Curse

Kaon · Feb 08, 2008, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

If you rely purely on splinter farming then you have probably already given the other team the damage bonus.

Only a fool would rely purely on splinter farming. But what's that got to do with my post?

JR · Feb 08, 2008, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

True, although it's not like GoE mesmers are particularly healthy...

I didn't mind them in their old shape, it's not like it was a particularly dominant template (pun lolz). They are probably a bit too strong now though...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Only a fool would rely purely on splinter farming. But what's that got to do with my post?

The main reason why I hated the splinter/ancestors combo was that it was such a strong one trick pony. Play defensively untill VoD then win. Now you are at least still encouraged to split and gain an NPC advantage before VoD, though I'm not saying splinter is fine by any means.

ChopChop · Feb 08, 2008, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

The main reason why I hated the splinter/ancestors combo was that it was such a strong one trick pony. Play defensively untill VoD then win. Now you are at least still encouraged to split and gain an NPC advantage before VoD, though I'm not saying splinter is fine by any means.

But what you got now are builds that do both, split while playing defense and splinter farm. .. essentially reaping the benefits from both worlds with no risk involved.

Farin · Feb 08, 2008, 07:08 PM // 19:08

nerf splinter and ancestor's already :x

Ensign · Feb 08, 2008, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Can someone point me to a game on obs where NPCs are being splinter farmed?

Burton2000 · Feb 08, 2008, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Glyph of energy is back to a 10 recharge. Anyone know what other skills got changed?

JR · Feb 08, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burton2000

Glyph of energy is back to a 10 recharge. Anyone know what other skills got changed?

Pretty sure that was the only change.

Andrew Patrick · Feb 08, 2008, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burton2000

Glyph of energy is back to a 10 recharge. Anyone know what other skills got changed?

There was also a bug with Power Lock fixed, but other than that for this update, that is the only skill change. We are still evaluating the balance update, however, and more changes are likely to follow.

Shuuda · Feb 08, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Well, there are surely no arguements over increasing it's recharge back.

Cirian · Feb 08, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirian

What I'd like is for the flagstand and NPC count to re-enforce each other, so that you have to manage both resources.

Why is this better than a VoD without that mechanic, where morale and NPCs are both essential resources that are worthwhile on their own merit instead of creating a multiplicative advantage to polarize VoD even more?

Are they both worthwhile on their own merit right now? If so then fine, but why is Izzy tinkering with VoD mechanics?

Something else to think about is keeping the resources balanced against current and future play styles. What better way could be guaranteed than by linking them if there's only 2 resources? Do you have a future proof idea?

Andrew Patrick · Feb 08, 2008, 09:42 PM // 21:42

I posted this in another thread, but it seems to be relevant here as well:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

The designers want to encourage more movement and aggressive play in GvG, rather than an 18minute stalemate at the flag stand. With blockweb + Splinter Weapon Nuke, GvG was essentially a ~20minute endurance match where most of the action took place between 18 and ~21ish minutes.

The designers are looking for changes that make the battle prior to VoD more important/exciting, and in turn, more fun. Though we are aware that balance may have been shifted too far from Flagstand/Morale to NPC advantage. We are evaluating the changes to try to find the right balance between the importance of the flagstand/morale and NPCs.

langola · Feb 08, 2008, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

I posted this in another thread, but it seems to be relevant here as well:

The balance has been insanely shifted to the base. I would trade morale for one archer. GG 40% damage.

Age · Feb 08, 2008, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

I posted this in another thread, but it seems to be relevant here as well:

How long would you like a tourney to go on for 30 or less?

Andrew Patrick · Feb 08, 2008, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

How long would you like a tourney to go on for 30 or less?

It's not a matter of how long a battle takes (although with the ATS it does need to end by the time limit heh) it's a matter of what is going on during the duration of the match. With blockweb, quite often it felt like both teams were really just killing time waiting for VoD when the match really started. While the split-centric meta certainly has it's down sides, I will say it has made the first 18 minutes of the match much more important/fun than the previous meta did.

