Curse

ManiSan · Apr 18, 2008, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Splinter weap: I can see why the nerf was needed. I can see that my rit will stay on Balthazar islands forever now.
Ancestor rage. So, this skill has to be easely interupted ? Oh.

Rit was one of my favorite class. Now, if my job is to drop items and cast restau weaps, i just give up. For my ele ?

But!
Blinding surge. Severely hit. Too bad, i was planning to organize a DoA raid using a gvg build. This skill is now useless in PvE.

*sigh*

edit: Lordhelmos, do you figure that there are players that play both PvP and PvE, and good PvE players that dont enjoy smashing 3 buttons ? Bsurge wasnt overpowered at all, from a PvE point of view, and now it is no more effective. Thats bad because PvE, as i see it, is good to learn game mechanics, players shouldnt be told about blindness only when they come in PvP... Not to mention the fun to beat a hard area using "true" builds.
For your statement about turtling matches waiting for VoD, i totally agree, that is in the line of last month update. The one that pissed me so much I gave up GvG. NPC in PvP fail grrr

Lordhelmos · Apr 18, 2008, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManiSan

Splinter weap: I can see why the nerf was needed. I can see that my rit will stay on Balthazar islands forever now.
Ancestor rage. So, this skill has to be easely interupted ? Oh.

Rit was one of my favorite class. Now, if my job is to drop items and cast restau weaps, i just give up. For my ele ?

But!
Blinding surge. Severely hit. Too bad, i was planning to organize a DoA raid using a gvg build. This skill is now useless in PvE.

*sigh*

edit: Lordhelmos, do you figure that there are players that play both PvP and PvE, and good PvE players that dont enjoy smashing 3 buttons ? Bsurge wasnt overpowered at all, from a PvE point of view, and now it is no more effective. Thats bad because PvE, as i see it, is good to learn game mechanics, players shouldnt be told about blindness only when they come in PvP... Not to mention the fun to beat a hard area using "true" builds.
For your statement about turtling matches waiting for VoD, i totally agree, that is in the line of last month update. The one that pissed me so much I gave up GvG. NPC in PvP fail grrr

~

Actually Mani what I was getting at is that Anet is telling us that they don't want to hurt PvE balance. I was basically saying that statement is a crock of crap because the existence of Ursan. Yes they are many many many people out there who are experienced pver's and don't like to go around and smash 3 skills all day just to clear a zone. But the sad truth of it is, the majority of pugs, and those trying to clear hardmode areas are completely dependent on Ursanway in order to progress through the game. It's the people who are fed up with parties that are fueled by R10 Norn titles, consumables, and button mashing like myself that complain about these sort of issues.

You should know how difficult it is to get a non Ursan HM party without a good guild or rather large friends list, and then some of them still might want to rely on Ursan. Yes there are players out there who can get through the game in HM without it, but the majorty of the players in the game are completely reliant on the stupid skill because its easy.

What I am saying is not that there aren't good pvers. But there are good pvers that are completely fed up with this UB bullshit. That the entire game in PvE was just plopped on an axis of "pve balance" that is governed by Ursan Strike and Ursan Rage. And Anet has the nerve to come up to us and say:

"We don't want to have future nerfs that will disturb PvE balance"

What the hell? It doesn't matter what you nerf for PvE balance because the majority of the community isn't going to feel a pinprick of pain as long as Ursan Blessing is left untouched. Yes PvEr's that hate UB will be affected, but the majority wont.

How can Anet talk about touch PvE balance when the entire PvE game revolves around one elite PvE only skill?

If you want PvE balance to matter, then you'll have to do something about UB. Its just a retarded moot point to sit there and tell us how fragile PvE balance is when in reality, Ursan Blessing IS PVE balance. It's really bad balance. A kind of balance that gives everyone the same boring skill bar and lets them blow through any area in less than an hour.

Ursan Blessing is a kick in the face to people that actually have value for PvE balance. Yet the completely ignore it and now want to make a statement on how they don't want to disrupt the PvE balance.

Well freaking news flash: There is no such thing as PvE balance because Ursan Blessing is so retarded. Why the hell are you going to talk about how big of an impact these stupid GvG skill balances make on PvE when your not even going to acknowledge the biggest problem in PvE: Ursan.

I'm just point out dumb excuses and a weak statement. That its just BS that they can even say that balance exists in PvE and completely ignore Ursan. What the hell?

~

Its common sense that this is a problem, I'm just simply pointed out that Anet's argument that they want PvP balance to leave PvE balance unaffected makes no sense. Ursan Blessing IS PvE balance. As long as you don't touch that, whatever changes you make for skills in regards to PvP isn't really going to affect PvE much.

It's retarded to even say there is such thing as balance in PvE. UB was the factor that completely removes PvE balance by giving all the players in the game godmode.

Sure go ahead, you can nerf every single skill based on PvP. How much is it going to affect the community? Probably not much because regardless of how much skills are crapulated for PvE, there will always be Ursan. Maybe ANET wanted this way. So that they can nerf as much PvE crap as they want to and in the end it all doesn't matter because you can still just click the little bear icon on your skill bar and never die.

