Curse

Trick · May 30, 2008, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Just wondering if anyone can give me any points on getting into gvg, as to me it looks impossible with the vicious circle that is pvp. Cant pvp without a high rank in the selected arena, but cant get a high rank without pvpin. And seeing as i hate the randomness of ra.. I wana get into more structured pvp, so if anyone could point me in the right direction of how to learn/get into gvg/ha it would be appreciated.

wolfy3455 · May 30, 2008, 05:19 PM // 17:19

If you really want to get into pvp, you're going to need a guild. Don't expect to get to the higher levels immediately; if you're not experienced, experienced people have no reason to want to play with you. Don't be afraid to guild hop since most people playing don't put in effort to improve. You're first few guilds will probably be awful, but there is a huge gap between someone with no experience and someone with low level experience. At the same time, don't dismiss any guild that you feel is worse than you are atm. If you only guild hop, and never actually play with any guilds, you'll never improve.

There are also programs like Billiard's kisu that help out new gvgers. I don't have a link offhand, but theres probably one on the forum if you look for it. Its sort of a mentor-type program where they take inexperienced players that want to learn GvG and let them play with experienced players so that they can learn.

Motoko Kusanagi War · May 30, 2008, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

The more pompous and cocky you are, the more likely a GvG group will see you as one of their kind and accept you into their groups. Bonus points for saying "fail" every other word. Don't forget to over-glorify Izzy and shock axe.

Us high end pvpers do not worship izzy. He is more an enemy than an ally. Shock axe is amazing, why do you think eviscerate is the most nerfed skill in the game?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

And remember that pr0 pvp people often use ,,lol noob /fame r3'' and ,,lol pwnd bbq''.

And you must showboast like there is no tomorrow.

This example is if you wish to play with 9 year old pvpers. Which Abedeus obviously has done. Or is 9 years old himself.

The best would be to RA and get some sort of title such as Gladiator 3 or something. Then apply for low rated guilds and learn simple ropes there. HA can teach you thebasics of playing pvp, but GvG will take your playing skills and perfect them to make you a smarter thorough player.

And it also depends on your preference asa character. If you are a monk, practice, be good, and people will reinvite you to play again. If you are a warrior, make groups, learn what low ranks have potential, and what low ranks should never be invited again.

Low rank doesn't mean your bad to us higher pvpers. It just helps us assume you are less experienced.

GL

Ec]-[oMaN · May 30, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

Oh, don't EVER deviate from the standard gvg build for your class. Do not try to innovate, do not try to do something different. Obviously nothing else works in GvG except the standard builds that EVERYONE in GW uses.

I sense the sarcasm here but TBH I would actually follow the rules of above. Especially if the player or guild as a whole just doesn't understand all the fundamentals surrounding PvP, and GvG. It's much easier to start with something concrete and figure out why it works and how. Instead of attempting to mash some skill bars together and then going into GvG followed by complete failure time after time with no baseline to judge on why the build is failing.

Anyways to the OP check out this guild if you feel like getting started in GvG and joining a fairly big community that they have.

http://teamlove.us/kisu/

TrippieHippie89 · May 30, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

dont listen to the first three posters they're apparently complete idiots

start small get in with a 1-2k range guild to get some practice in with whatever profession you're on, then as you get better and get more references try getting into top 1k then top 700 then top 500, etc, etc, etc

Trick · May 30, 2008, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Thanks wolfy for being the only person to give me anything i can practically use, rather than stereotyping gvg players.

Edit: thanks to alot more ppl that replied after i last refreshed before this post.

I also still dont see how rank means asmuch as it does, some guy may of played for years and thus had more time to get the ranks but still be as bad as when he started, but cause he has the rank he gets picked over newer players that pick up the game faster, and understand the concepts needed to win/succeed

HawkofStorms · May 30, 2008, 05:33 PM // 17:33

The best idea is to find either a guild, or a guild in your alliance, that already does GvGs. Then, every once in a while, ask if they need an 8th man. Letting one newer player in for a GvG with 7 experienced players won't do much harm (as long as you aren't in a super hardcore guild). You won't be monking or doing anything too complex, but you can usually get into a few of the eaiser positions, like an ele, a dervish, warrior, or necro.

Billiard · May 30, 2008, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trick

Just wondering if anyone can give me any points on getting into gvg, as to me it looks impossible with the vicious circle that is pvp. Cant pvp without a high rank in the selected arena, but cant get a high rank without pvpin. And seeing as i hate the randomness of ra.. I wana get into more structured pvp, so if anyone could point me in the right direction of how to learn/get into gvg/ha it would be appreciated.

Getting good at PvP is a process a lot like getting really good at PvE. While you can muddle your way through, there really are few short cuts - you have to put in the time and effort to learn and get better.

And while RA is truly random, it does help you learn some basic stuff like how and when to use the skills on your skill bar, how to position and kite to avoid damage, etc. A lot of PvP players practice new roles and skill bars in RA to get a proper feel for them, even though they have thousands of GvG matches under their belt.

