Curse

Kyp Jade · Apr 09, 2008, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

This is exactly why forums are probably the worst place ever to discuss balance and expect any changes...theres too many idiots. Hell, a lot of people on this forum even said the N/A cultists fervor build wasn't "neccessarily overpowered", and I basically slapped my hand against my head and wondered why I still read this garbage.

Unfortunatly, those idiots that claim things like N/A cultists build wasnt OP, are able to put thier arguments in a clear and concise post. Very readable, very understandable.

Not that arguments over the internets mean anything really, but oftentimes they win the debate simply by being more understood than people who have actual understanding of the game.

qvtkc · Apr 09, 2008, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

I own you all @

(...)

ut99, 2003, 2004, 2007

No you don't.

Killed u man · Apr 09, 2008, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse

/agree..........

Can we please stop the 'Get a friend to defend me'-strategy?

Like, why is it necessary to type /agree to a quote that is spam in the first place?

Can we also stick to Rspike. If you don't think Para's are broken, that's fine save it for another thread... Can we also stop with the off-topic-ness? (Specificly to people from DoD and other people related to those HA teams)

EDIT: After some time alone with the numbers, I think simply adding the "No Weapon Spell" to Forked Arrow and Dual Shot. (They should have been copies since day 1 NF anyways) will proof sufficent to nerf Rspike into such a degree it's actually beatable...
Like most people said: The Sloth Hunter's shot is strong, BUT you can actually stay alive if you have the right counters. I would settle with just a nerf on Forked Arrow and Dual Shot. These skills don't see play in ANY format or build besides Rspike itself, so I wouldn't hurt GvG, RA, TA, HB, HA (Other builds) OR even PvE. Hitting those 2 skills will do the job perfectly

Jesse · Apr 09, 2008, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Why do you keep pushing for nerfs borat? Thats all your posts have been. Nerf this and nerf that. Why cant you figure out a way in game to counter it with the skills that you already have and stop this discussion on skills that you and mainly you want (not need) to be nerfed. It seems to me that you cant beat it and because of this you are asking for nerfs and drastic skill changes. The time you spent on this forum QQing (see how leet i am, i make letters look like crying eyes) about supposed needed nerfs you should be in game trying different ways of countering R spike or training some lazy prot out there to play better and catch spikes.

EDIT: Chaos wasnt spamming but rather reinstating something that apparently still has gotten through...thats my opinion...you can flame me all you want but guess what...I DONT REALLY CARE

its the internet and i am loling at this whole thing

Lorekeeper · Apr 09, 2008, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Well after some consideration here is my wishlist of skill updates for the game.

Escape - ends if you hit with a melee attack. OR if your health goes under 50% this stance ends.
Rending Touch - you and target touched foe lose an enchantment, if you do not lose an enchantment you lose an additional 5 energy.

Hex Breaker - revert to stance (fixes bsurge E/Mes in GvG stacking hex breaker with mantra of concentration which is a bigger problem than R/Mes in HA)

Savannah Heat - increase cost to 10e. (token update)

Wounding Strike - increase cost to 10e or recharge to 6s. (spammable crip slash without need for adrenaline and only requires an enchant... yeah right!)
Way of the Master - increase cost to 10e, increase cast time to 1s.
Dark Apostasy - increase recharge to 20s. (enchant removal for dummies)
Shadow Walk - increase recharge to 45s or increase energy cost to 10e.

Sundering Weapon - works for next 1 attack.
Glass Arrows - increase cost to 10e.
Rend Enchantments - increased cast time to 2s. (enchant removal for dummies)
Rigor Mortis - increased cast time to 2s.

''Shields Up!'' - reduce recharge to 25s or even 20s. (helps a little more at VoD).

Weapon of Warding - remove regeneration bonus, block chance scales with restoration (40% at 12 resto, 50% at 14 resto), now provides small armour buff. (Retains effectiveness on rit primaries just less effective on rit secondaries unless using high spec). - basically non-elite weapon equivalent of SoD. (Potentially too good on rit flaggers in GvG! Not sure how to change this skill without it being too bad or too good)

Vital Weapon - increase recharge to 10s

Difficult in balancing HA is that you might not know of any potential gimmicks still waiting to be discovered (like escape scythe rangers haha who would have thought!).

Ill post these updates for current gimmicks and think about any potential issues when i have time.

If anyone thinks these changes are adverse to the game as a whole, please explain why.

Divinus Stella · Apr 09, 2008, 02:45 PM // 14:45

People dont use hex breaker and concentration anymore, it wouldnt hurt a GvG bsurge bar at all.

Most of those changes are pointless, if all your trying to do is nerf ranger spike then hit the dual/forked attacks, i dont think anyone who plays pve will care since you have skills like tripple shot which are better.

I think when we see the balance changes around next week itll just sort out shadow stepping, i doubt they care about anything run in HA.

Lorekeeper · Apr 09, 2008, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

People dont use hex breaker and concentration anymore, it wouldnt hurt a GvG bsurge bar at all.

