Curse

Adam of Tyria · Feb 13, 2008, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Why is this skill becoming so popular? Whatever happened to the "Healing now is better than healing later", factor.

Sleeping Endy · Feb 13, 2008, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Here's the benefits I see in the skill.

1.) 1/4 sec cast... even dazed its 1/2 sec, so its a solid 130+ heal (with df bonus) thats hard to interrupt
2.) Its cast and forget which lets you heal "while kiting". Even removing the enchant target gets healed.
3.) Its a pretty heavy heal for only 5 energy and short recharge
4.) You can spike heal with a sig of rejuv or other longer cast skill?

Those are just my observations in having tried it.

LuckyGiant · Feb 13, 2008, 01:07 AM // 01:07

The healing comes later factor isnt so much of a prob in TA as pressure is the usual thing to destroy a team, but TA monk bars are quite tight and I can think of much better stuff to use in the slot patient would be in.

That said, I don't have GWEN so haven't tried it, it could be really effective or just lazy monking ^^

TheOneMephisto · Feb 13, 2008, 01:47 AM // 01:47

The prevalence of daze/interrupts in TA (even more than GvG), especially with stuff like old warmongers (is it still used?) and the fact that there is only one monk with little off-monk support means that a high priority is placed on hard to disrupt spells as long as they're anything near good at what they do.

valence · Feb 13, 2008, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Even though the ta monk bar might be tight, nearly every zb / woh bar got 1 optional slot.

Woh - Rof - Guardian - Mend/Draw - Mending Touch - Veil

is the standard bar, leaving 1 slot usually for a stance and 1 what ever you want. Patient is good for the reasons given by the posters above, and often therefor chosen in the variable slot.

Another reason why you might see PSpirit being spammed the crap out of it, is due to the 'new' Healers Covenant builds.

Phe Belladona · Feb 13, 2008, 02:25 AM // 02:25

also mesmer RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO up if used to cover whatever the shatter enchant now heals for 30 (plus 96 if covering spirit bond)

Sab · Feb 13, 2008, 02:53 AM // 02:53

So WoH doesn't become a single point of failure. Patient Spirit prevents your team from popping when WoH is shut down.

Sun Fired Blank · Feb 13, 2008, 08:08 AM // 08:08

I know several highly qualified monks (quite higher than my g5) using hybrid WoH bars that opt for Patient over Reversal. After some thought, I definitely understand the choice. Reversal is nice, but very rarely does it ever outright save a person for any situation, and it can get eaten up rather quickly with marginal benefit. Reversal is not a very strong absolute heal; outside of that capacity, it only realizes potential against spikes, and I can't remember a spike in recent memory that demands a Reversal to stop, even if you don't have a targeted solution on your bar.

To be frank, Patient Spirit may be a stronger stopgap than Reversal of Fortune. It may not be instant response and it may not be able to undo as much damage, but rarely is that delay a problem. The consistent heal of Patient is probably more desireable than Reversal's potential range of healing, and the optimum value of Reversal's range is fairly comparable to Patient's guarenteed heal.

On a slightly unrelated note, the Healer's Covenant monk that valence mentioned is only strong as a meta choice. Once it forces a transition to heavy physical setups, it likely won't be that pervasive, but necromancers are likely to be out of demand for a bit.

moko · Feb 13, 2008, 09:18 AM // 09:18

why Patient Spirit is so good:

it allows terrible players to farm with dual Monks and 123456 mash melees.

an absolutely brainless skill (on a brainless bar) with a good effect that is near to impossible to mess up.

as for the other bars -- i personally don't like it at all. i would prefer mend condition or rof over it any day, and that's usually the spot i'll need free.

i personally always laugh at terrible monks that use patient when someone is getting spiked, cause they're just used to spamming it and it's pretty hard to actually preprot.

i can understand Sab's point, though. despite the fact that nobody diverted, dshotted or shutted my ZB (not really a difference to WoH) in the past month, i don't see why it's actually needed if you don't *completely* fail..but meh.

but the main reason is that it's pretty easy to use and ignores a lot of forms of TA shutdowns.

Mr Pink57 · Feb 13, 2008, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Silly thoughts have crossed my mind of taking it over GoH.... silly one.

pink

Barkeep · Feb 13, 2008, 09:40 AM // 09:40

I see why monks prefer patient over rof, especially when playing against the meta war/ranger/nec rof is not gonna help you much when WoH is d-shotted and everybody is degening.

