Curse

urania · Mar 27, 2008, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Ha and balanced builds have a mutual-avoidance policy.

anyhow, in a nutshell, a balanced build means a build able to adapt to (almost) everything (and therefore having THE CHANCE to win in any given situation) since it is able to change its tactics bcause of the fact it usually has everything in it - spike, pressure, shutdown, defensive play, u name it.
the catch is that in order to do that one needs experienced players with good insight that can execute tactics they have come up with fast and effectively after beng faced with a certain build - problem is, there isnt many, if any, such players left in gw, let alone ha (somehow i have always associated ha with either aoe fests, spikes or some other gimmicks, rest is pretty obscure).

skarkees · Mar 27, 2008, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Why bother try to run balanced teams whe you have GVG.

HA is 8 vs 8 or courtyard or halls. In HA the main subject is to kill those 8 players and priest (if there is one). Lets not start on the capping maps cuz they suk the biggest part of HA imo

.

In GVG its 8 vs 8. In GVG the main subject is to kill the G-lord. You just cant win by only having a dmg dealin build. Your build also needs to be able to defend NPC's, split etc.

The thing is: I understand why people run un-balanced builds. They dont wanna play balanced cuz if they wanna run that they play GVG. If someone wants to play SF-spike they wanna fight 8 vs 8, so they prob wont do GVG (cuz of the splits etc) so they play HA wich has a better chance of playing 8 vs 8. Then there is the question: is it lame or not. Well thats your personal opinion. for me: I like to run balanced in both HA and GVG but somethimes i also feel like doin a SF spike or something justfor fun in HA cuz you wont lose anything like rating etc.

Thats my 20 cents ....

Horace The Great · Mar 27, 2008, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by skarkees

Why bother try to run balanced teams whe you have GVG.

HA is 8 vs 8 or courtyard or halls. In HA the main subject is to kill those 8 players and priest (if there is one). Lets not start on the capping maps cuz they suk the biggest part of HA imo

.

In GVG its 8 vs 8. In GVG the main subject is to kill the G-lord. You just cant win by only having a dmg dealin build. Your build also needs to be able to defend NPC's, split etc.

The thing is: I understand why people run un-balanced builds. They dont wanna play balanced cuz if they wanna run that they play GVG. If someone wants to play SF-spike they wanna fight 8 vs 8, so they prob wont do GVG (cuz of the splits etc) so they play HA wich has a better chance of playing 8 vs 8. Then there is the question: is it lame or not. Well thats your personal opinion. for me: I like to run balanced in both HA and GVG but somethimes i also feel like doin a SF spike or something justfor fun in HA cuz you wont lose anything like rating etc.

Thats my 20 cents ....

HA is not just kill eachother it's as well:
- Relic run
- Altar cap
- Holding

Which makes it more different then GvG.

And also, SF spike is not just 8v8 things, it can also do other things when you play it correctly. You have snares, you can speed boost the runner, you can pressure body blockers, you have monks that can split with teams, you have some support as well, SF spike is more balanced then you think. (Ofcourse it's not balanced but still)

Pyro maniac · Mar 27, 2008, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Your build isn't balanced if you can predict your skill usage for the next 5 minutes.

Kyp Jade · Mar 27, 2008, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

Your build isn't balanced if you can predict your skill usage for the next 5 minutes.

Win thread

12chars

kranius · Mar 27, 2008, 01:48 PM // 13:48

/agreed

12 chars

elektra_lucia · Apr 02, 2008, 12:34 PM // 12:34

A build that doesn't use all of one profession and caters for all the arenas objectives. A team with every profession but only built for farming UW isn't really much of a balance in my opinion.

llsektorll · Apr 02, 2008, 10:40 PM // 22:40

anything but the meta that isn't sway or neo-iway

Crunch · Apr 03, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41

balanced builds used to be 2/3 monks, a war(usually shock), a mesmer(normally esurge), an ele( with wards) and 1/2 others of choice. but that was a year or so ago so i don't kno what is going on now with assassin, rits, dervs and paras

Divinus Stella · Apr 03, 2008, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

Your build isn't balanced if you can predict your skill usage for the next 5 minutes.

You only have 8 skills on your bar, what other skills do you plan on using?

kranius · Apr 03, 2008, 08:09 AM // 08:09

you sometimes dont use skills in your bar ~~

he meant that if u are running a spike, you will more using a chain of 1-2-3, whereas if you run balanced builds, skills you will use are more "random", as they will depend on your caller choices, and/or what foes are doing...

Killed u man · Apr 03, 2008, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by kranius

you sometimes dont use skills in your bar ~~

he meant that if u are running a spike, you will more using a chain of 1-2-3, whereas if you run balanced builds, skills you will use are more "random", as they will depend on your caller choices, and/or what foes are doing...

And yet many people in this post concider Legoway Balanced?

I can predict the skills of any template in a Legoway...

Once again, balanced is something Elitists like to call themselves (Balanced Players) when they run different professions in 1 team build.