Just saying, trying to make any kind of argument concerning PvE balance without addressing Ursan just makes no sense. Because Ursan is the backbone of PvE right now, like it or hate it.

I'm saying that skill balances have less of an effect on the PvE community solely because of this one skill.

So what's up with ANET suddenly putting this emphasis on PvE balance? Makes no sense because there IS NO PVE BALANCE. What the heck are they talking about? PvE balance? Rofl, this statement is like an oxymoron.

If UB didn't exist then yeah maybe that might make sense, but since you already gave everyone in PvE godmode, whats the point in talking about PvE balance? No matter how much skills are nerfed for PvE, it won't stop people from making Ursan groups and crushing anything you throw at them.

DreamWind · Apr 18, 2008, 07:44 AM // 07:44

I was really going to give my opinions on the specific skills. But the part of the update that really stuns me (and should stun all of you) the most is this:

Quote:

In order to reduce the possible negative impact on PvE play, we will be reverting the changes on May 1st. For future tournaments, we aim to focus on changes that will not impact PvE play at all.

I don't think anything I type here can even express how horrific this statement is. I honestly believe this is Anet putting the final nail in the PvP coffin.

Not only have they have essentially given up all support of PvP after this monthly, but now all future changes will take PvE into consideration before PvP. If changes would effect PvE in any way, even if its for the better of the competitive product, the changes will not happen.

To me its outrageous. I could give a crap less about the skill changes. Not only are they terrible, but they are being reverted back for PVE purposes! What a sick joke!! They don't even affect PVE GOD DAMNIT!! URSAN STILL EXISTS. They affect PVP!! Seriously maybe I'm overly angry about this but I think its beyond startling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxbat

Looks like end of real money prizes will kill PvP after all...

Yep...just as I stated in the other thread about it. I just never expected it to happen this way.

Shuuda · Apr 18, 2008, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Meh, the E-Surge/Burn Buffs are the only thing that strike me as particularly cool.

Lordhelmos · Apr 18, 2008, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I was really going to give my opinions on the specific skills. But the part of the update that really stuns me (and should stun all of you) the most is this:

I don't think anything I type here can even express how horrific this statement is. I honestly believe this is Anet putting the final nail in the PvP coffin.

Not only have they have essentially given up all support of PvP after this monthly, but now all future changes will take PvE into consideration before PvP. If changes would effect PvE in any way, even if its for the better of the competitive product, the changes will not happen.

To me its outrageous. I could give a crap less about the skill changes. Not only are they terrible, but they are being reverted back for PVE purposes! What a sick joke!! They don't even affect PVE GOD DAMNIT!! URSAN STILL EXISTS. They affect PVP!! Seriously maybe I'm overly angry about this but I think its beyond startling.

Yep...just as I stated in the other thread about it. I just never expected it to happen this way.

This is the exact point I was trying to get at in bringing up Ursan Blessing. Yes this statement is the core of the problem. You sir get the Nobel Prize.

That statement alone might be enough to completely drop Guildwars 2. There has been some dumb things said on these forums concerning the state of the game, but this... this is probably one of the most incompetent announcements to ever be made by ANET.

Shuuda · Apr 18, 2008, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Should we hold a funeral for the once great game?

Lordhelmos · Apr 18, 2008, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Should we hold a funeral for the once great game?

Either that or open up a poll for what MMORPG people are going to migrate to now >.<

Div · Apr 18, 2008, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Just because the thread in Riverside got closed doesn't mean to take your QQ here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destromath

So do you think it will still work out on a profession with high Resto to compensate for the higher cast time and reuseability, or will it be limited to only Mesmers now?

High resto means nothing if you can't get it off, which is why running it on any other character besides a mesmer becomes a huge liability. That is something that's bad for the game, as it constrains character usage, where mesmers are almost forced to take rit secondary.

C2K · Apr 18, 2008, 08:21 AM // 08:21

As with any update, some things are good, some things are bad, strong but normal kind of skill balance. But why revert them if the basis is to make sure PvE solo farming builds can still work??

If anything, it should have reverts only if the skill balances are outright removing classes from any viable play in PvP. I really don't think this balance does that, time will tell over two weeks.

tigros · Apr 18, 2008, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

High resto means nothing if you can't get it off, which is why running it on any other character besides a mesmer becomes a huge liability. That is something that's bad for the game, as it constrains character usage, where mesmers are almost forced to take rit secondary.

Will we see the emergence of Me/Mo with Restore Life? This skill has now become a powerful contender for Flesh of My Flesh...

As for blockway, now that Aegis is 15 energy, the same as Defensive Anthem, will wee see the return of dual paragon midlines? (they could not only chain DA, but also SoR and BoR)

I D E L E T E D I · Apr 18, 2008, 08:54 AM // 08:54

What disgusts me the most is that Anet make all this changes NOW, for the LAST mAT. How long have skills such as Splinter/Ancestors, Ward against melee, Aegis, etc been a problem in GvG? Why does Anet feel they have to make these changes now but not 6 months ago?