And apart from mokos, who's ZB is magically enchanted with uninterruptability and karla who uses (used? ive been away for a month) mantra of con, you always have a risk of getting a random lucky d-shot on it. Even against the worst rangers.

Aera · Feb 13, 2008, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Patient Spirit is so nice because of all the degen teams around ( you know, Necro spamming Faintheartedness, Corrupt etc and a Ranger with Apply etc ) and RoF won't do the trick in that case.

I do not however, see why people don't run both RoF and Patient Spirit, as both are more useful in different situations.

And ye like Moko said, every nub can spam it with Healer's Covenant /yawn

the_deSKtructor · Feb 13, 2008, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Most of the monks i play with take both patient and reversal.

Draak · Feb 13, 2008, 01:54 PM // 13:54

The most important factor is, as said, the 1/4 cast. And in TA/RA it's the most effective vs migrane mesmers. If you don't have a ranger in your RA team, then the migrane mesmer (who usually has Sig of humility also) can make short work out of almost every monk in the opposing team.

Elu Arina · Feb 13, 2008, 05:54 PM // 17:54

@Sun Fired Blank
Anyone who would bring Patient Spirit over RoF because it heals more, regardless of how highly ranked they may be, is probably a shitty monk. That is, quite frankly, a naive way of looking at monk skills that reveals little to no understanding of the profession as a whole.

And anyone who runs a healing elite without a secondary heal is asking for trouble, especially in the arenas when all party healing is dependent upon a single player.

That said, Patient Spirit, as it is now, is decent at dealing with pressure. Its short cast time is a plus as well. Using it for anything else though means you're probably running a gimp bar.

urania · Feb 13, 2008, 06:04 PM // 18:04

it is good because:
-heals for the full amount even with deep wound applied on the target u have healed (very nice for covered deep wounds)
-gives a guaranteed high heal, unlike rof
-harder to interrupt (but not impossible)
-works wonders if ur healing elite gets shutdown
-works wonders vs daze
-works wonders vs migraine or any kind of illu spell that slows down casting time of spells
-if u didnt see a spike coming (most importainly, a hammer warr spike that uses guiding hands or w/e skill that makes a few attacks unblockable, the 2 sec delayed healing is pretty nice; its also nice if u just didnt see the spike coming, shit happens =P)

it is bad because:
-its absolutely overpowered on a healers conv bar
-it is spoiling a monk (in case of a hammer spike, for example)

at Elu, i bet u adore ZB+GoH combo

Elu Arina · Feb 13, 2008, 06:38 PM // 18:38

I used to run ZB and GoH. If ZB is down for any reason you are forced to rely solely on prots and df bonus. You can still do quite well in this situation, but the ability to keep healing is extremely useful. GoH helps against pressure builds as well. Prots don't do much when the majority of the other teams damage comes from degen and dispersed packets of damage. You can prot all you like, but in some situations, you're going to have to heal. Running both almost guarantees that you'll be able to heal when you need to.

After running both versions of the bar, I found I really liked the flexibility that GoH adds. I don't run ZB in arenas anymore though there is nothing wrong with that skill combination, and I don't see where one could really find much issue with it.

Edit: For the record, the ZB build I used to run was RoF, Dismiss, Veil, SB, Guardian, Return, ZB, and GoH. I can only think of a few things that would make sense in place of GoH. You could spec max Prot/DF with it, and go for a SoA, but I don't really like running two small prots on the same skill bar. You could bring Dark Escape, but other skills would probably have more utility. The bar doesn't need energy management unless you're bad. And anything else I could think of just really wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. If you can show me why a different configuration would be more ideal, I'm open to criticism.

Popo · Feb 13, 2008, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Since its last buff many underestimate this skill's use because it doesn't fit into the exact descriptions Monks are used to. On a WoH bar it requires a little different style of play to be used effectively. As previously said, the main attraction seems to be its ability to circumvent various shutdown techniques and its helpfulness against high pressure degen. This is the type of skill that makes general play "easier" on a Monk and it seems many disregard it for that reason. I like the skill, but the obvious deterrent is fitting on a bar. I usually do not use it, but I can see why people do.

P.S. I'm surprised many people say this skill sucks as a sort of "healing prot." A Monk's job is all about predicting damage and this skill has the ability to prevent death when used correctly in that way. It just requires much better timing because it flirts with danger a little more.

Sha Noran · Feb 13, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20

This skill would be good if it weren't for the overwhelming number of Monk skills that are better.

Magikarp · Feb 13, 2008, 11:27 PM // 23:27

i always take RoF no matter what bar i run....

and i stll like patient (not all the time), in its own special way.