Curse

Byron · Mar 03, 2008, 05:13 PM // 17:13

The derv spike I've seen lately is anywhere from 5-10 billion damage with 2-3 enchantment removals. A good infuser will keep you alive, but you still have to worry about those tele insta-gibs. I really don't think RoF will work, nor do i think some form of compromised prot will save targets, but seeing as I'm a terrible monk, I have no official opinion.

What Now · Mar 03, 2008, 05:46 PM // 17:46

As a decent infuser, not even good, I dont find the spikes too much a problem, just infuse. Only time it is an issue is when I'm the one being spiked and the prot monks clueless as to what to do.

Only change I could suggest is to make grenths remove enchantments on end, not if removed early for people who prefer to stick to preproting.

The main issue I have with this spike is the AoE. I can infuse the target, I sometimes have to infuse the target AND someone near them, but when upto 3 people get hit at once someones bound to die. But I guess thats a team issue when fighting over the ward so I cant really blame the spike ^-^

Simply put it's not THAT godly, great damage and pressure but also easier to spike when AoB is down and such.

Now that I think about it I prefer monking these spikes than constant KD because the last few dervish spikes I could just RoF myself and kite around at times. We run a shock warrior with a D/A for that reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XiaoTheBlade

A nice, yet unrealistic counter to this would be a new paragon elite.

Basically a partywide RoF shout.

5e 15r
Elite Shout. The next two times each party member within earshot takes damage, that damage is negated and that party member gains 10-80(?) health.

Maybe a little overpowered, but hey overpoweredness is the paragons job isn't it? ;p

Or how about this one!

Angelic Protection- For 10 seconds, any time target other ally takes more than 250...130 damage per second, that ally is healed for any damage over that amount.
5e 30r

And when you see something go POOF every 30 seconds you can use it on them ^-^

Oh wait...thats already a skill

which to be honest I've used in HA with decent results now that it comes up.

Ec]-[oMaN · Mar 03, 2008, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by What Now

Now that I think about it I prefer monking these spikes than constant KD because the last few dervish spikes I could just RoF myself and kite around at times. We run a shock warrior with a D/A for that reason.

or you could just run a water ele which allows your derv to unload with ease on the spike and use the KD on something else during the spike ^^ like on um the infuser since prots don't mean jack.

Phe Belladona · Mar 04, 2008, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

a dervspike requires you to get a BIG advantage before VoD happens, or you will get torn apart.

because there is nothing more worthless at vod than 2 110 armour teleporting dervishes with chilling victory and splinter, a mesmer who can play COMPLETELY defensively, a bsurger and a 3rd defensive midliner of your choice! do you honestly think this build cares if it doesnt have a BIG advantage at VoD?

Andrew Patrick · Mar 04, 2008, 01:55 AM // 01:55

I've infused against a few of dervspikes, and yeah...INSANE. Your prot monk can do little to help your team placing a lot of weight on your infuser's shoulders. It is catchable with infuse, but of course...you can't infuse yourself. Pre-protting is a matter of guess work since shadow-stepping makes for an almost non-existent warning to your backline. And even if they do throw some prot on the target, it gets removed.

As a Monk I am in awe at the face-pwning abilities of dervspike, I really am. It pretty much negates prot monks, which leaves the infuser, and your Bsurge to keep your team from exploding. And with it's own midline in place to help shut those down...yes, I can certainly see your point when you suggest this build may be a bit much.

Izzy tells me Derv Spike AND Sinsplit will both be addressed in this weeks update. Once that goes live, we will be gathering feedback to assess any reverts or additions that are needed.

romO · Mar 04, 2008, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by flclisgreat

well will someone atleast post the buid so i can mess with it in RA or something before it gets nerfed(i dont pvp that much)

You can't bring 8 characters into RA.

Anyway,
D/A melandru/balth Chilling+pious+eremites, death charge, grenth aura, attackers insight, guided hands
D/A melandru/balth Chilling+pious+eremites, death charge, grenth aura, attackers insight, guided hands
E/Rt water or air (bsurge) with ancestors rage
P/W motigon
Me/x enchanters conundrum dom mes
Mo/E SoD
Mo/E WoH or HB
Mo/D, E/Mo, or Rt/A flag runner

Or just go into any obs mode match and watch the build there.

Darkside · Mar 04, 2008, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

The derv spike I've seen lately is anywhere from 5-10 billion damage with 2-3 enchantment removals. A good infuser will keep you alive, but you still have to worry about those tele insta-gibs. I really don't think RoF will work, nor do i think some form of compromised prot will save targets, but seeing as I'm a terrible monk, I have no official opinion.

