Curse

Daisuko · May 06, 2008, 03:14 PM // 15:14

[skill]Soldier's Strike[/skill] [skill]Crippling Sweep[/skill] [skill]Aura Slicer[/skill] [skill]Distracting Strike[/skill] [skill]Vow of Piety[/skill] [skill]Heart of Fury[/skill] [skill]Onslaught[/skill] [skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]
[skill]Soldier's Strike[/skill] [skill]Crippling Sweep[/skill] [skill]Aura Slicer[/skill] [skill]Distracting Strike[/skill] [skill]Vow of Piety[/skill] [skill]Heart of Fury[/skill] [skill]Onslaught[/skill] [skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]
[skill]Soldier's Strike[/skill] [skill]Crippling Sweep[/skill] [skill]Aura Slicer[/skill] [skill]Distracting Strike[/skill] [skill]Vow of Piety[/skill] [skill]Heart of Fury[/skill] [skill]Onslaught[/skill] [skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]
[skill]order of the vampire[/skill] [skill]Strip Enchantment[/skill] [skill]Foul Feast[/skill] [skill]Masochism[/skill] [skill]Make Haste[/skill] [skill]Plague Sending[/skill] [skill]Song of Concentration[/skill] [skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]
[skill]Disrupting Throw[/skill] [skill]Vicious Attack[/skill] [skill]Anthem of Guidance[/skill] [skill]Go for the eyes[/skill] [skill]They're on Fire![/skill] [skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill] [skill]Blazing Finale[/skill] [skill]Signet of Return[/skill]
[skill]Divert Hexes[/skill] [skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill] [skill]Guardian[/skill] [Protective Spirit] [skill]Spirit Bond[/skill] [skill]Holy Veil[/skill] [skill]Aegis[/skill] [skill]Channeling[/skill]
[Healer's Boon] [Patient Spirit] [Dwayna's Kiss] [Infuse Health] [Vigorous Spirit] [Cure Hex] [Heal Party] [Channeling]

Might change a derv for something else, unsure what though. ~Edited many times, still thinking of possible changes to hopefully improve the build, I'll be back later. >.>
(Would like some suggestions for the prot monk's bar, and in specific, the elite, as I don't think air would be the best choice, but can't think of a better one offhand)

So far, for attributes, I'm thinking...
9 + 1 mysticism, 10 + 1 + 1 scythe, 10 + 2 wind, 7 tactics for dervish
12 + 1 + 2 blood, 9 + 1 soul reaping, 9 spear mastery, 3 + 1 curses for necro (Could lower soul reaping for higher spear)
12 + 1 + 2 leadership, 9 + 1 spear, 9 command for the first, and 9 spear, 9+1 command for the second para

Melody Cross · May 06, 2008, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Its [skill]skill name[/skill]
[skill]Guardian[/skill]

Killed u man · May 06, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Bad build. I WOULD post constructive criticism, but the build is simply to random to make anything out of it. I'dd have to rewrite all skills.

Here's a list of what is wrong:

-No sigs, only 2 hard rezzes
-Not a single snare (Relic Run, welcome to HA)
-Not a single speed buff (Relic Run, welcome to HA)
-Not a single interrupt (Chocking Gas without Practised stance, aswell as the fact he has to keep spirirts down?)
-No E-denial (Fear Me is going to have 3 recharge, ASSUMING QZ is up all the time -which it won't- and Scythes are very slow weapons)
-No Point in a Bonder, because of the many sways out there
-Only hexbreaker aura as hex removal. This is VERY bad.

It's obvious, and don't take this offensivly, that you are a PvE player. Learn the basics of HA first before you make builds.

Obv. it could work (Iv'e gotten to HoH with 6 W/P's and 2 W/Mo's before), but then it will be mere random luck.

The build is junk, and the best advice you could get on this one is to simpyl let it go

Sword · May 06, 2008, 04:10 PM // 16:10

wouldnt work, theres not enough pressure before team would die , recasting vow of silence is the main problem as its duration makes it a useless elite
ive thoght of builds similar to this with paragon healers (chants . signets still work through vow) , but the duration of vow really destroys the build's potential

Daisuko · May 06, 2008, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Bad build. I WOULD post constructive criticism, but the build is simply to random to make anything out of it. I'dd have to rewrite all skills.

