Curse

BlackSephir · Apr 02, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiKio

The new CR manager needs to listen the communitiy, and let the intelligent fraction of players to decide and discuse the changes. Thats all.

Please, no more despotism form Anet. Let us do the things in a democratic way.

1. It's hard to decide which players are 'intelligent'.
2. If we're going for democracy then don't be surprised if AN removes PvP ~~

After all, the stupid majority rules in democracy.

RiKio · Apr 02, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

1. It's hard to decide which players are 'intelligent'.
2. If we're going for democracy then don't be surprised if AN removes PvP ~~

After all, the stupid majority rules in democracy.

1- Yes. Very hard. But not impossible. ( Now seriously, I dont know what to say)
2- If we´re going to democracy I would vote for making two separated games: Guild Wars ( PvP) and World of Guildcraft ( PvE)*
3-Epic True.

*PD: Wasnt a joke of mine. I saw it one day, reading one thread......

Div · Apr 02, 2008, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Hey guys. Keep this thread clean. If your post got deleted, it's probably stupid so don't bother reposting.

Moko- 24 posts deleted
Riotgear- 9 posts deleted
Me- 1 post deleted

Or at least do so at a time when I check forums so I can get my delete counter up. I'm slacking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

I vote for Void to replace her B).
The game would be fixed in no time then.

Not just Void, but any top player in general. It would be interesting to see some retired top players who know what they're doing work at Anet for skill balance/community stuff.

ender6 · Apr 02, 2008, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Not just Void, but any top player in general. It would be interesting to see some retired top players who know what they're doing work at Anet for skill balance/community stuff.

I agree, sort of like a Round Table of maybe ~10 players. Debating, brainstorming, voting, and passing on their recommendations to ANet. I'm sure there are at least 10 players that fit the bill.

Not sure they should be retired (though I understand there may be concerns regarding a conflict of interest) but it is sort of a catch 22 scenario. If they are active, they will have first hand experience on what needs improving, you just have to hope that they aren't suggesting changes for their sole benefit. The more players you have the more checks and balances you have.

la_cabra_de_vida · Apr 02, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

The only problem I would see to that is the players would want to change things that are in their best interest.

Divinus Stella · Apr 02, 2008, 08:11 PM // 20:11

The best players dont always know whats best for the game, i agree with having the people at anet choose an employee that plays pvp to balance the game, but i dont think allowing the players to balance the game directly is good.

Blame the Monks · Apr 02, 2008, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

The best players dont always know whats best for the game

The best players know the game best. Knowing the game best means you know what changes will fix the issue in question. Most players want the game to be competitive and fun, including top players. Accordingly, top players will do the best job of making the game competitive and fun.

I would take a vote from the top 20 guilds in the game over the masses any day. I would take a vote from the top 20 over any one individual (other than maybe ensign, who is always right), especially a guy who may or may not understand the game on a top level. Stick with those who have proven they know the game.

One of the biggest failures of GW was the devs never really seemed to realize they were sitting on a competitive gold mine. Instead, they wanted wow-lite. The PvP community screeched for years how to fix it, but a few clueless devs/pr people at anet and the ignorant masses didn't get it. We can hope they do better in GW2, but imo the devs have made the wrong decisions steadily for a long time, and my hopes are low.

Mr Fizzle · Apr 02, 2008, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Ok maybe this will sound stupid,between the flaming and high levels of sarcasm.You find posts that actully make sense on QQ and Guru and these are the posts that none of the DEVS ever seem to see.

2 weeks later skill discussed in huge thread above will be completly ignored,said skill will be nerfed into the pits of hell and more QQ goes on.

urania · Apr 02, 2008, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

The reason most PvP updates are based around GvG is that AB, TA and HB are just joke arenas, nobody takes them seriously enough to base a balance update since most of the problems in those arenas stem from the an incompetent player base.

the whole game is a joke arena now.

Van Goghs Ear · Apr 02, 2008, 08:58 PM // 20:58

IMO, anet should just do whatever ensign says.

DutchSmurf · Apr 02, 2008, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

I agree, sort of like a Round Table of maybe ~10 players. Debating, brainstorming, voting, and passing on their recommendations to ANet. I'm sure there are at least 10 players that fit the bill.

With some topics we had lately we basically already had that. A couple of people making recommendations to Anet. According to AP, that topics got passed on to the devs. It isn't about recommendations tho, it is what is done with them. There have been many great suggestions over the past years, but only a small amount of good actions. While we can be almost sure the devs did see the suggestions. Meaning that somewhere between the input and the output, something goes wrong. Giving us the following options:
a) the info got changed before reaching the devs.
b) the devs themselves changed the suggestions to something else.
Since AP says he passed on links too, option a) seems unlikely. If we believe him, that leaves us option b). Conclusion: we can debate, brainstorm, vote and pass on as much as we want, it won't have the result we want. As long as the thinking process of the Anet devs doesn't change, CR isn't going to help us.

In related news:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

For those of you who have not heard yet, I will be moving to a new role at ArenaNet. When I first heard about Gaile’s decision to step away from CR, I started thinking about my career and my future. You could say I found myself at a sort of crossroads where I could either continue on my current path of serving on the community relations team moving towards GW2, or explore new possibilities.

It has always been a dream of mine to be involved in game development. I have been a gamer since I was old enough to sit up, and ever since getting horribly addicted to the StarCraft map editor when I was a teenager, I have always been particularly interested in the development side of the industry. While community relations is a very enjoyable job (most of the time, heh) it does not really teach the skills and knowledge necessary to move into the development role I am interested in.

