Curse

DarkNecrid · May 19, 2008, 04:48 PM // 16:48

so yeah, basically, I obs, I fight, and all I see are those GIMMICK builds. Well, not gimmicks per se but scythe sins and crap. Boooring. That and it doesn't teach a new player interested in sins how to do anything cept make things blow up.

Soooo, I'm looking for an Assassin build, with the following requirements: must use daggers, must be good at splitting, must take skill and able to teach a new player stuff. (NOTE: i sux with sin, which is why I'm asking)

YES I KNOW SINS TAKE NO SKILL HAHAHAHAHA...but I'm not looking for an instagib build or anything. I was gonna just run a HOTO sin, but it got nerfed pretty bad and I dunno if it's still "good" anymore. I've not seen anyone use it, but I assume that's because INSTAGIB RULES or whatever.

So yeah....help me out here.

Keekles · May 19, 2008, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Shattering assault seems like a pretty decent 'balanced' sin build. (At least to me)

Sins at the moment are all about making things blow up, namely npcs in gvg matches.

Greedy Gus · May 19, 2008, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Just use a degen+deepwound combo with at least one kd/interrupt, and pack the rest of the bar with utility & movement. Don't worry if +damage was nerfed on a skill.

Alex the Great · May 19, 2008, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keekles

Shattering assault seems like a pretty decent 'balanced' sin build. (At least to me)

Sins at the moment are all about making things blow up, namely npcs in gvg matches.

QFT.

sin's gank in gvg, and Shattering is good, but not offten used in gvg

A Lustful Thrust · May 19, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

start with something stupid and gimmicky because you'll probably be bad at gimmick bars too. these bars usually have excessive amounts of block and healing to make up for lack of talent and critical thinking. i don't have any bars saved, but things that come to me are builds like flashing blades and usually something with critical defenses+critical eye.

when you get used to general sin movement and how the class should be played, move on to something a little bit more offensive. moebius is a pretty good bar to start with since it has a self heal and a decent chain.

[Leaping Mantis Sting][Exhausting Assault][Moebius Strike][Twisting Fangs][Horns of the Ox][Shadow Walk][Dash][Restful Breeze]

it has a forever chain if you select targets correctly and unless it gets protted repeatedly you're going to do successive damage until it either dies or gets protted. it has an easy way to get in, get out, and heal itself. time your exhausting to get an easy interrupt and use horns for an easy knock.

when you get used to relying on your compass, what you see, and your skills as a player and what you equip on your bar you can move onto harder bars to play. shadow prison is meta now because it does everything you're expected to do with the class.

[Shadow Prison][Black Mantis Thrust][Tiger Stance][Black Spider Strike][Trampling Ox][Falling Lotus Strike][Twisting Fangs][Expose Defenses]

shadow prison is still meta because it provides a lot of conditions, has a snare+teleport, and does big damage over a short time, which is why you're there in the first place. you can't be stupid or you're just going to die; you need to select open targets that you can kill and make sure you can get in and get out without dying. there's a super long recharge on shadow prison and tiger stance so make sure you're using them effectively.

other builds like shattering assault are primarily pressure bars and usually don't have a use outside of pressure. they're good in arenas and ab because of the lack of non-prot block but they don't do big damage as fast or apply any condition pressure. grenth's grasp is a trade off for lazy people who can't time their leaping mantis or use black mantis thrust. it gives up too much for what it does (elite slot for being lazy).

these are the main bars you're going to see because sin skills are either really good or terribly shitty (mostly shitty). arenas are usually bad practice because they have limited spaces to move in and don't really focus on what you should be doing with the class. play in ab where you can practice collapsing, moving around, and selecting targets.

Whammo · May 19, 2008, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Sins aren't balanced. As long as the chain attack mechanic stays, they won't take skill to play.
Everything a sin will ever teach you is to press buttons in a sertain order.
If you are looking for a balanced frontliner, try warrior.

horseradish · May 19, 2008, 08:27 PM // 20:27

The Shattering Assault build is the most balanced a Sin can get.