Here's a list of what is wrong:

-No sigs, only 2 hard rezzes
-Not a single snare (Relic Run, welcome to HA)
-Not a single speed buff (Relic Run, welcome to HA)
-Not a single interrupt (Chocking Gas without Practised stance, aswell as the fact he has to keep spirirts down?)
-No E-denial (Fear Me is going to have 3 recharge, ASSUMING QZ is up all the time -which it won't- and Scythes are very slow weapons)
-No Point in a Bonder, because of the many sways out there
-Only hexbreaker aura as hex removal. This is VERY bad.

It's obvious, and don't take this offensivly, that you are a PvE player. Learn the basics of HA first before you make builds.

Obv. it could work (Iv'e gotten to HoH with 6 W/P's and 2 W/Mo's before), but then it will be mere random luck.

The build is junk, and the best advice you could get on this one is to simpyl let it go

Well, you do have some valid points, however some you don't. :P

No sigs, few hard resurrects. - Replace zealous sweep for resurrection signet, drop a dervish for another charge paragon, change the paragon's builds for more utility (since there's two instead of one)
No snare? That's fine. Swap lyssa's assault for crippling victory.
No interrupts? with two paragons, I could add in anthem of disruption.
No e-denial? As for scythes being slow weapons... Dark fury; Heart of fury. 33% IAS and double adrenaline. I can also add in "fear me" on both paras.
No point in the bonder? You're right, there isn't a point. (without QZ anyway) The point of the bonder, was that with QZ blessed signet would give him near-limitless energy for heals. Removing that from the equation just replaces him with a more standard healer.
Hex removal issues? The ranger could be swapped for an Expel Rit, without QZ.

And yes, I have little experience with HA, and I'm sure that shows. The main reason this build was in the HA section was because it was 8-man, and therefore would not work in TA, AB, ect...

Also, the build does appear to be PvE-esque, because it was originally designed for PvE, I was just trying to adapt it for PvP because I saw potential in it. >.>

I do have to disagree with you however, I find that creativity is a good thing, and you need new ideas (even if they're rough) in order to progress. ^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword

wouldnt work, theres not enough pressure before team would die , recasting vow of silence is the main problem as its duration makes it a useless elite
ive thoght of builds similar to this with paragon healers (chants . signets still work through vow) , but the duration of vow really destroys the build's potential

Yeah, I see your point. I was only attempting to make a working build that uses Vow of Silence, because I think it could be a powerful elite. Non-targetted healing, signets, shouts, and echoes can assist, but they still usually take too much damage. How does the duration of vow destroy the build? >.> with a 20% enchanting scythe it lasts 10 seconds, with 10 recharge. then you re-cast it. xD

I agree with you that it does need more pressure, the only real pressure is from constant burn to those near the attack dervishes, and of course their attacks. Well, that and energy denial, wich after the nerf to fear me isn't monumental.

Taisayacho · May 06, 2008, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwinthisgame

u bad at game

Okay first of all I think that's very unhelpful.

Second, I'm not a fan of VoS in PvP as there are elites that are much more useful for dervs.

Lastly the healing side, I don't think this monk would be able to take much pressure, and we all know what happens to monks who can't take pressure in PvP.

My two cents

(Don't flame, just my opinion)

Daisuko · May 06, 2008, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taisayacho

Okay first of all I think that's very unhelpful.

Second, I'm not a fan of VoS in PvP as there are elites that are much more useful for dervs.

Lastly the healing side, I don't think this monk would be able to take much pressure, and we all know what happens to monks who can't take pressure in PvP.

My two cents

(Don't flame, just my opinion)

True, vow of silence isn't really even needed, I was just trying to work a build around it. >.> It'd likely be more beneficial to use wounding strike or some such, and just have condition removal for blind mainly, as that's usually the most detrimental effect, say from blinding surge.

I agree with you however, because without QZ the healing is reduced greatly. The orders derv does help however, with mystic healing. However, as stated above, in order for this to be viable I'm sure many changes would have to be made. :P

Lorekeeper · May 06, 2008, 04:58 PM // 16:58

I have the following suggestions which might improve your build...