When you get to a "more structured" environment, you still have to put in hours outside of actually GvGing in order to learn what to do and how to do it - there is no magical way to instantly get you the thousands of hours of experience a lot of your opponents have. This is a common misconception we face with players who decide to try their hand at PvP for the first time - they don't realize that to even get the basics down they have to put in a ton of time observing matches and practicing skill bars outside of matches. If players don't put in this effort, they just end up getting their team owned and wasting the time of the other 7 players who have been working hard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trick

I also still dont see how rank means asmuch as it does, some guy may of played for years and thus had more time to get the ranks but still be as bad as when he started, but cause he has the rank he gets picked over newer players that pick up the game faster, and understand the concepts needed to win/succeed

Experience counts for a lot actually. No matter how fast you pick things up, there is no way that you can know what to do in the hundreds of different situations in a match where you have to make the right decision instantly or your team is going to wipe. Even smart new players will have a lag time of 10-20 seconds in reacting to something in match that they are not familiar with, and it will cost your team the game. Honestly if a player comes to me with this attitude of yours I really have no use for them as they are just going to drag down the team.

Tab · May 30, 2008, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Obs alot, choose what role you want to specialise in and practice. Start with the smaller/easier formats such as RA/TA/HA to get used to the role and start building up your friends list, then try and get into a decent GvG guild to get more experience.

Or just leech off people far better than you. That's what I did.

Trick · May 30, 2008, 06:00 PM // 18:00

youve taken what i said wrongly, i never said experience isnt important im just saying there may be ppl that have less clue in what they're doing than me, they just get picked over me cause theyve done ra more than me and lucked with a gd team or such. i find it abit confusing as to why it would mean so much

as when i was monking in ta, some guy ran right out of my range to atk a ranger then shouted at me when they died going on about how i should follow them out there as they were r3 g or something, and knew what they were doing..

and for putting time into mastering bars and learning tactics, my love of watching gvg is whats wanted me to get into it, im always watching the monthly torns to see what variations in builds are being run and how they execute them i find it interesting. Ive just not been able to see a entre point into it, thus why i posted this.

Ec]-[oMaN · May 30, 2008, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trick

youve taken what i said wrongly, i never said experience isnt important im just saying there may be ppl that have less clue in what they're doing than me, they just get picked over me cause theyve done ra more than me and lucked with a gd team or such. i find it abit confusing as to why it would mean so much

What you mention here does tend to happen. Rank or various titles are just a gauging tool. Over the years these titles have really diminished their true meaning of talent/skill, but anyone with a brain recruiting for PvP purposes takes titles with a grain of salt/ or as a secondary concern. It still comes down to how well you play during matches and how well you mesh with the players around you. I've played with people who didn't even have a rank 3 champ title and have won capes more easily than with people r4champ+.

around · May 30, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Step 1: Start your own guild
Step 2: Invite some random PvE scrubs
Step 3: Play some lame gimmick (back in the day it was rspike then FoC spike)
Step 4: ???
Step 5: PROFIT

At least, that's how I did it.

Other than that, what everyone else said. Just join a guild that are just starting GvG as well, so you all progress at roughly the same pace. No point joining even r800+ teams, as they all (mostly) have an idea of how to play already.

Franco Power · May 30, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trick

as when i was monking in ta, some guy ran right out of my range to atk a ranger then shouted at me when they died going on about how i should follow them out there as they were r3 g or something, and knew what they were doing..

He was right, he was probably trying to shut the ranger down and instead of following him you just stood in your place probably spamming healing breeze instead of assisting and giving your team support, just because you're a monk doesn't mean other classes cater to your needs, Monks follow, warriors/whatever kill, it's the way it works. Obviously there are special cases, if the monk is under a lot of pressure and some idiot runs way out of range then it's his fault, but I can't see that situation in a puged TA game.

No offense, I'm not saying you're like that, but I lost count of the times I went into RA and the first thing the monk says is that he's not gonna chase anyone or "i only heal myself", it shows straight away that the person is a bad monk.

RED ENGINE THING

Quote:

some guy ran right out of my range

Omg, look at what you are writting and read it before you post, someone went out of your healing range, Alert the media! That should never happen, honestly, if you can't cope with 3 people and 1 one of them being out of your range so you have to run/kite a bit then don't even bother going into GvG yet.

Yichi · May 30, 2008, 06:39 PM // 18:39

*edited first sentance since posts were removed*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motoko Kusanagi War

The best would be to RA and get some sort of title such as Gladiator 3 or something. Then apply for low rated guilds and learn simple ropes there. HA can teach you the basics of playing pvp, but GvG will take your playing skills and perfect them to make you a smarter thorough player.

Before you even think about getting into PvP, download ventrilo or teamspeak and have a working microphone that you can use. This is vital. I will try to expand a little on what motoko said:

For starters, most players think that just because they want to PvP, that they will automatically be good and that they should be on the best and most successful teams. Well for starters, throw that bullshit out the window. You must go into PvP with a clean slate and an open mind. If you don't and go into it with an attitude, you're just gonna end up getting shit on.