FlamingMetroid · May 19, 2008, 08:36 PM // 20:36

[shattering assault] again because its true

Farin · May 19, 2008, 08:38 PM // 20:38

[Golden phoenix strike][horns of the ox][falling spider][twisting fangs][shock][shadow refuge][aura of displacement][dark escape]

wakakakakakak

FlamingMetroid · May 19, 2008, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farin

[Golden phoenix strike][horns of the ox][falling spider][twisting fangs][shock][shadow refuge][aura of displacement][dark escape]

wakakakakakak

: o old school
that would work too, because of its versatility and the multiple ways the chain can be executed

RavagerOfDreams · May 19, 2008, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farin

[Golden phoenix strike][horns of the ox][falling spider][twisting fangs][shock][shadow refuge][aura of displacement][dark escape]

wakakakakakak

and i thought i was the only one left who ran that. Still my favorite sin build never really liked the new spikes as i may blow something up but i usually get blown up not to long after that :S

it may be olds school but its got great mobility, decent survivability, and a nasty little spike

Bobby2 · May 19, 2008, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Pressure version of above; Shadow pts into Air

[skill]conjure lightning[/skill] instead of [skill]shadow refuge[/skill]
[skill]dash[/skill] instead of [skill]dark escape[/skill]

Vague Twilight · May 19, 2008, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farin

[Golden phoenix strike][horns of the ox][falling spider][twisting fangs][shock][shadow refuge][aura of displacement][dark escape]

wakakakakakak

In general, any AoD bar with GPS can show a little more mobility and versatility than an insta-gank bar. I've been working with this lately:

[Aura of Displacement][Golden Lotus Strike][Wild Strike][Twisting Fangs][Golden Phoenix Strike][Blades of Steel][Restful Breeze][Resurrection Signet]

It can either execute the full chain or "spike assist" on a target by going through either GLS + WS + GPS + BoS or, if your target is low on health and you're still recharging Twisting Fangs, just pop in for a GPS + BoS finish. As always, AoD is excellent mobility both offensively and defensively.

The above build with Shock is similar but with more shutdown capability. Two knockdowns (one of them available at any point in the chain) is a great advantage and with a Shock + Falling Spider + Twisting Fangs partial combo you can perform a similar "spike assist" as the bar I posted.

I personally prefer the more balanced Assassin build as well since I'm not one of the folk who counts on healers to get Glad point or whatever. I count on being able to both survive and kill on my own.

Hope this helps =).

-FengShuiDove IGN: Jin Hwoarang

RavagerOfDreams · May 19, 2008, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vague Twilight

In general, any AoD bar with GPS can show a little more mobility and versatility than an insta-gank bar. I've been working with this lately:

[Aura of Displacement][Golden Lotus Strike][Wild Strike][Twisting Fangs][Golden Phoenix Strike][Blades of Steel][Restful Breeze][Resurrection Signet]

there is a very simple reason as to why the original is better

KD's

allow you to take out players with a shock at the beginning of the spike then HoTO halfway through and allow you to interupt a NPC's Healing Signet or Troll Unguent.

also might want to consider brining fox fangs instead of wild while not using a IAS as its activation time is much more spike friendly

Bobby2 · May 20, 2008, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vague Twilight

/snip

Srsly if you are going for a 5-slot attack chain you are better off going /W for Tiger Stance instead of Restful Breeze - maybe you may once complete your chain against a skilled opponent.

No snare
No interrupts/KDs
No utility bar Wild Strike

I've certainly seen more versatile chains...

shru · May 20, 2008, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farin

[Golden phoenix strike][horns of the ox][falling spider][twisting fangs][shock][shadow refuge][aura of displacement][dark escape]

wakakakakakak

This is the build that actualy made sins tolerable for me.

If you're looking for balance on a sin, you realy can't get much better than this.

Bobby2 · May 20, 2008, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Except that Shadow Arts skills are really crappy.

I D E L E T E D I · May 20, 2008, 08:37 AM // 08:37

In a 8v8 Team, such as a split Heavy Team in GvG Shattering might be considered "balanced" but in a 4v4 where a monk counts on prots like SB and Guardian to stick its imba as hell.

I was going to post the AoD build myself yesterday but i couldnt be bothered to look up the bar. It could be considered the most "balanced" sin build.

But the whole reason sins are so imba are because of shadowstepping, and any bar that has any form of it, will always be imba.

Magikarp · May 20, 2008, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Shattering Assault all the way. its strong, reliable, packs a crap load of utility, and won't leave you standing around like an idiot 90% of the fight while you wait to recharge.

shru · May 20, 2008, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Pressure version of above; Shadow pts into Air

[skill]conjure lightning[/skill] instead of [skill]shadow refuge[/skill]
[skill]dash[/skill] instead of [skill]dark escape[/skill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Except that Shadow Arts skills are really crappy.

Except that shadow refuge is part of its versatility and dark escape is its only real defense. Shadow refuge is a fast recharging enchant that can power GFS while AoD is down or if you're getting stripped, and ofc, dark escape reduces damage and allows you to kite to safety.
Overall the build has lost a lot of its former charm with the HotO nerf, and it's probably outclassed in usefullness by shattering now, but I still maintain that nothing out there atm can match its adaptability to any situation.