Curse

Scrimbul · Mar 10, 2008, 06:57 AM // 06:57

[card]Visions of Regret[/card]

Right now this skill needs to be changed to trigger on all attack skills.

The way it is at the moment it doesn't stop dervishes, sins or rangers, which are the greater threat than partygons and warriors.

The recharge probably needs to be bumped to 30 seconds or 15 energy when this happens, but anymore than that will kill the skill further.

Longasc · Mar 10, 2008, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Numbers can be discussed, but your suggestion makes sense.

The skill would be much more powerful if it would trigger on all kinds of attack skills and much more versatile. (I was dragon-slashing some jotuns yesterday, it really hurt. This is why I noticed this thread...^^)

The problem is that it needs some kind of limiter, and longish recharges are such a pain. If it triggers on all kind of attack skills, it would basically become empathy on steroids. Both together are definitely nice.

Given the fact that Empathy has 10-2-20 and the following stats,
Hex Spell. For 5...13...15 seconds, whenever target foe attacks, that foe takes 10...46...55 damage.

Visions could be stronger indeed.

Another thing I do not like is that it is in Domination. Illusion has the other anti-melee stuff, but well, maybe this division is intended.

Scrimbul · Mar 10, 2008, 05:37 PM // 17:37

I don't see the problem with it being 'empathy on steroids'.

Spoil Victor and Wail of Doom already exists.

Empathy alone isn't enough to stop turret rangers or most dervishes because of the huge damage of each individual strike. This will make them think twice before hitting the Wearying Strike/Mystic/Eremites buttons or Sundering Attack/Penetrating Attack/Point Blank Shot/Dshot/Savage Shot buttons.

You also give up the ability to use your elite to spike assist, shut down monks or Glyph of Renewal, if this skill triggered on all attack skills it'd be as valuable as all those elites or Migraine, Ineptitude, etc.

The damage on the skill is perfect where it is. (I just realized it got nerfed in damage since the skill bar that the original post cites was made)

A long recharge on this skill isn't a problem since you can use Empathy, Mind Wrack, Diversion, Wastrel's Worry or Parasitic Bond all to cover the hex.

If you're going to allow dervs and rangers to have ridiculous IAS skills to solo spike with, then this skill needs to exist to punish spikers.

You also offer the interesting alternative of this hex to Bsurge to control melee/rangers.

Bobby2 · Mar 10, 2008, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrimbul

I don't see the problem with it being 'empathy on steroids'.

Redundancy much?

Quote:

Spoil Victor and Wail of Doom already exists.

Exactly. Let's not forget [skill]spiteful spirit[/skill].

Some Elites are crap. Some are good. Just pick the good ones.

kthxbai.

ax mastery · Mar 10, 2008, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Redundancy much?

Exactly. Let's not forget [skill]spiteful spirit[/skill].

Some Elites are crap. Some are good. Just pick the good ones.

kthxbai.

Are you suggesting that i would stop attacking if i take 40 dmg per shot when i am doing 100 dmg per hit?

Scrimbul · Mar 11, 2008, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ax mastery

Are you suggesting that i would stop attacking if i take 40 dmg per shot when i am doing 100 dmg per hit?

naww that couldn't be true could it?

Oh wait, no it isn't. Empathy doesn't even stop the turret rangers right now and rangers have better condition removal than most dervs or sins.

However an elite that would soften the aggressor up for a spike would make the spiker think twice about 123ing.

Hell, drop the duration on visions to 10 secs and we'd be golden, it'd be the attack skill version of Backfire.

I understand there needs to be crappy elites, but it doesn't make sense to me that Domination only has one mediocre way to control melee. It doesn't have to blind them or cause miss percentage, just cause damage. Just like Domination does. It's not as if it's shame or mistrust.

Bobby2 · Mar 11, 2008, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by ax mastery

Are you suggesting that i would stop attacking if i take 40 dmg per shot when i am doing 100 dmg per hit?

No. But it would be nonsense for a Mes to be able to COMPLETELY shut down a guy relying on attacks of any kind with but 1 skill, whether it's Elite or not.

Boogz · Mar 12, 2008, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

No. But it would be nonsense for a Mes to be able to COMPLETELY shut down a guy relying on attacks of any kind with but 1 skill, whether it's Elite or not.

mesmers shutdown casters with backfire , unless they got hex removal or they want to be hit by 100+ dmg. I don't see the problem with this being an 'empathy on steroids'.

ax mastery · Mar 12, 2008, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

No. But it would be nonsense for a Mes to be able to COMPLETELY shut down a guy relying on attacks of any kind with but 1 skill, whether it's Elite or not.