E.G.: The most cocky HA-players are the Legowayers, I often get called "ritspiker" by them.
They obviously missed the point were Legoway is nothing more than:
-> A 3-2-1 Warrior, face it, Warrior in HA is a joke
-> "2" 3-2-1 T-Space Paragons, which in fact require WAY lesser skill than ANY ritspike template. (We actually have to TARGET and heal o.0)
-> A Fire Ele/Snare: Mostly Spam for Fire Ele, Water Eles are a joke nowadays, I bodyblock better without any snares than most water eles do with them...
-> A weapon Rit, common, Put up Ashes, splinter Para's, Warmongers a Para, drop ashes, repeat. Don't even compare this to a "lame" ritspiker, because this template makes my brain want to go ZzZzZ.
-> A mesmer, probably the only template that requires skill in HA, but then again, Mesmer in HA doesn't go much further than spamming Diversion/Shame and using a shatter on the spikes eveyr now and then...
-> Monks, well most people already read my oppinion on HA monking: Find Channelball = win...

Stop trying to come up with definitions... "Balanced" is nothing more than 8 overpowered bars from different professions put into 1 team build...

Ritspike, bloodspike, rspike, ... is as lame as any other balanced build in HA nowadays... The only "outlaws" are the R/D spam builds, the Shattering Assault-2SH-Snare-build OR any other brainless button-bash build.

kranius · Apr 03, 2008, 01:29 PM // 13:29

oO i don't consider lego as balanced ~~

i usually run with 2 wars 3 eles 1 mesmer 2 monks, which is, imo "balanced"

anyways... all skills can be predicted watching fied

Killed u man · Apr 03, 2008, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by kranius

oO i don't consider lego as balanced ~~

i usually run with 2 wars 3 eles 1 mesmer 2 monks, which is, imo "balanced"

anyways... all skills can be predicted watching fied

I understand your damage needs to come from somewhere, but than again, as soon as you start screwing around with fire damage, the build, IMO!!!, falls out of the "balanced" category... (Fire Damage can also be earth ele, you get the point, brainless spamming of AoE)

Just personal opinnion tough

kranius · Apr 03, 2008, 02:13 PM // 14:13

we run two air, and one water ^^ no abuse of fire

we dont have aoe exept some water hexes + grasping earth & ward

Divinus Stella · Apr 03, 2008, 02:19 PM // 14:19

I wouldn't call legoway a pure spike, you dont even need to spike to kill people with it, ive had full runs without the warrior calling single spike and yet still wiped every team faced in about 2 min, the only time it becomes a spike build is when its run by bad people who cant pressure.

We went into HA last night after the AT using a standard balanced gvg build runner included to kill some time until the reward points were handed out and all we got the whole way through was "LAME GVG SCRUBS GO BACK TO GVG" and "LRN2PLAY GVG SCRUBS", this was coming from teams using A/D spike who complained about bsurge being imbalanced (assasins remedy?), it just seems that people will blame skill imbalances for everything when its their own playerskill thats at fault.

Kyp Jade · Apr 03, 2008, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Good players run whatever they want and win with it.

Sadly in HA, pugs never are made up of good players, and really the quality of monks in HA has gone down since last year. Sure the protting and healing vs pressure is still decent (usually), but I clearly remember last year monks being able to watch a mesmer for diversions. These days if you dont babysit your monk and interupt every single diversion in HA they cry whine moan and bitch all day, Ive taken to giving my WoH an interupt because she watches the mesmer and has no trouble getting most diversions. Problem with pugging that is most pugs require healers boon to even make red bars go up >.<. Some people cant even draw blind from a warrior. (props to your bsurge warlock, likely the only thing that kept your team up, and niether of my pugs felt they should remove blind).

I think though, that because the quality of monks has dropped so low, we see these defense balls with 4 healers. You can even immediatly tell between good legoways and bad legoways by who the mesmer messes with. if the mesmer camps your mes, then you know right away they will probably die to pressure pretty quick. The good legoways realize that monklines, specifically pug monk lines, dont watch out for each other and help keep the other monk clean in HA.

----
And no a spike team doesnt take more skill to run than a balanced or even a non-meta team like my own. Players in a spike team spike on time, and then do thier secondary jobs. Players in a balanced team have to be very flexible in what they do. Yes everyone in a build has a role, and in some builds that role is much more well defined than others. A spikers role is very specific. A warriors role is less specific, so is a fire eles.

Go kill stuff, from a balanced point of view, is much more flexible in how you use your skills to do it, than

Kill this target at precisely this time.

The thing that differentiates good players (not good teams mind you) is what they do with thier skills when told to do something. You would be suprised at the number of pug fire eles I have kicked out of my groups. Its not so easy to play as it must be borat, because too many people cant do it the way I want it done.

Lorekeeper · Apr 03, 2008, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

Ha and balanced builds have a mutual-avoidance policy.

anyhow, in a nutshell, a balanced build means a build able to adapt to (almost) everything (and therefore having THE CHANCE to win in any given situation) since it is able to change its tactics bcause of the fact it usually has everything in it - spike, pressure, shutdown, defensive play, u name it.
the catch is that in order to do that one needs experienced players with good insight that can execute tactics they have come up with fast and effectively after beng faced with a certain build - problem is, there isnt many, if any, such players left in gw, let alone ha (somehow i have always associated ha with either aoe fests, spikes or some other gimmicks, rest is pretty obscure).

oh where have you been all my life?

=)