Ec]-[oMaN · Feb 08, 2008, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

While the split-centric meta certainly has it's down sides, I will say it has made the first 18 minutes of the match much more important/fun than the previous meta did.

Again I agree Andrew, but at this point in time I don't think there is any denying the fact that the VIO buff is just way too much, think we've covered it in the other thread that currently there is just NO merit to building for 8v8(besides map factor, regardless of the VIO effect, party d and party heal have all been buffed and or ignored, that screams just as much incentive to run better mobile/diverse templates than previously, also DON'T forget, the team that has more NPC's regardless of VIO still already has the upper hand when NPC's receive a dmg bonus every minute till the game ends... splits tend to keep splitting even in vod if they have a brain, because that equates to less dmg and heal resources left on the 8v8 build....

Kanishka · Feb 08, 2008, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick
The designers want to encourage more movement and aggressive play in GvG, rather than an 18minute stalemate at the flag stand. With blockweb + Splinter Weapon Nuke, GvG was essentially a ~20minute endurance match where most of the action took place between 18 and ~21ish minutes.

The fault is in the blockweb, IMHO. It shouldn't be so easy to turtle. There are too many party-wide defense layers. The new VoD/ViO mechanics are not addressing that issue; they rather reduce strategic options (i.e. you ha to split or gg).

Andrew Patrick · Feb 08, 2008, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

I don't think there is any denying the fact that the VIO buff is just way too much

And it is likely it will be adjusted. I tend to agree with you that having NPCs with +40% damage and getting +15% damage for your party members from one dimension of the game (NPCs) is quite a huge buff vs +10% MB for holding morale. Like I said, the designers are trying to find the right balance between protecting your base/attacking your enemies base and holding the flag stand. We are gathering feedback and assessing the changes to determine what needs to be tweaked.

Yue · Feb 08, 2008, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

The designers want to encourage more movement and aggressive play in GvG, rather than an 18minute stalemate at the flag stand. With blockweb + Splinter Weapon Nuke, GvG was essentially a ~20minute endurance match where most of the action took place between 18 and ~21ish minutes.

You don't fix that by buffing splits to the point where people are forced to run dedicated splits. Fix the skills that cause that to happen, namely splinter weapon. The original blockweb was hardly a problem. PreLOD nerf you can fit in enough shutdown to deal with blockweb 8v8. After LoD nerf, you can't because you're forced to run a source of party heals.

Added on to that, even if you tried to split with a balanced build, people could typically hold against a collapse long enough with the partygon for the rest of their team to arrive. So, instead, people run dedicated splits that implemented broken mechanics (ex: shadow stepping).

So what's the problem? Instead of nerfing the partygon, it got buffed. The updates to party healing with divine healing and LoD is decent. Everything else is pretty retarded, especially the VoD change since it promotes playing either defensive as shit keeping up all your npcs until vod or dedicated splitting. And nerf to power leak? Wtf? It was overpowered, but a nerf to it's recharge time would have been enough. Maybe a drop it a few energy, but other than that, it's fine.

Quote:

While the split-centric meta certainly has it's down sides, I will say it has made the first 18 minutes of the match much more important/fun than the previous meta did.

I'm sure you had alot of fun playing against sin split for 18 minutes before vod last monthly. Ups, you didn't play in the last monthly.

Andrew Patrick · Feb 09, 2008, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yue

you didn't play in the last monthly.

An unfortunate truth, but it is certainly not because I don't want to participate. http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...ibleguilds.php

Zuranthium · Feb 09, 2008, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Well, there are surely no arguements over increasing it's recharge back.

Meh, I think it was good at 7 sec recharge. Just needs to be tied to Energy Storage (and perhaps killed for non-Elementalists...there are so many other Mesmer Elites out there that should really be seeing play).

~Z