Curse

Kyp Jade · Apr 13, 2008, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Since I havent really seen any easy to run pressure builds on these forums, I thought I'd post one I've run with outstanding success, something like 150 fame in 3 days of playing it, which is a lot considering I only play for a few hours a day these past few days. I've actually ran this slightly different, but the smiter I ran in place of the pblock mes I really didnt feel gave me the damage I wanted from him.

[build prof=W/E name="Warrior" Str=9+1 Axe=12+2 Ear=9][Eviscerate][Executioners Strike][Disrupting Chop][Bulls Strike][Ward Against Foes][Rush][Frenzy][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[build prof=W/E name="Warrior" Str=9+1 Axe=12+2 Ear=9][Eviscerate][Executioners Strike][Disrupting Chop][Bulls Strike][Ward Against Foes][Rush][Frenzy][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[build prof=P/Ri name="Paragon One" Lea=11+1 Spe=11+3 Command=8+1][Spear of Lightning][Vicious Attack][Go For The Eyes][Make Haste][Defensive Anthem][Song of Concentration][Aggressive Refrain][Signet of Return][/build]
[build prof=P/Ri name="Paragon Two" Lea=10+2 Spe=10+3 Command=8+1 Res=8][Spear of Lightning][Vicious Attack][Go For The Eyes][Weapon of Warding][Defensive Anthem][Anthem of Flame][Aggressive Refrain][Death Pact Signet][/build]
[build prof=Me/Ne name="Mesmer One" Fas=8+1 Ins=10+1 Dom=12+2 Cur=2][Diversion][Shame][Psychic Distraction][Power Drain][Cry of Frustration][Rend Enchantments][Mirror of Disenchantment][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[build prof=Me/Ne name="Mesmer Two" Fas=8+1 Ins=10+1 Dom=12+2 Cur=2][Diversion][Shame][Power Block][Power Drain][Blackout][Rip Enchantment][Inspired Enchantment][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[build prof=Mo/Me name="RC Prot" Div=10+1 Pro=12+2 Ins=8][Reversal of Fortune][Guardian][Restore Condition][Spirit Bond][Shield of Absorption][Aura of Stability][Holy Veil][Channeling][/build]
[build prof=Mo/Me name="WoH/Infuse" Div=11+1 Hea=12+2 Pro=2 Ins=6][Dwaynas Kiss][Word of Healing][Draw Conditions][Infuse Health][Heal Party][Cure Hex][Holy Veil][Channeling][/build]

Obviously the dual ward foes and the weapon of warding are for HoH holding considerations, if you decide to run this with less experienced players and dont really plan on making it all the way to halls, remove the wards for shock, and then weapon of warding for a paragon skill.

Running dual mesmers comes from a recent meta change in the balanced builds. Mostly a rainbow spike with 3 defensive elementalists. They have a air ele, a water ele, and an earth ele. Since Most of my pressure is from warriors, thats problematic. I cannot expect a single mesmer to do anything to that amount of defense, AND still have time/energy to mess with monks.

Your mesmers obviously need to communicate if they are floating around on targets, but if you decide one mesmer does this role and one mesmer does another, thats a call you need to base on your own experience and the current circumstances.

Dual Paragons comes both from the ease for one warrior to call pressure and target switches, and the sway meta. Cant rend touch DA. Also paragons are superb at killing trappers, not just wanding them.

Niether of your warriors can be bad, and I also suggest this for the paragons in the team, but before you attempt to run a pressure build, please read.
http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3484
Yes its a gvg article, but it still applies to HA, kill shit.
**mods if Its against rules to post link, please delete, but It would be great if that could be somewhere on guru**

Basic tips for running this build.
DO NOT 3-2-1, in fact, the best way to run this build, is to have one warrior call targets for the two paragons, and the other warrior do his own damage, and call low targets when he gets someone low. The reason for having two warriors is quite obvious, it really pisses off the prot monk when there are two hard to follow melee characters around. One he can follow if hes really good (im assuming you read the article I posted a link to and attempted to learn from it), but never two.

DO NOT 3-2-1, do big damage, dont try to spike, you are attacking the healers energy pools, play that way, dont leave the job solely to the mesmer(s), attacking the monks energy is the best way to win in pressure builds.