Secondly, Learn what builds are viable in the current metagame. (learn what a metagame is if you don't already know as this term is used a tremendous deal) Sadly, most experimental builds that the so called "Players with Origionality" or "Unique Snowflakes" come up with are complete crap. They are either bad builds with poor skill choices, or builds that do not work in a team situation, or are just random bullshit pve farming builds brought into PvP because it worked when they ran through the game with their heroes so it must be gud right?

Third, figure out all the equipment you'll need for your character. This is especially important if you are using a PvE character. Your weapons, armor, runes, inscriptions, etc. will all play a role in how effective your build and your character will be.

Fourth, start in lower PvP areas to familiarize yourself with different playstyles, different objectives, builds, characters, etc. Find out what works and what doesn't for you as a player. Learn why builds work, how skills synergize, kiting, preprotting (if monking), skill canceling, positioning, anything you would need to know or would have a question about. Ra/ab are decent entrance points into PvP. I only say decent because theres a lot of crap in them and they are completely random. After getting some expierence in then, head to Team Arenas. Get yourself comfortable with team builds and coordinating and communicating with other people. After getting some expierence there, and prob r2-4 glad out of it, youll have a better understanding of what your character is needed for, and what you'll encounter. Then use things like mIRC for pug pvp (either HA or GvG), apply for entry level PvP guilds on forums such as www.teamquitter.com or go sign up for expierence in GvG with guilds such as http://teamlove.us/kisu/ Getting into a good PvP guild will take work on your part, I won't lie. Getting good and having a decent knowledge of PvP will take work on your part. You are going to lose and lose lots at first. But nothing comes free. You have to work for it to attain the best results.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrippieHippie89

don't listen to the first three posters they're apparently complete idiots

I won't even go into this other than saying /agree...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrippieHippie89

start small get in with a 1-2k range guild to get some practice in with whatever profession you're on, then as you get better and get more references try getting into top 1k then top 700 then top 500, etc, etc, etc

Guilds around this range, as a new player is what you should be expecting to get (referring to the O.p.) As I said, you're not going to get into a top winning PvP guild just because you decide that you want to PvP. you're gonna have to start where the rest of us did, at the beginning. But you'll find that building a PvP friendslist and knowing people can get you into groups and once people have seen how you play, better guilds/pugs can come along much easier, provided you can play on the same level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trick

I also still dont see how rank means asmuch as it does, some guy may of played for years and thus had more time to get the ranks but still be as bad as when he started, but cause he has the rank he gets picked over newer players that pick up the game faster, and understand the concepts needed to win/succeed

Rank only means that you have expierence playing PvP, it by no means says that the player is any good. There are almost as many shit r9 players out now that there are r1 players, but getting started in PvP means you have to grind yourself some points, wether it be Gladiator or Hero points, you do need some. And at first, they will not come easy. Many people seem to forget this and automatically think that they should. You will lose far more matches than you will win starting off. I guarentee it. Having rank to any expierenced player means that you have knowledge of what to do on certain maps, when to run relics, when to cap, when to block runners, when to fall back, when to rush in, etc... As with anything, pugs are going to take any form of expierence over having nothing. Pug's usually have little to no patience and aren't as willing to help teach someone the ropes as an organized guild would be. Most expierenced players will know of people that are decent or good at PvP and will ask them to play. As you progress, you'll develop contacts to do the same with. A good Friends list > rank, anyone with half a brain will tell you so

Also check pug threads such as the one here in guild section. Many players, even top ranked players, will almost always pug with or guest for anyone when they aren't busy, just for the opportunity to play.

GL getting into PvP and hopefully you enjoy yourself because afterall, the game should be fun first and foremost.

Trick · May 30, 2008, 06:46 PM // 18:46

to franko at the time i had a sin trying to spike me and a dervish running yaa that was happyly spamming, the warrior running away helped even less with helping to fulfill yaa condition

Yichi · May 30, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

[skill]Guardian[/skill] > Sin's 90% of the time.

Trick · May 30, 2008, 06:58 PM // 18:58

would lead to the fact that a dervish running yaa is 95% likely to have bullstrike so if i tried to make for kiting even with cripple(useless) i would be flat on my ass easy spike for sin

Div · May 30, 2008, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Putting this type of question in Q/A where the reader base is predominantly Riversiders is like asking 10 year olds how to become successful scientists.

Nonetheless, Motoko and Yichi gave some good advice. Listen to them. It also helps to read some Glad's arena guides.

Yichi · May 30, 2008, 07:01 PM // 19:01

have dervish selected as target, even on a monk. Bull's strike you can see comming. When you see it starting to be que'd, stop moving. (will take lots of practice, but great for making wars waste bulls strike)

another option is to use defensive stances or teleports.

Trick · May 30, 2008, 07:03 PM // 19:03

that is awesome advice i hadnt even thought about with target dervish