Most of those changes are pointless, if all your trying to do is nerf ranger spike then hit the dual/forked attacks, i dont think anyone who plays pve will care since you have skills like tripple shot which are better.

I think when we see the balance changes around next week itll just sort out shadow stepping, i doubt they care about anything run in HA.

i fail to see how all those changes i included are solely related to rspike nerfs. I never said i wanted to nerf rspike. Im not aiming to drastically change things in HA. I think the hit to R/D is strong. And i think the hits to A/D will have a subtle but noticeable effect. Im not someone to suggest drastic swings in skills so if youre looking for 'izzy' like changes then we will just have to wait and see what happens this week or next.

I see plenty of people running hexbreaker and conc... doesnt matter whether they do or not anyway, the possibility of the combination is something i dont think should exist. Hex breaker buff was made in lieu of the sineptitude rubbish, another strange solution that was unnecessary with other much more effective nerfs to that build. If only to correct past mistakes that change should be reverted.

I too dont expect much to be done for HA, doesnt stop me or anyone else trying.

Divinus Stella · Apr 09, 2008, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Well perhaps a thread titled "Rspike (Suggestions)" is the wrong place to voice concerns about HA in general, i do agree something needs to be done in HA, id like that to be in the form of map changes rather than a skill overhaul otherwise people will just find other pure spike builds with no utility.

Lorekeeper · Apr 09, 2008, 03:42 PM // 15:42

point conceded, just hijacking the thread

Ate of DK · Apr 10, 2008, 01:34 AM // 01:34

This is one of the funiest threads I've ever seen. I don't see ranger spikes in Halls all day.

Killed u man · Apr 10, 2008, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

This is one of the funiest threads I've ever seen. I don't see ranger spikes in Halls all day.

Please condtribute to the thread, or don't post.
Don't make random claims, unless you can proove them correct...

Rspike is in HoH ALL day, people are pugging it more and more AND all night Rspike holds. (Or the A/D one)

Ate of DK · Apr 10, 2008, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Please condtribute to the thread, or don't post.
Don't make random claims, unless you can proove them correct...

Rspike is in HoH ALL day, people are pugging it more and more AND all night Rspike holds. (Or the A/D one)

I did contribute to this thread.

You claim you see many ranger spikes. Which is your observation.
I say that I don't see that many ranger spikes, which is my observation.
Which we both can't prove correct if you want to go that way.

I see much more A/D builds and R/D builds. Just played 4 hours of HA and didn't face a single ranger spike. But a hell of a lot R/D and A/D.

Anyway, the A/D and R/D aside, to stay on topic. Comming to my final conclusion that there are far less ranger spikes than you want to make us believe.

Not to mention all the counters against it. But that's something else.

Ciric · Apr 10, 2008, 01:35 PM // 13:35

R-Spike does not hold ALL day. A decent r-spike may get to halls (what’s wrong with that) and they may win 1-2 depending on the map rotation. King of the hill favors r-spike, while relics are fairly neutral for every build (who doesn't have speed buffed runners and at least 1 snarer) and cap points is totally anti r-spike. If a r-spike ever wins caps its because the other teams are a: extremely stupid and only play a 2 point game letting r-spike split them, yes i said r-spike splitting, it can happen if the other team is bad and doesn't realize how to split at all. And r-spike should almost NEVER win 1v1 halls, it cant split for cap points, it has inferior running capability (either your damage runs or your defense), and it can get out pressured easily, after that weapon of warding on your ghost and GG. However r/spike 'Holds' just as much as a/d spike, r/d, and balance.

*thinks about flaming dumb people in this thread*

On a side note, last night we, [DoD] (ok we wern't DoD last night due to one member not being there and us taking a old Mojo friend who hasn't played in months), beat about 9-10 (we were playing from 4pm-10pm est. off and on) of these OBIVION spikes including Cleo's (the second best r-spike contrary to borats genius that only r-spikes full of r12+ are the best) running a simple dual war pressure build with no off monk defense besides from a weapon of warding. We even beat those legendary r3+ pug r-spikes that you can't beat. How? We know how to pressure, and our prot knows how to watch bows spin around, aim at a target, and shoot pretty arrows towards it. We also have the minimal brain power required to know that you should kill fav winds (ZOMG you can dodge their spike now!) and we know how to play a non-two point game. In fact the only r-spike we lost to was Cleo's in halls on a alter cap because the other team resigned around 1:30 after cleo capped again and we couldn't manage to kill cleo's team in 30 seconds (don't even say r-spike has to much defense, no good team gets wiped in 30 seconds). The simple fact is r-spike wins because with the exception of hexes and r/d, halls is a spike meta, even your 'balanced' builds like lego way are largely spike. Ranger spike beast all other spikes because it spikes faster, not harder, faster. it actually lacks a lot of off monk defense besides from the ability to kill shit a lot, hence why you can stop 1-2 spikes and then pressure them out.)