I spoke with Jeff Strain about my long-term goals and he told me what pretty much anyone in the industry will tell you—the best place to learn the skills and gain the knowledge needed to move into game development is the QA team. Their hands-on interaction with the pre-release game, the dev team, and the overall development process gives members of the QA team invaluable insight that directly correlates to a number of other jobs in the industry. Jeff also felt my knowledge of the game and the community would be valuable tools that would allow me to contribute a lot to the QA team. So, I’ve accepted a position on the team and will be moving there next week.

Deciding to make this change was not an easy thing to do, but taking all things into consideration, I feel it is the right decision. I am getting married this summer and, as many people do while staring down life as a family man, I have started thinking a lot about my future. Getting more directly involved with the development team now will open many doors for my career down the road. Not only that, but the irregular hours that go along with community relations have prevented me from spending as much time with my fiancé as she or I would like. With Gaile moving to a new position, I would likely have even less free time to spend with my soon-to-be wife.

I truly enjoyed serving on the Guild Wars Community Relations Team but for both my family life and my career, I feel now is a good time to move on to new things. I will still be playing practically every day like I do now, so if you ever need a guest for GvG or HA, give me a shout! Also, I will continue to handle ATS prize distribution through the conclusion of the Anniversary MAT in April.

Good Luck and Have Fun! --Andrew Patrick 17:29, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Kaon · Apr 02, 2008, 11:05 PM // 23:05

This whole thread went offtopic into another boring skillbalance debate. Gay.

llsektorll · Apr 02, 2008, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by l Teh Mighty Warrior l

I don't even bother posting here anymore with anything that conflicts with what is "supposed" to be said. This will get deleted instantly, but thank god gaile is gone, she didn't do shit for pvp, hope the door hits her on the way out.

true the censorship here is quite High... im still looking for another PvP forum... after the late iQ forum...

oh yea gaile is gone?... great... maybe they can find someone who cares about the pvp players..

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

1. It's hard to decide which players are 'intelligent'.
2. If we're going for democracy then don't be surprised if AN removes PvP ~~

After all, the stupid majority rules in democracy.

and that mentality is exactly why women could not vote till the 20th century...

they should have a voting system that would help bring the community together and get people more interested in the game

Kaon · Apr 02, 2008, 11:19 PM // 23:19

The majority deciding skillbalances over a vote would be the stupidest thing ever. That why it would only last for about a week.

Also, post deletion should be aimed totally at offtopicness and informationless posts. Nothing else. If a post is rough but informative then there's no point deleting it unless you're a Nazi, like Moko is. The amount of posts deleted in this topic is actually pretty epic, but you can scrap this entire page if you want.

yum · Apr 02, 2008, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by llsektorll

snip

The most popular form of "pvp" is RA. GL with the voting system.

llsektorll · Apr 02, 2008, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

The most popular form of "pvp" is RA. GL with the voting system.

thank you captain obvious.... its because there is no strategy team building... or sometimes even a brain required... just an overpowered build and lucky enough to get a decent monk...

DreamWind · Apr 03, 2008, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

One of the biggest failures of GW was the devs never really seemed to realize they were sitting on a competitive gold mine. Instead, they wanted wow-lite. The PvP community screeched for years how to fix it, but a few clueless devs/pr people at anet and the ignorant masses didn't get it. We can hope they do better in GW2, but imo the devs have made the wrong decisions steadily for a long time, and my hopes are low.

You really hit the nail on the head there. That is my biggest cry when it comes to this game.

I really like the top player roundtable discussion idea. Say you take the top numbers of players or guilds from each PvP type and have them in a roundtable chat with the devs or something along those lines. It would not have to be a vote...it could be that the most needed changes brought up repeatedly can be looked at.

yum · Apr 03, 2008, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by llsektorll

thank you captain obvious.... its because there is no strategy team building... or sometimes even a brain required... just an overpowered build and lucky enough to get a decent monk...

Reading comprehension is that HARD?.....

And voting,as well as education, is not a right but rather a privilege which you have to earn. That answers why women couldn't vote till the 20th and why those pvers should have no voice in balancing stuffs.

Riotgear · Apr 03, 2008, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by llsektorll

true the censorship here is quite High... im still looking for another PvP forum... after the late iQ forum...

Like I said, if you have an issue with moderation, PM a mod. Pretty much everything that circles the drain is a PvE-related comment, flaming, bitching, or replies to one of the previous three. Pretty much everything else stays. There's a reason that post you quoted didn't get deleted and about 4 posts in every direction of it did, for example. We're not here to force every conversation to agree with us.

Quote:

and that mentality is exactly why women could not vote till the 20th century...

... and the fact that the masses are easily manipulated, generally not interested in anything that doesn't benefit them personally, and out of tune with the way things work is the entire reason that the concept of a republic exists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

and why those pvers should have no voice in balancing stuffs.

It's more than just lack of perspective and experience, it's that:
- PvE balance can be adjusted by modifying the encounters to meet the skills, whereas PvP can't
- The addition of PvE-only skills has made the above even more true
- PvE is extremely forgiving anyway

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Also, post deletion should be aimed totally at offtopicness and informationless posts.

If you or anyone else has an issue with what's getting deleted, PM me or any other mod and I'll be glad to discuss it. This isn't the Gestapo, and practically everything that gets deleted falls into either one of those two categories or flaming anyway.

Ben-A-BoO · Apr 03, 2008, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Andrew left too