DO NOT 3-2-1, you will get more kills from bulls-evis-exec than you will trying to spike with all four people. Not to mention you have to wait for both warriors adrenaline if you want to spike.

Also yell at your paragons when they target switch too slow, you switch targets because of prot or because you want to put pressure on the healer by leaving a target at half health. Remember death is not as important in HA as it is in GvG, in HA teams carry multiple hard reses. In HA you want to kill several people at a time with pressure builds, or kill in quick succession. Plus if you switch targets because of prot, your paragons are throwing thier DPS into a protted target, worst case if they trigger spirit bond and actually heal the guy!!!

Finally DONT 3-2-1

If you find somewhat decent warriors, you can laugh at how bad Healers Boon monks keep up with pressure in 2 monk backlines.

yakuza · Apr 13, 2008, 10:21 AM // 10:21

hehe gonna try it out, seems good...and tbh every1 loves seeing monks in pain

borkbork · Apr 13, 2008, 10:27 AM // 10:27

This is a great build - there's nothing like seeing crap HA monks fumbling and not protting anything you're dumping adrenaline on.

One note I want to stress - GOD DAMN KNOCK OUT THE DAs on the opposing side. It's really piss poor mesmering if you miss DAs consistently. Lag is not an excuse. Knock out those DAs and teams will wipe.

Thanks Kyp for all the fun.

Kyp Jade · Apr 13, 2008, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Yup, DA, aegis, Bsurge, water hexes, and wards are all things that made me consider bringing a ranger. However rangers are pretty crap in HA because of lots of things. Maybe if I had someone REALLY good at ranger Id put in a magebane or crip shot instead of the pd mes. But really a ranger cant do anything about bsurge etc. That would require both of my rear-midline to float around and communicate a LOT more than I could except of pugs.

Also rip on the pblock is a meta choice, I realize nobody likes that skill, but it has the same recharge as healers boon, if teams stop running booners Id probably put shatter in.

TheHaxor · Apr 14, 2008, 03:22 AM // 03:22

I'm not so sure about bringing the dual copies of shame. You could drop it on one of the mesmers and move all the necro skills onto one guy, which would enable you to free up a secondary or at the least allow you to take some other skill within the constraints of Me/N. I would consider giving all the single target enchant rips to one guy to prevent overlap as much as possible. This is more than possible since they are all low energy rips.

Kyp Jade · Apr 15, 2008, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Yup, im pro, thats why I play balanced and you play spikes. You know, I remember flawlessing you in under two minutes that night you were in a balanced team, except I was running a joke build with apply poison warriors. Or that other night you ran paraway, and I could outpressure your 6 paragons with my 3 paragons plus a warrrior. Anyone can beat anyone, if you beating me with mystic of wrath spike is important to you, then lol.

I really dont care to call you out on these things, but leave me alone, and Ill leave you alone. I dont need the drama as much as you do. This thread is here because 1 in 50 teams play pressure builds, and more than likely because theyve no idea how to run them, or how to make them. This one is a bit harder than others because it requires two midline mesmers that can chat with eachother, but thats besides the point, they can easily swap a mesmer out for a fire ele or a smiter.

Difference between pressure builds and spiking builds, is that in pressure builds you have 100x more flexibility in what you take in than you do in spike builds. You are looking for sustainable damage instead of burst damage, which is easier to do, but harder to run and communicate.

Oh and dont call ward harm, or any other ward for that matter.

1) If you are calling ward harm, expecting the monks to move into it, your placement is bad, you should be looking for advantageous spots to place the ward, not putting it down where you happen to be when it recharges.

2) THey arent listening for you anyway, they are probably pretty busy already and paying more attention to doing thier job, than helping you do yours.

3) Ward Harm, or any ward for that matter isnt meant to be camped in. Wards are pressure relief for when you need them. In the case of ward harm, thats against teams with fire aoe. Balling up in hard harm is still just as fail as balling up outside ward harm. Same with ward v melee, balling up in ward melee against sway is fail. Now thier scythe attacks that hit not only are doing autoattack dps because your not kiting. But they are also probably getting loads of splinter damage off when it happens.
Wards are for kiting through, not camping in.

hurric · Apr 15, 2008, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Maybe i'll try this. How important is the wards on the warriors? and why not replace the 2nd mes with tainted necro warder or fire ele.