1) change the ranger to an Oath Shot spirit spammer, with Quickening Zephyr and some traps like Dust Trap and Barbed Trap. Consider giving it Whirling Defense or Pious Concentration. The trapper can also be considered as the character who brings things like Make Haste/Song of Concentration depending on the rest of your build

2) forget about monk backlines altogether - QZ would make energy management for them extremely difficult to handle especially if you plan on putting up QZ versus sway - consider running paragon/monk or necro/rit backlines ala zergway or sway

3) Consider taking some alternative frontline characters, perhaps axe warriors with disrupting chop, hammer warriors with KD, shattering assault A/W simply because having 4 Vow of Silence Dervishes is not that necessary. Dchop is incredibly good pressure in combination with Dark Fury. KDs are incredibly good pressure in heavy physical builds. Shattering Assault sins are incredibly good pressure when training prot monks, especially in combination with QZ, assuming you can manage energy on the sin.

4) if running a paragon/monk backline consider something like a Crippling Anthem paragon with make haste instead of the charge paragon.

5) forget about bonders in HA, the meta right now is extremely hostile to maintained enchantments (rend enchantment spikes, dark apostasy frontliners, rending touch frontliners, well of profane on altars etc etc)

NOTE: i realise that i basically described zergway version 3 without NR/Tranq but with QZ... but in all honesty, its probably the optimal set up for physical based fear me pressure builds. QZ is an interesting workaround for the recharge nerf to fear me, I did not suggest to take NR/Tranq because that would force me to remove all the orders from your build... but it is another alternative in which case you would have to replace the dervish with something else...

So your build could look something like this

4x Hammer warrior/Axe warrior
2x paragon/monk backline SoR/SoP
1x oath shot spirit spammer with QZ/NR/Tranq and traps
1x free slot

For the free slot I would suggest a third paragon with either Expel Hexes, Crippling Anthem, Anthem of Fury or some other useful utility that would benefit the entire team.

But I apologise for the fact that it completely changes your build lol.

Daisuko · May 06, 2008, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Lorekeeper, that's fine. ^^ Good suggestions. I mainly made this build as an attempt to make a worthwhile build using vow of silence, and I realize that 4 is way too many. :P True, I hadn't thought about rend enchantments and the like, I was mainly thinking of mirror of disenchant, and one (or two) enchant strips, since the orders derv would have taken care of that. I'll be fine just letting this fall apart, it was mostly just me screwing around with QZ and VoS to try and make that viable, but the spirit would be killed too frequently anyway.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · May 06, 2008, 05:39 PM // 17:39

I herd dmg waz gud?

Yeah but seriously, how on earth do you expect to make it past the first map, bore the other team to death?

Like really, I can see about 6 damage skills in that build and you expect that to kill a whole team?

Think about things before you post please.

Songbringer · May 06, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

[QUOTE=Daisuko]No e-denial? As for scythes being slow weapons... Dark fury; Heart of fury. 33% IAS and double adrenaline. I can also add in "fear me" on both paras.
QUOTE]

Fear Me on a ranged char? So they build adrenaline and run up to use fear me?

supa tim · May 06, 2008, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Stop trying to make this build work please, coz it merely won't.

(note to every1)
BEFORE you post a build here, try to fit in these things:

- Snares
- Speedboost (Make haste together with Song of concentration is nice)
- Condit removal
- Hex removal
- Some interupt
- DAMAGE (very important unless u playing stupid A/Me shadowform bitch)
- Heals/Prots to keep ur team alive
- (If not full spike build) AOE (area of effect damage)
- Song of Concentration (altar cap)
- Enchant removal (only if really unnescesary)
- Utility (something to help your monks/healers/etc.)
- Not retarded skills.

Grz,

TimmeH

ZenRgy · May 07, 2008, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daisuko

Well, you do have some valid points, however some you don't. :P

No sigs, few hard resurrects. - Replace zealous sweep for resurrection signet, drop a dervish for another charge paragon, change the paragon's builds for more utility (since there's two instead of one)
No snare? That's fine. Swap lyssa's assault for crippling victory.
No interrupts? with two paragons, I could add in anthem of disruption.
No e-denial? As for scythes being slow weapons... Dark fury; Heart of fury. 33% IAS and double adrenaline. I can also add in "fear me" on both paras.
No point in the bonder? You're right, there isn't a point. (without QZ anyway) The point of the bonder, was that with QZ blessed signet would give him near-limitless energy for heals. Removing that from the equation just replaces him with a more standard healer.
Hex removal issues? The ranger could be swapped for an Expel Rit, without QZ.

