Curse

DreamWind · May 20, 2008, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

But the Factions/Nightfall new classes and skills were the main PvP reasons to own those two chapters. If you didn't have the new classes/skills you would get pwned by them, that's a pretty good reason to buy them!

Of course thats true. I'm just saying I don't think Anet made the new classes intentionally more powerful for sales. I think Anet released the classes with no idea how overpowered they would be.

Hyper Cutter · May 20, 2008, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I think Anet released the classes with no idea how overpowered they would be.

The Paragon, maybe. The Dervish was nerfed HARD by NF's actual release. I can only assume that the Paragon slipped under the radar due to how damn good dervs originally were...

around · May 20, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

The Paragon, maybe. The Dervish was nerfed HARD by NF's actual release. I can only assume that the Paragon slipped under the radar due to how damn good dervs originally were...

Only because it was completely ridiculous in the preview events. Seriously, it was an instant iwin button.

Hyper Cutter · May 20, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

Only because it was completely ridiculous in the preview events. Seriously, it was an instant iwin button.

Exactly my point. Compared to that, the paragons looked balanced...

DreamWind · May 21, 2008, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

The Paragon, maybe. The Dervish was nerfed HARD by NF's actual release. I can only assume that the Paragon slipped under the radar due to how damn good dervs originally were...

What about ritualists, assassins, and grenth/melandru dervishes? But yea, paragons were probably the most ridiculous though. Like I honestly wonder if Anet tested them at all in PvP before release.

Riotgear · May 21, 2008, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

The Paragon, maybe. The Dervish was nerfed HARD by NF's actual release. I can only assume that the Paragon slipped under the radar due to how damn good dervs originally were...

Energizing Finale got hammered as well, but the class as a whole strikes me as the kind of thing that was a terrible idea they could never quite shitcan because PvE players had invested too much in them.

Akaraxle · May 21, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I think Anet released the classes with no idea how overpowered they would be.

Pretty sure a few people would claim that Anet very much had an idea how overpowered they would be... mainly because those people warned Anet beforehand, if you get my drift.

Free Sigils · May 21, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Remember how long it took for us to incorporate Assassins and Ritualists into regular play? I read an interview with I beleive izzy once where basically he said they released the rits and sins as intentionally underpowered, and slowly cranked them up, to try to keep the meta balanced. For nightfall, they switched it. They cranked em high and worked the way down. The only problem is of course that they never really finished. It makes sense on a player level trying to introduce the professions into the game faster, but they just failed to nerf it properly.

Honestly, I like what Rits and Dervs did to the game. Sins are meh imo, I kind of enjoy shadowsteps, adn the crit buffs even when I am playing prot. But Paragons can go to hell. Please.

Krill · May 22, 2008, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Sigils

Honestly, I like what Rits and Dervs did to the game.

You like the instagib capability of scythes and binding rituals?

The only think I have liked about rits is that it got me playing ranger 90% of the time.

DreamWind · May 22, 2008, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

Pretty sure a few people would claim that Anet very much had an idea how overpowered they would be... mainly because those people warned Anet beforehand, if you get my drift.

If they did know, that is really bad. I'm not convinced anyone INSIDE Anet knew how overpowered they would be though, which could be the scariest thing of all. I can't think of a decent company that would release the clearly ridiculous Paragon and expect me to believe they can run a competitive game properly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Sigils

Honestly, I like what Rits and Dervs did to the game. Sins are meh imo, I kind of enjoy shadowsteps, adn the crit buffs even when I am playing prot. But Paragons can go to hell. Please.

Rit lords were broken. Derv forms were broken (and still are to some extent). Paragons were beyond broken (and still are to some extent). I'm don't know anyone who thinks shadowstepping was (and is) good for the game from a pure PvP mechanics perspective.

Akaraxle · May 22, 2008, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

If they did know, that is really bad. I'm not convinced anyone INSIDE Anet knew how overpowered they would be though, which could be the scariest thing of all. I can't think of a decent company that would release the clearly ridiculous Paragon and expect me to believe they can run a competitive game properly.

Let's put it in another way: do you honestly think that at Anet, the very company that developed their own game, no one implementing those skills realized they would be a little too much - even without their testers telling them?

Here's my conjecture: of course they did. And they probably reported that to their office manager, which in turn perhaps reported to the big bosses. But they were probably told "it's fine, keep going"; or maybe the direction acknowledged the issues but postponed their solving until long after the most fruitful features were taken care of, in the twisted and unfathomable queue of priorities (Soul Reaping one year after, anyone?) that Anet always adhered to for their post-release developing process.

DreamWind · May 22, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

Let's put it in another way: do you honestly think that at Anet, the very company that developed their own game, no one implementing those skills realized they would be a little too much - even without their testers telling them?

Possibly. We have seen a lot of highly questionable balance decisions over the years...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

Here's my conjecture: of course they did. And they probably reported that to their office manager, which in turn perhaps reported to the big bosses. But they were probably told "it's fine, keep going"; or maybe the direction acknowledged the issues but postponed their solving until long after the most fruitful features were taken care of, in the twisted and unfathomable queue of priorities (Soul Reaping one year after, anyone?) that Anet always adhered to for their post-release developing process.

That is a possibility. Your theory is sound, especially the bolded.

LockerLoad · May 29, 2008, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Even worse than Assasin Teleport skills are Rit spirits. Talk about a no skill class. It's like tower rushing in Warcraft(not WoW) just build as many as you can near the enemy and eventually you win.

Aside from blatant imbalance and redundancy the worst bit about the new classes was how they resulted in rewriting many staple skills of the core classes. Take "watch yourself" and "fear me" for example. Watch yourself and fear me were fine before Paragons existed, Now no Warrior would bother to clutter their bar with such utter crap.

erk · May 30, 2008, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Spirt spammers seem to be easily able to maintain way too many spirits at once. Although they don't really get spammed in GvG, they are all too common in most other PvP.

Many Rit spirits probably need a PvP version with a shortened lifetime the eg. Pain, Bloodsong, Agony, Displacement, Preservation, etc. The rule of thumb I would use is the spirts lifetime should be no longer then the recharge on the skill, at the moment many spirits last way longer. eg. Make Bloodsong lifetime 30sec not 30-126 sec.

wilson · May 30, 2008, 06:26 AM // 06:26

I don't think that giving spirits same duration as recharge will do much. Most rits put up spirits of the same type anyway before they die "naturally", killing their own creation, if you like.

Plus, spirits aren't really threatening. They are easyily dealt with.

GourangaPizza · May 30, 2008, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Why nobody mentions Necro's imba SR attribute and their suicide bombing strategy?

Divisor · May 30, 2008, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Soul Reaping has been mentioned already, and the "suicide bombing strategy" has pretty much always been bad, with a few exceptions. (Those being EoE bomb and bugged Cultists Fervor/Shadow Walk bomb)

deya · May 31, 2008, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Guild Wars used to be the best game I've ever played - pre factions that is.

DreamWind · May 31, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by deya

Guild Wars used to be the best game I've ever played - pre factions that is.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

ensoriki · Jun 05, 2008, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Quote:

Did adding the extra classes (with skill types that have no counter) make the job of skill balancing too difficult?

they focused the extra class's mostly in one direction without really trying to diversify them.
Core classes gained new skills each expansion as well but they're easier to fix because they don't have to just focus into one role or play to one style IMO.