Tearz1993 · Apr 15, 2008, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurric

Maybe i'll try this. How important is the wards on the warriors? and why not replace the 2nd mes with tainted necro warder or fire ele.

If the mesmers do their jobs right (both individually and working together) two mesmers generate a LOT more pressure than a tainted or fire ele. Also, it isn't a degen based pressure so the tainted and fire ele wouldn't be as efficient as they could be anyways.

YoNkErS 2k5 · Apr 15, 2008, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

Yup, im pro, thats why I play balanced and you play spikes. You know, I remember flawlessing you in under two minutes that night you were in a balanced team, except I was running a joke build with apply poison warriors. Or that other night you ran paraway, and I could outpressure your 6 paragons with my 3 paragons plus a warrrior. Anyone can beat anyone, if you beating me with mystic of wrath spike is important to you, then lol.

I really dont care to call you out on these things, but leave me alone, and Ill leave you alone. I dont need the drama as much as you do. This thread is here because 1 in 50 teams play pressure builds, and more than likely because theyve no idea how to run them, or how to make them. This one is a bit harder than others because it requires two midline mesmers that can chat with eachother, but thats besides the point, they can easily swap a mesmer out for a fire ele or a smiter.

Difference between pressure builds and spiking builds, is that in pressure builds you have 100x more flexibility in what you take in than you do in spike builds. You are looking for sustainable damage instead of burst damage, which is easier to do, but harder to run and communicate.

Oh and dont call ward harm, or any other ward for that matter.

1) If you are calling ward harm, expecting the monks to move into it, your placement is bad, you should be looking for advantageous spots to place the ward, not putting it down where you happen to be when it recharges.

2) THey arent listening for you anyway, they are probably pretty busy already and paying more attention to doing thier job, than helping you do yours.

3) Ward Harm, or any ward for that matter isnt meant to be camped in. Wards are pressure relief for when you need them. In the case of ward harm, thats against teams with fire aoe. Balling up in hard harm is still just as fail as balling up outside ward harm. Same with ward v melee, balling up in ward melee against sway is fail. Now thier scythe attacks that hit not only are doing autoattack dps because your not kiting. But they are also probably getting loads of splinter damage off when it happens.
Wards are for kiting through, not camping in.

lawl. let's start with these 2 "flawless" matches you speak of.

1. both of these matches were 7/8 pugs, you feel accomplished becasue you beat a r6 pug team with r8/9/10 players? you have 0 life and play gw all day, you should know, your're only as good as your team is. one person fails in HA, the entire team fails. i cannot justify one persons' failure because in reality, i just wanted to have fun. which is why i run r6/r7 pug teams for fun, and play r11+'s when im serious. most impressive for me, a r7, to get into r10/r11 groups, eh? hmm.
2. as for apply poison wars, i have no idea what that is, i have never played anyone that used that in HA.
3. beating anyone with mystic wrath spike is not important to me, it is amusing to me. how you lose to a spike that is dependent on enchantments when your're team build contains a mirror of disenchantment mesmer baffles me. that's not important, that's just hysterical.
4. were you watching halls replay last night? altars' balance? i don't think we were running a spike build....
5. let's discuss this ward harm debacle, because i find it most amusing.
- you do not call ward harm expecting the monks to move into it. ward harm is strategically placed, depending on if the monks are running channeling, (which most do), in an area most saturated with foes for channel tanking. monks should already be in the same vicinity, if not somewhere near the area already, they shouldnt have to "move" anywhere. the ward harm and the monks should be looking for the same positions on the map.
- they shoudn't be listening to you to begin with.
- if you camp harm, you should uninstall the game. once i was wirth r9/r10 team, r10 snare, puts ward harm in choke. (this is why rank means nothing, people). when you pull moves like that, you are a waste of my oxygen. ward harm is not meant for any profession BUT monk, due to soft armor rating, depending on team build, it is all dependent on the way the team is arranged. harm is for soft targets, and allows monks to kite through while channel tanking.

In conclucison, I don't run spikes normally, and i have pugged for someone that does? I've shatterstone snared for them? hmmm. do not throw stones at glass houses my friend. and do not try to impress random people on a forum with information that should already be known.

Kyp Jade · Apr 15, 2008, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoNkErS 2k5

lawl. let's start with these 2 "flawless" matches you speak of.