Attack SKILLZ only. In other words, it would be an indirect nerf to sins and dervs. Which i don't think is bad.

Bobby2 · Mar 12, 2008, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boogz

mesmers shutdown casters with backfire , unless they got hex removal or they want to be hit by 100+ dmg. I don't see the problem with this being an 'empathy on steroids'.

I do, however, have a problem with Backfire. Your argument is lost on me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ax mastery

Attack SKILLZ only. In other words, it would be an indirect nerf to sins and dervs. Which i don't think is bad.

Lemme get this straight - you want the professions to be nerfed? I would argue with you, but if you don't think there's enough melee hate among Mesmer skills, I don't think it would help either one of us.

I'm just going to feel good about ANet NEVER implementing this change, and leave this 'discussion' be. Hi-Yah!

Boogz · Mar 12, 2008, 03:53 PM // 15:53

mesmers got much more caster hate than melee hate , so what's your point?

buffing this wouldn't nerf professions , this would just shutdown, they could still use normal attacks , just don't use skills.

Scrimbul · Mar 13, 2008, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

I do, however, have a problem with Backfire. Your argument is lost on me.

Lemme get this straight - you want the professions to be nerfed? I would argue with you, but if you don't think there's enough melee hate among Mesmer skills, I don't think it would help either one of us.

I'm just going to feel good about ANet NEVER implementing this change, and leave this 'discussion' be. Hi-Yah!

Seeing your profession and your opinion on Backfire, your response doesn't surprise me. It's biased toward either keeping passive shutdown in the game while removing active shutdown in (at 10 seconds, 3 second casts and 20-30 second recharges, which is what Vision would have to be balanced at, it qualifies as 'active' shutdown.)

Or you are opposed to shutdown in this game entirely and thus have a beef with the mesmer class and don't understand why it's unique and/or important.

So yeah, if you have a basic problem with failing to understand that it's a simple thing to just kite for 10 seconds or less when backfire hits, then you probably don't have the insight to give input into this update.

Backfire isn't elite. Visions would be elite precisely because Empathy exists but it could have the same skillset as backfire.

Empathy, Backfire and Visions would all still be ruined by standard hex removal, these skills alone or in combination don't make the mesmer as frightening as the necromancer. Not only can you not kill the necromancer, but trying to kill ANYONE under the influence of his hexes just heals him. You're probably going to miss anyway as well.

This one just hurts really really bad and demands that melee finds a better mode of timing to spike with, which you wouldn't understand or support as an assassin.

Guess what A/N, Deadly Paradox Shocktard sin and Shadow Form sin still works the same as always and also completely bypasses this hex as I proposed it. Keeping you 123ing through even blindness till the cows come home.

Jam Jar · Mar 13, 2008, 04:51 AM // 04:51

I wouldn't agree with you. Just change VoR to a non elite skill, so it will actually have some use as anti melee. But it should still be booted up to 15 energy to match Backfire.

Also, since this will have some VoR vs. Empathy posts...

How bout Vision of Empathy

and take off Empathy.

(I'm asking a lot aren't I

)

Scrimbul · Mar 13, 2008, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jam Jar

I wouldn't agree with you. Just change VoR to a non elite skill, so it will actually have some use as anti melee. But it should still be booted up to 15 energy to match Backfire.

Also, since this will have some VoR vs. Empathy posts...

How bout Vision of Empathy

and take off Empathy.

(I'm asking a lot aren't I

)

I don't know about you but I don't remember any elites losing their elite status and dropping to non-elite in the history of GW since release from beta. Elites, with the exception of Keystone, tend to get buffed to reflect their status.

All I'm saying is making this skill only work on warriors and paragons when it's the energy-based attackers doing the bulk of the damage in all arenas right now is retarded. My suggestion fits in with Domination's theme, make attacking hurt. There is no law that says that melee should be less limited than spellcasting other than 'tards who haven't figured out what Hex Breaker, Hex Eater Signet and Purge Signet are for yet... and this would be the best way to allow turret rangers and sins in all forms to exist a little longer without killing their skillsets.

If you want to stop the skill... interrupt it? Like what you should be doing as a sin or ranger anyway? Kind of like what you can already do to Empathy even with fast cast on? Apply Broad Head Arrow + RTW or Shroud of Silence?

The fact that the mesmer isn't bringing Enchanter's or Glyph of Renewal to bring this skill should make teams as a whole jump for joy rather than bitch that 123ing got nerfed again.