would prefer if rock was something else more fun, more strategical and less interrupt based rather than blockway, so for most people the game isn't 'perfectly' balanced.

DutchSmurf · Jan 20, 2008, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaga

The balance is good in terms of there not being too much build wars, pretty much every game is rock vs rock and there's basically no paper. However I think almost everyone would prefer if rock was something else more fun, more strategical and less interrupt based rather than blockway, so for most people the game isn't 'perfectly' balanced.

Problem is that it is better then most alternatives. And it isn't like there is only one build either. There are at least 2 main ones and some more which are slightly edited versions of those 2. And at the moment, nothing is stopping people from running something like condition pressure either. Just because nobody does it doesn't mean it is viable. Most guilds copy their build from someone else after all.
If I see how some guilds are playing their current builds then I seriously wonder why people at the forum here are wanting a more strategical game. But then I don't see the US games, maybe things are different there. And even if blockway is a problem (I don't think something like blockway exists, but lets imagine it does), there are enough skills that are counters to it. Skills that aren't interrupts. Ghostly Weapon is one of those. It doesn't make all your attacks unblockable, but really, I doubt anyone wants something that can do that. There is Guided Weapon tho. But Ghostly Weapon last 5 seconds with 0 Cummuning. More then enough to get a critical skill (Bull's Strike, Eviscerate, Distracting Shot) through. And thanks to the 1 second recharge and 1/4 second casttime, you can even use it to get both Eviscerate and Executioner's through. Still with 0 points in the attribute.

Yue · Jan 20, 2008, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

No.

Rangers and mesmers interrupt enemy mid and backline.
Paragon has an amazing damage output (while maintaining a sick amount of defense)

Yes and people do die really quickly in the games I play. Perhaps urbad?

Tactical play is rewarded in both 8v8 (correct spikes, positioning) and in split, we do it daily.

There is no way of disagreeing with me, as these are facts.

Pretty sure balanced now is worse than balanced in lod meta.

Kaon · Jan 20, 2008, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yue

Pretty sure balanced now is worse than balanced in lod meta.

Yep. But that's not the issue.

wuzzman · Jan 20, 2008, 07:41 PM // 19:41

its the SAME meta...instead of a DA/Cruel Spear para we have a Sop Para.....also there is little reason to run Meledrus Derv because no one brings blind anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

Problem is that it is better then most alternatives. And it isn't like there is only one build either. There are at least 2 main ones and some more which are slightly edited versions of those 2. And at the moment, nothing is stopping people from running something like condition pressure either. Just because nobody does it doesn't mean it is viable. Most guilds copy their build from someone else after all.
If I see how some guilds are playing their current builds then I seriously wonder why people at the forum here are wanting a more strategical game. But then I don't see the US games, maybe things are different there. And even if blockway is a problem (I don't think something like blockway exists, but lets imagine it does), there are enough skills that are counters to it. Skills that aren't interrupts. Ghostly Weapon is one of those. It doesn't make all your attacks unblockable, but really, I doubt anyone wants something that can do that. There is Guided Weapon tho. But Ghostly Weapon last 5 seconds with 0 Cummuning. More then enough to get a critical skill (Bull's Strike, Eviscerate, Distracting Shot) through. And thanks to the 1 second recharge and 1/4 second casttime, you can even use it to get both Eviscerate and Executioner's through. Still with 0 points in the attribute.

so your expecting people to run W/rt for ghostly weapon...sounds like fail...

DutchSmurf · Jan 20, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

so your expecting people to run W/rt for ghostly weapon...sounds like fail...

Nope, since unlike you, I know the skill description of Ghostly Weapon.

wuzzman · Jan 20, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Ghostly Weapon
For 5-17 seconds, target other ally's next attack can not be blocked.

sounds like fail to me...

Ec]-[oMaN · Jan 20, 2008, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaga

The balance is good in terms of there not being too much build wars, pretty much every game is rock vs rock and there's basically no paper. However I think almost everyone would prefer if rock was something else more fun, more strategical and less interrupt based rather than blockway, so for most people the game isn't 'perfectly' balanced.

Pretty much LOD opened up much more midline variations, right now that's not that case, very bland times.

wuzzman · Jan 20, 2008, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

Pretty much LOD opened up much more midline variations, right now that's not that case, very bland times.

like hell it did.......unless you call sig of humilty of dom mesmers variation.