1. both of these matches were 7/8 pugs, you feel accomplished becasue you beat a r6 pug team with r8/9/10 players? you have 0 life and play gw all day, you should know, your're only as good as your team is. one person fails in HA, the entire team fails. i cannot justify one persons' failure because in reality, i just wanted to have fun. which is why i run r6/r7 pug teams for fun, and play r11+'s when im serious. most impressive for me, a r7, to get into r10/r11 groups, eh? hmm.
2. as for apply poison wars, i have no idea what that is, i have never played anyone that used that in HA.
3. beating anyone with mystic wrath spike is not important to me, it is amusing to me. how you lose to a spike that is dependent on enchantments when your're team build contains a mirror of disenchantment mesmer baffles me. that's not important, that's just hysterical.
4. were you watching halls replay last night? altars' balance? i don't think we were running a spike build....
5. let's discuss this ward harm debacle, because i find it most amusing.
- you do not call ward harm expecting the monks to move into it. ward harm is strategically placed, depending on if the monks are running channeling, (which most do), in an area most saturated with foes for channel tanking. monks should already be in the same vicinity, if not somewhere near the area already, they shouldnt have to "move" anywhere. the ward harm and the monks should be looking for the same positions on the map.
- they shoudn't be listening to you to begin with.
- if you camp harm, you should uninstall the game. once i was wirth r9/r10 team, r10 snare, puts ward harm in choke. (this is why rank means nothing, people). when you pull moves like that, you are a waste of my oxygen. ward harm is not meant for any profession BUT monk, due to soft armor rating, depending on team build, it is all dependent on the way the team is arranged. harm is for soft targets, and allows monks to kite through while channel tanking.

In conclucison, I don't run spikes normally, and i have pugged for someone that does? I've shatterstone snared for them? hmmm. do not throw stones at glass houses my friend. and do not try to impress random people on a forum with information that should already be known.

So, you go to tell me that those wins against you were nothing because they were pug teams, and then move further to brag about a win with a signet of mystic wrath spike against a Physical Pressure build that you have every counter in the game for. Just becase I've kicked you from my groups you think your amazing. OK youve proved you can build wars, congrats.

And that bit about ward harm being placed strategically is just what I said the first time, and exactly opposite of what you said when I argued with you over calling it. Make up your mind. Wards are for kiting through, not camping in. And calling retarded stuff like a ward is stupid anyway. Vent is for stuff that needs communicated, like what mesmer is on who, low target here, spike incomming etc. Not OMFG I placed a ward over here come camp in it.

Vent should sound like
War1: Target (ctrl ping)
War1: Target (ctrl ping)
Mes2: Diverted Bsurge
War1: Target (ctrl ping)
War1: Target (ctrl ping)
Mes1: On 8 (ctrl ping)
Mes2: On 7 (ctrl ping)
War1: Target (ctrl ping)
Paragon2: DA interupted
War1: Target (ctrl ping)
Monk1: Shame me
War2: Low here (ctrl ping)
War1: Target (ctrl ping)
War1: Target (ctrl ping)
Monk1: Blackout me
Mes1: Pblocked Healer
Mes2: Shame 7
War1: Target (ctrl ping)
War2: *has orgasm* OMG LOOK ALL THESE GUYS ARE LOW!! (ctrl ping)
..
..
..
..
and so on

Notice how only info that needs to be communicated happens.
The damage dealing midline listen for the warriors calls and adjust accordingly.
The mesmers talk to each other, and the frontline listens in as well to what the mesmers are doing.
The monks talk to only each other. If one monk is shamed the other monk needs to be ready.

Notice how the midline, in the case of this build, the paragons. Have no real voice. Its the job of the midline to communicate problems they have doing thier job. Thats it. Anything else gets in the way of an already cluttered channel. In fact things generally are a lot faster and more hectic than that. Nobody needs to hear the midline. Wards are no exception

Finally, your the one trying to impress people by attacking me on this forum, get over it, its just a game. Grow up, stop ganking me, telling your friends to gank me, and stop attacking me on this forum.