And the fact they will be changing it back for PvE is just dumb.

The Update was good overall, but the Message they have sent us with it, just shows they seriously don't give a rats ass about PvP.

Genova · Apr 18, 2008, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

High resto means nothing if you can't get it off, which is why running it on any other character besides a mesmer becomes a huge liability. That is something that's bad for the game, as it constrains character usage, where mesmers are almost forced to take rit secondary.

Most mesmers take rit secondary anyways... What's more important and would be good for the game is the return of resurrection signets and the importance of getting morale boosts to recharge them. Ez-mode hard rez can never be good because it always limits character usage more than just taking a rez sig. Furthermore, battles are going to end faster once all rez sigs are gone. That's why I think you are wrong.

DutchSmurf · Apr 18, 2008, 10:26 AM // 10:26

I think Izzy once again tried to nerf defensive skills, but still didn't realize that you can't nerf a playstyle by changing skills. And the changes he did make hardly have an effect. Blinding Surge and Energy Burn/Surge are the only ones that matter I think, but both not enough to change much. Also the buffs that were made all don't make any sense at all. "We made a nice template for necros depending on conditions, so now we buff some hexes that need to stick to have effect to fit with that." I think it is save to predict that the next tournament is going to be just as boring as the last ones.

And about that statement, when reading the update notes I got the idea it was more a PvE update then anything else. The mesmer changes will make PvE players more then they effect PvP players after all. The elementalist changes hardly have an effect on PvE, so I saw no problem there. Not sure about Aegis, but I doubt that is needed in PvE, since with good positioning you can make all damage land on a limited amount of people. The only change PvE players might not like is Splinter Weapon, but that change is that minor that I doubt anyone can be really upset about it. Ancestors' Rage nerf won't be noticed in PvE.

Short summary, another wasted update.

[EDIT]Why were half of the spirits updated, but not the other half too? Like Shelter updated, but Union isn't?

Kaon · Apr 18, 2008, 01:13 PM // 13:13

IZZY I HATE YOU FOR AGAIN FORCING MIDLINES BACK TO PARAGONS, GO DIE

There, bsurge was a great skill and the only problem it had was the incredible synergy with hex breaker and concentration. It lasted only 5 seconds maximum (though mostly got removed anyway) so it was perfect for stopping spikes, something i was quite supergodly at. Now it lasts 3 seconds... What the hell is he thinking? I'd better gale him seriously. The recharge buff is quite irrelevant as you don't have the energy to spam it anyway.

This means a paragon is a MUCH better choice than ele (unless you go water ele which is nice in some situations) and i have to back to hating guild wars like i did 2 months ago. Especially with the aegis nerf paragon got even better. I will do everything to search for a different midline (like superoffensive warrior or linebacker) but paragons are supergay and encouraging people to run them is plain dumb.

Also

STOP THE RANDOM USELESS BUFFS
Every update you buff some random skill for no reason at all and it just sits there doing nothing or being overpowered and making the game worse.

This time highly conditional conditionbuff skills and dark pact. The conditionskills are only good in a very very specific situation (read: conditiongimmick) and will only harm the game if they ever get used. Dark pact is a necroskill, therefore it is gimmicky and bad for the game by nature.

The game was very close to perfect until today, only a few tweaks to hex breaker and concentration or woh+guardian would've been fine, and not even supernecessary. Instead AGAIN you decide to change the entire game, and again you've managed to make the game worse... again...! This is like the 8th time it happens, it makes me want to go emo panda.

Divinus Stella · Apr 18, 2008, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Since they are making temporary changes perhaps they should ether renewal all shadow steps until the monthly is over, it would kill any chance of an asian guild winning so the finals wouldnt be plagued by jap lag.

valence · Apr 18, 2008, 02:42 PM // 14:42

If you want to hit Bsurge i would like to see Glyph die.

I dont get one thing tho, if you dont want to affect pve, why not make a list of skills that CANNOT be used in specific arenas.

Zuranthium · Apr 18, 2008, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Midlines haven't been forced back to Paragons at all, Kaon. Not sure why you think they are overpowered atm. I'd rather run 3 Wars, Ranger, Mes.

I like(d) this update mainly for the Aegis nerf. FINALLY. Too bad it's temporary. Ugh. I so hope they keep it like that. *pray*

~Z

JR · Apr 18, 2008, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

Since they are making temporary changes perhaps they should ether renewal all shadow steps until the monthly is over, it would kill any chance of an asian guild winning so the finals wouldnt be plagued by jap lag.

Exactly my thoughts. If you are going to do a 2 week only balance mix up then at least do something really significant. It makes no sense otherwise.

DutchSmurf · Apr 18, 2008, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Exactly my thoughts. If you are going to do a 2 week only balance mix up then at least do something really significant. It makes no sense otherwise.

Completely agree here. If you do a temporarily balance, then at least make it a good one. A good game for 2 weeks is better then no good game at all.

Splitisoda · Apr 18, 2008, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Good Job Anet.

Looks like they hit the skills good this time, and the right ones.