Now here’s a lesson you apparently haven’t learned. R-Spike> A/d Spike, and all of your so called 'balanced' spikes. A/D spike, especially the ones with eles, and basic 'balance' spikes offer a lot of defense and are therefore>most pressure builds. And you guessed it, good pressure builds, not the 'balance' builds that you run are > r-spike. Welcome to BUILDWARS, those of you who complain about r-spike or any build should seriously learn it. (there are of coarse exceptions based on map goals and the objective in HoH)

Whats my point? My point is pretty damn apparent, r-spike is not OBLIVION SPIKE!, it is not IMBA. A simple pressure/ real balance build with good players (hell like i said our rt hadnt played in months, he didn't even warding well) beat r-spike, a/d spike, r/d way, hexway, ANYTHING, with ease. (ZOMG WE BEAT OBLIVION SPIKE WITH OUT A BUILD DESIGNED AROUND BEATING IT AND ONLY IT)The reason r-spike is so good atm is due to the halls meta having to many slow powerful spikes (a/d spike with eles has WAY more damage then r-spike and can tank alot of damage) and r-spike spikes faster then them so obviosly r-spike will win. IF you halls scrubs actauly knew how to make pressure builds, run them efficantly, and use your brain and learn how to counter split, then r-spike would not be a problem. Hell, even if you keep with your same 'balance' builds all you need is a prot capiable of following a a/d around or watching bows, and yes you can even watch the a/d when he jumps, there is a 1second ~ delay before the damage hits. With Choas or Moo on prot last night we took probaly 3 deaths to r-spike and a/d spike on the way to halls. So i'll say it again, lrn2prot and lrn2 pressure, or atleastr run actual balance builds and not pure spike 'balance' builds.

*Note* i use much sarcasum in dis post, please make sure you knows howz to sarcasum b4 replying. Plz do not try to counter my arguments by point out sarcaums. OBILVION spike iz a sarcasum. 'Balance' iz a sarcasum (you see its not realy a balance buils its a spike build.. wow i just described my sarcasum, that shows how sad these forums are) AND... the below statement iz a sarcaumszzz. (in fact this whole note is a sarcasums because you realy should know what sarcasum is, however im sure borat is going to quote me on all of my sarcasum and try to use them as points to make me look ignorant.)

savage shot is IMBA, plz nerf, it wouldn't hurt anything but r-spike (who uses savage in gvg..)

Kyp Jade · Apr 10, 2008, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Ciric wins thread!!!!

In all honesty though, everytime I play a 2 warrior old school pressure style build, I find it very difficult to find a good warrior. I've found exactly TWO people that can play warrior and do thier job (kill shit)

yakuza · Apr 10, 2008, 04:04 PM // 16:04

hehe agree, ciric wins the thread, and besides.....borat ur a pro.... do ur job and win, rspike is called r spike cause of 2 things:
rspike= ranger spike
R spike= mostly retards play it..thus the R being in it.....

no offense mean't to the ppl that actually win with rspike, which is jus a rare few

sororitygirl · Apr 10, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by CassiusDrehyg

Let's start a list of ways that the teams I play with counter Ranger Spike:

1) Piercing Shields.
2) Defensive Anthem.
3) "Shields Up!"
4) Non-failing Prot.
5) Non-failing Infuser.
6) Weapon of Warding.

Six basic tools which will help you on the road to success against Ranger Spike.

Oh yeah, if you have a non-failure Elementalist and non-failure Pargons, they can take down Favorable Winds for you. Ranger Spike should be a free win. Just out-pressure them.

Why have you destroyed a pretty awesome buff to Hex Breaker? It's fine the way it is now.

Seriously. Can't you just play a non-failure team v. rspike? It's so easy mate.

Also:
7) Hide behind shiet!

Chaosx1 · Apr 10, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Ups ciric wins the game.

Not to mention, we only really lost to cleo because we made a few dumb mistakes ourselves with time difference on players (They were really tired) Else we would have won, it had nothing to do with them being good or r spike being imbalanced. It was mainly just us having a few mistakes to their advantage.

PS: Ciric = r9, Borat = r12 Ups ur baed.

legacyofkain85 · Apr 10, 2008, 04:56 PM // 16:56

ranger spike isnt overpowered,good balanced team can defeat it,and if the other team has a mesmer which will probably have in case of a balanced team than all it has to do is shutdown the rit ,which means no more extra dmg from brutal and no more dw from chest thumper+sundering weapon.
I am telling this from own experience

Elri · Apr 10, 2008, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Pew..pew.---> ---->

<borat gg ciric

legacyofkain85 · Apr 10, 2008, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by yakuza

hehe agree, ciric wins the thread, and besides.....borat ur a pro.... do ur job and win, rspike is called r spike cause of 2 things:
rspike= ranger spike
R spike= mostly retards play it..thus the R being in it.....

no offense mean't to the ppl that actually win with rspike, which is jus a rare few

so if high ranked players (which im not) are retards wonder what would high ranked sway teams or heroway teams be?