Tab · Jan 20, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

like hell it did.......unless you call sig of humilty of dom mesmers variation.

Are you really that bad? He's referring to the fact that you pretty much need either a heal party bitch runner or a SoR para to stay alive now, meaning your midline is worse.

Farin · Jan 20, 2008, 08:33 PM // 20:33

All it takes for everyone to realize how mediocre 'perfect balance' and party healing are is someone with the balls and brains to run a decent build that exploits all the current weaknesses. Once this happens everyone's magic world where everything is perfect will collapse. You think it's perfect? It's not.

dies like fish · Jan 20, 2008, 08:38 PM // 20:38

LoD allowed teams to have a flag runner that could base defend. Now the runner is forced to be the stand team's pot-carrying bitch. If you are able to run a flagger that can defend the base against a split, you can roll the other team's stand team and wipe their base instead of sending back 3 of your players to defend a split.

wuzzman · Jan 20, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets

Are you really that bad? He's referring to the fact that you pretty much need either a heal party bitch runner or a SoR para to stay alive now, meaning your midline is worse.

no ones run a Heal Part bitch. People ran DA para or Crual Spear with watch yourself + shields up para when lod was around. They also had an Shield of Regeneration flag runner (some teams just had a monk) who often carried Aegis.

DutchSmurf · Jan 20, 2008, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

Ghostly Weapon
For 5-17 seconds, target other ally's next attack can not be blocked.

sounds like fail to me...

"target other ally" so your suggestion to use a W/Rt was just fail (using your words). But if people think blockway is a problem, then they should be running skills like that. It isn't like it is hard to fit in. It doesn't require much (if any) investment. And it gives you an unblockable attack when you need one. Now you explain why it sounds like fail.

And I agree with RaZoO. Same can be said about any metagame tho. And people with balls AND brains are rare. That rare that getting 8 in a guild almost never happens. I don't remember much variation in the LoD times btw, but that might just be me.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jan 20, 2008, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

no ones run a Heal Part bitch. People ran DA para or Crual Spear with watch yourself + shields up para when lod was around. They also had an Shield of Regeneration flag runner (some teams just had a monk) who often carried Aegis.

Thanks you just acknowledged that their was at least bar variations

, and different flag runners.

wuzzman · Jan 20, 2008, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by dies like fish

LoD allowed teams to have a flag runner that could base defend. Now the runner is forced to be the stand team's pot-carrying bitch. If you are able to run a flagger that can defend the base against a split, you can roll the other team's stand team and wipe their base instead of sending back 3 of your players to defend a split.

wrong. most teams in the LoD age ran 3 man ganks (1 war,1 ranger, 1 SoR Ele) unless there was 2 man recall sp sin gankers. some teams even ran 2 sp sins with 1 healer for support. Later in the lod age teams that intended to gank droped the SoR ele for a monk runner. A SoR ele could back then prevent a solo gank and mimimize the damage done by a 2 man gank making them withdraw eventually even without calling in a ranger or a warrior (not too many gankers too self heals).

Eventually to push deeper into the base teams ran 3 man ganks. SoR eles or even monk runners can't defend the base entirely against a 3 monk gank so sending more players back to defend became necessary.

Tab · Jan 20, 2008, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

no ones run a Heal Part bitch. People ran DA para or Crual Spear with watch yourself + shields up para when lod was around. They also had an Shield of Regeneration flag runner (some teams just had a monk) who often carried Aegis.

DF run a HP flagger for a start.
The difference between before and after is that you weren't forced into taking a certain midline before.

dies like fish · Jan 20, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

wrong. most teams in the LoD age ran 3 man ganks (1 war,1 ranger, 1 SoR Ele) unless there was 2 man recall sp sin gankers. some teams even ran 2 sp sins with 1 healer for support. Later in the lod age teams that intended to gank droped the SoR ele for a monk runner. A SoR ele could back then prevent a solo gank and mimimize the damage done by a 2 man gank making them withdraw eventually even without calling in a ranger or a warrior (not too many gankers too self heals).

Eventually to push deeper into the base teams ran 3 man ganks. SoR eles or even monk runners can't defend the base entirely against a 3 monk gank so sending more players back to defend became necessary.

The SoR ele gave the stand team enough time to roll the other team and collapse on the split.