Dont derail this thread further

-----
Also @ Tearz, your right about not using a tainted of fire ele in this type of pressure build. Plus both are terrible against sways. Sways have all kinds of condition remove to coutner taint, and also have the item spell that is aoe condition remove

. Sway is the reason I dont play conditon pressure atm lol. And fire eles are just bad against a team with 5 rangers.

However, if you want to remove a mesmer for more damage, a rit smiter is the best way to go. Strength and Honor, Judges, Splinter = loldamage warriors. The two mesmers are just there because of the tankbuilds people are playing atm.

Generally the bar I run in place of the powerblock if I dont have mesmers that can work together.

[build prof=Ri/Mo name="Rit Smiter" Spa=2 Cha=12+2 Res=8+1 Smi=10][Splinter Weapon][Ancestors Rage][Weapon of Warding][Judges Insight][Offering of Spirit][Strength of Honor][Smite Hex][Death Pact Signet][/build]

And then adjust the paragon bars accordingly. You only need 1 dpact and 1 sig return, and no warding in the paragon.

kranius · Apr 16, 2008, 09:23 AM // 09:23

i'd rather smite both paragons, so wars can still deal 59dmg with a critical hit, which doesn't trigger SB

Against balanced just stick both paras smited against both monks, and watch them cry.

TheHaxor · Apr 16, 2008, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by kranius

i'd rather smite both paragons, so wars can still deal 59dmg with a critical hit, which doesn't trigger SB

Against balanced just stick both paras smited against both monks, and watch them cry.

...SoH doesn't affect ranged attacks...

besides, Kyp just constantly target switches so SB isn't a problem

kranius · Apr 17, 2008, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

...SoH doesn't affect ranged attacks...

my bad

12chars

Insane Warrior · Apr 17, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

just a thought-I know P Block is good put a possiblitly if you wanna free up the wars is to run a GoR Mez and throw ward against foes on him. This would allow wars to put shock on bar. Not really sure if it is worth the upside cause I havnt had time to run either version yet and im just kind of thinking out loud.

Also...you could really screw with a monk or n/rt with three copies of diversion lawl

Chaos Rofl Copter · Apr 17, 2008, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insane Warrior

just a thought-I know P Block is good put a possiblitly if you wanna free up the wars is to run a GoR Mez and throw ward against foes on him. This would allow wars to put shock on bar. Not really sure if it is worth the upside cause I havnt had time to run either version yet and im just kind of thinking out loud.

Also...you could really screw with a monk or n/rt with three copies of diversion lawl

how exactly 3 copies of diversion....?

Insane Warrior · Apr 17, 2008, 07:31 PM // 19:31

1 on pd and GoR the diversion on the other mez...so its not exactly 3 copies of diversion....but close enough

wuzzman · Apr 18, 2008, 12:46 AM // 00:46

didn't know people still ran builds like this. As you can see Kype Jade = Post by his balls, not his epeen.

Chaos Rofl Copter · Apr 18, 2008, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

didn't know people still ran builds like this. As you can see Kype Jade = Post by his balls, not his epeen.

people run pressure builds, its just that you dont see it often because of the following:

-pressure builds take more skill, but in the end are much more effective when you have good players because they can be extremely flexible.
-a majority of people only know how to do 3,2,1
-in this build you need people to communicate, as stated by kyp above. in spike builds, usually only the caller is talking 90% of the time.
-you cant have stupid snares
-you cant have people who smash buttons all at once on one target the entire game(except paras, gotta spear them trappers

)

(if i just repeated everything up there, ups im bad, so yeah, dellete post if i did

)

Killed u man · Apr 18, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos Rofl Copter

people run pressure builds, its just that you dont see it often because of the following:

-pressure builds take more skill, but in the end are much more effective when you have good players because they can be extremely flexible.
-a majority of people only know how to do 3,2,1
-in this build you need people to communicate, as stated by kyp above. in spike builds, usually only the caller is talking 90% of the time.
-you cant have stupid snares
-you cant have people who smash buttons all at once on one target the entire game(except paras, gotta spear them trappers

)

(if i just repeated everything up there, ups im bad, so yeah, dellete post if i did

)

HoH mechanics:

Spike > Pressure

Bottom line

Chaos Rofl Copter · Apr 19, 2008, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

HoH mechanics:

Spike > Pressure

Bottom line

wrong, as long as you have a good monk backline

pressure > spike

ALWAYS.

edit: need a good midline too =/