And yes, I have little experience with HA, and I'm sure that shows. The main reason this build was in the HA section was because it was 8-man, and therefore would not work in TA, AB, ect...

Also, the build does appear to be PvE-esque, because it was originally designed for PvE, I was just trying to adapt it for PvP because I saw potential in it. >.>

I do have to disagree with you however, I find that creativity is a good thing, and you need new ideas (even if they're rough) in order to progress. ^^

You need more than Crippling Victory for snares.
Anthem of Disruption is a bad interrupt.
Fear Me! Pressure is "Meh" now.
A regular monk with channeling will give him "near limitless" energy for monk.

Give the dervishes a bar that does damage, give them a better elite.
Keep the orders if you really want, I'd swap it for Splinter/Ancestor rit
Give the paragons good bars (give them spear mastery, big damage)
New monk bars.
Bring in a mesmer/something with reliable interrupts/shutdown.

Heavy physical builds can work, however you will have to redesign a lot to make it work, understand that if you run a heavy physical build - then you need to counter hexes and conditions.

Sun Fired Blank · May 07, 2008, 10:51 AM // 10:51

If I had the chance to screw around on this line of thought, I might run something like this:

[Eviscerate][Executioner's Strike][Disrupting Chop][Bull's Strike][Frenzy][Rush][Rending Touch][Resurrection Signet]
[Eviscerate][Executioner's Strike][Disrupting Chop][Bull's Strike][Frenzy][Rush][Shock][Resurrection Signet]
[Crippling Anthem][Wild Throw][Blazing Spear][Go For The Eyes!][Make Haste][Anthem of Flame][Aggressive Refrain][Signet of Return]
[Cruel Spear][Wild Throw][Blazing Spear][Go For The Eyes!][Weapon of Warding][Song of Concentration][Aggressive Refrain][Death Pact Signet]
[Arcane Zeal][Order of Pain][Dark Fury][Mystic Healing][Faithful Intervention][Watchful Intervention][Vow of Piety][Resurrection Signet]
[Infuriating Heat][Savage Shot][Distracting Shot][Lightning Reflexes][Apply Poison][Ward Against Foes][Grasping Earth][Resurrection Signet]
[Restore Condition][Reversal of Fortune][Guardian][Spirit Bond][Aura of Stability][Holy Veil][Shield of Absorption][Channeling]
[Healer's Boon][Patient Spirit][Dwayna's Kiss][Infuse Health][Draw Conditions][Spotless Mind][Heal Party][Channeling]

It's kind of a shit idea, but the first thing that readily comes to mind.

Kyp Jade · May 07, 2008, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Putting a build together based around a single skill doesnt usually work. Vow of Silence is just a meh skill anyway.

When build designing, look at the meta, before I quit it was physical/spirit pressure (sway), and physical spike builds (A/D, rspike)

With so much emphasis on physical damage in the meta, it shouldnt be too hard to compile a list of things that are physical damage hate, and design a build around them.

Most people fail at build design,
add a melee or two
add 7 fire eles
add a couple paragons
2 monks

gogogo

is the common idea of build design I've seen people do. You wonder why people scream 'rank discrimination' and stuff when nobody ever lets them in groups when they run builds like that haha.

moko · May 07, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

its pretty fail to delete posts, just because lorekeeper does not like them

it's pretty fail to delete posts because users are utterly stupid.

lorekeeper didn't even say anything; go back to your trollcave already. :> you can consider this a warning -- keep this topic clean.

Div · May 07, 2008, 08:22 PM // 20:22

That monk is going to get stomped pretty hard, especially since he's the only monk, has no real self-protection, and only has 500 health. And renew life is...beyond horrible.

P.S. You guys got pretty owned by Moko's ragedeleting lol

MetalMan · May 07, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

That monk will be stomped into the ground.

Plus, your going extremely melee heavy. One aegis or a couple DA paras and your build will be useless as the DPS you put out will be minimal.

Risus · May 07, 2008, 08:58 PM // 20:58

This is just randomnenss. Please think your builds through. Aegis will make this uber phail with a capital Z

Daisuko · May 07, 2008, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risus

This is just randomnenss. Please think your builds through. Aegis will make this uber phail with a capital Z

Aegis is 50% block. Soldier's strike is unblockable, and would be 2s recharge. Please think my builds through. Aegis would be uber phail against this build with a capital Z