Ha ha tele insta-gibs I like that.

Farin · Mar 04, 2008, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phe Belladona

because there is nothing more worthless at vod than 2 110 armour teleporting dervishes with chilling victory and splinter, a mesmer who can play COMPLETELY defensively, a bsurger and a 3rd defensive midliner of your choice! do you honestly think this build cares if it doesnt have a BIG advantage at VoD?

I believe he was referring to the non-derv spike team when he said you needed a big VoD advantage in order to beat them.

samcobra · Mar 04, 2008, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by moko

i can't believe you've properly played midline to really judge here. with the teleports, your reaction, cast time of bsurge (if you don't get lucky with FC all time) and the other team not being horrible, it's pretty much impossible to do a decent blinding on the spikes there all time.

besides, with most monks not being able to stop the spike properly, why would the the other midline NOT focus on shutting you down?

i'm wondering how heavy the balance will nerf it though.

edit; not meant to turn out as such hard words, but i've just seen and heard enough decent midliners that eventually couldn't do crap.

The only reliable counter to it is diversion. I've seen quite a few Bsurges running [skill]Hex Breaker[/skill] now, and it's pretty super!

And in terms of other shutdown, that mes bar carries shit for interrupts and most of the time it will be busy with EC/shatter on the spike, and won't be able to effectively counter with anything EXCEPT diversion, which can already be taken care of with a hexbreaker and/or a veil.

I've played that dervspike and the thing that shuts you down more than anything is unmitigated AoE anti-melee (blurred, bsurge, etc)

C2K · Mar 04, 2008, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

Izzy tells me Derv Spike AND Sinsplit will both be addressed in this weeks update. Once that goes live, we will be gathering feedback to assess any reverts or additions that are needed.

While this is immediately important, I hope skill balance didn't forget Blockway is waiting patiently for these builds to disappear, so I hope there is something to keep that gimmick in check as well(maybe fixing GoLE for instance and keep some meaning to splitting, but not in a ViO way).

TheHaxor · Mar 04, 2008, 07:19 AM // 07:19

I love playing to VoD every match for +2/+3 rating.

No, seriously.

JR · Mar 04, 2008, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

The derv spike I've seen lately is anywhere from 5-10 billion damage with 2-3 enchantment removals. A good infuser will keep you alive, but you still have to worry about those tele insta-gibs. I really don't think RoF will work, nor do i think some form of compromised prot will save targets, but seeing as I'm a terrible monk, I have no official opinion.

You can save it on a prot Monk if you are quick, just.

Reversal -> Spirit Bond -> Guardian -> Restore

One of those prots usually sticks and does something useful, keeping the target alive long enough to pull the deep. You sill need a WoH (or Gift if you have it) to push the bar back up though.

Postopac · Mar 04, 2008, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

You can save it on a prot Monk if you are quick, just.

Reversal -> Spirit Bond -> Guardian -> Restore

How many spikes are you going to save with that mana consumption? ;P

Div · Mar 04, 2008, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

I love playing to VoD every match for +2/+3 rating.

No, seriously.

And I love playing to VoD every match for +0/-5 rating.

JR · Mar 04, 2008, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postopac

How many spikes are you going to save with that mana consumption? ;P

That was kind of my point; it's ridiculous.

Honestly 8v8 Derv Spike is not a huge deal. It's still broken and way too strong, but people are quite right to say that solid monks can get through the spikes.

The biggest problem I have faced is derv spike with a strong split. They force you into an awkward situation because they only need very limited offense at the stand to require you to keep both monks there. With a Dom Mesmer and a Grenth's Aura Dervish you can strip all the prots in the world, and take down a single monk easily. If you want to reactively split against it you need three Monks.

newbie_of_doom · Mar 04, 2008, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Are we discussing RoF, spikes or derv spikes here?

Zabe · Mar 04, 2008, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postopac

How many spikes are you going to save with that mana consumption? ;P

If you use something like SB + RoF + RC and are not getting hitted by pleaks or shames, you can pretty much live with it, because there won't be any kind of big pressure coming.

Kaon · Mar 04, 2008, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Even if you do save their spikes you still have to pull a trick off otherwise the dervspike just rapes you in vod.

guild deputy · Mar 04, 2008, 02:02 PM // 14:02

the spike itself is kinda rediculous, but with some good positioning so no balling in ward, u should be able to infuse it or even preprot it.... just make sure u cover it well with patient spirit or another fast casted enchantment...

C2K · Mar 04, 2008, 03:14 PM // 15:14

I think the icing on the cake is that the spike is theoretically costing only 6 energy, 11 if you include guiding hands. Thats only 1/3 of a typical Dervish's energy.