Curse

DarkNecrid · May 30, 2008, 09:48 PM // 21:48

HA is basically built in such a way that gimmicks will always wise, because it is built in a way that promotes them.

This will always be the case unless if they overhaul it.

supa tim · May 30, 2008, 09:50 PM // 21:50

any gimmick better than sway

Selket · May 30, 2008, 10:51 PM // 22:51

r/d slashers are so gangster, they turn me on.

sway is a decent build that is run by bad players that you should be rolling over anyway, so who cares?

DreamWind · May 30, 2008, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by supa tim

make that 3 kind of people. Also people who care about HA and dont want a stupid build RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing it up

If you would take Sway out of the HA the Swayers would still play HA no matter what, and other people would come back to HA again.
At least this is what I think

If you care about HA, you realize that there has ALWAYS been a stupid build RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing is up. That is never going to change.

If you take Sway out, I can basically guarantee that the population will decline drastically until the next big fame farming build pops up. There are a lot of people who only go to HA because things like Iway/Sway exist.

DarkNecrid · May 30, 2008, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by supa tim

any gimmick better than sway

Pretty sure Dark Aura/signet of might were way worse than Sway.

Riotgear · May 31, 2008, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Pretty sure Dark Aura/signet of might were way worse than Sway.

There's a pretty big difference between running bug-abusing builds that literally have an "I Win" button, and button-mash gimmicks.

But no, Spiritway wasn't really the worst, that probably goes to Discord heroway, or [ftl]'s Jagged Bones hex stupidity. Go back further and you get pre-nerf Ranger spirit spam and Ether Renewal, which are an order of magnitude worse.

Of course, the fact that things have been worse doesn't mean Spiritway doesn't need to RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Very good points. I just don't see the point of people getting angry about losing to sway though. HA is not the place for you if you are that type of person. Actually, Guild Wars is probably not the game for you if you are that type of person.

"Success in Guild Wars is always the result of player skill", says the sales pitch. I'd assume that means zero-skill team builds should be getting curbstomped, the reality is that there's a pretty big gap in skill between what it takes to run the gimmicks and what it takes to beat it with anything else. I'd call this a problem. How much of a problem it is, and whether or not it's too late to fix it, are another story.

Since I see one of Guild Wars' main problems being its severe barrier to entry, HA in particular, I'm certainly not going to complain if it's looked at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

There are a lot of people who only go to HA because things like Iway/Sway exist.

I'm not sure I'll be shedding any tears for players that are unable to win in PvP because they're terrible.

noneedforclevernames · May 31, 2008, 04:07 AM // 04:07

It can be easily countered with a well coordinated group...so you should have no problems running it!

DarkNecrid · May 31, 2008, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Of course, the fact that things have been worse doesn't mean Spiritway doesn't need to RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO off.

Shitway, not spiritway.

At least I'm pretty sure we're talking about the R/D build here, no?

RavagerOfDreams · May 31, 2008, 05:27 AM // 05:27

dont know whats wrong with it its not really that great tbh

a balanced build whose backline wands the trappers will rape the hell out of sway any day. As for the other gimik builds such as bad sf spikers or bad ritspikers who get raped by sway all i can say is you had it coming.

Riotgear · May 31, 2008, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Shitway, not spiritway.

At least I'm pretty sure we're talking about the R/D build here, no?

Yes, the one where 5 of the 8 people shit spirits of some sort, and is basically just the old Spiritway with R/D scythes instead of R/W thumpers.

Sanghed · May 31, 2008, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Hi.

As a PvE player that does occasionally PvP, I have to throw my 2 cents in here. I started doing HA as a monk. However, it is difficult for me to get into decent groups considering all the experienced players demand at least rank 3, and most r5+.

I decided to do Sway this weekend because it's the only way for me to farm fame quick enough to earn a decent rank to get into decent groups.

I don't understand why people are irritated with cookie-cutter builds such as sway. Maybe you can't beat it? A good balanced group can take out a sway group no prob.

Riotgear · May 31, 2008, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanghed

I don't understand why people are irritated with cookie-cutter builds such as sway. Maybe you can't beat it?

There are two varieties of complaints (read earlier in the thread). Being unable to beat it is part of where one variety stems, but it isn't really the core reason. A good balanced group is going to stomp Spiritway, but mediocre ones are likely to just get steamrolled by it, which makes it difficult to actually learn anything, often resorting to Spiritway itself.

Learning is better facilitated by gradual progress (read: treading over shitty players, not losing to them because they're running something that's a few times more effective than the skill requirement justifies).

"Uneducational" ones like Spiritway basically screw up the learning curve and make it hard to grow out of the gimmick for everybody. At least Legoway provided experience that translated into other builds.

Mr Fizzle · May 31, 2008, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Mainly it takes no skill to run,at all.So its just not right that people that are farming UW over and over 24/7 are getting more fame then players that are at least using their brains with the buttons there pressing.

Randvek · May 31, 2008, 07:45 AM // 07:45

I think noobs running sway isn't a problem at all. When those r8+ sway teams start forming, though, that's a facepalm moment. I mean, seriously, you can't do better than that at r8?

DarkNecrid · May 31, 2008, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Yes, the one where 5 of the 8 people shit spirits of some sort, and is basically just the old Spiritway with R/D scythes instead of R/W thumpers.

Ah I see.

<---- doesn't keep up with, nor really care about HA builds.

toinne · May 31, 2008, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Of Oblivion

C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C /resign

what he says...

it's easy to beat, i don't care

supa tim · May 31, 2008, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanghed

I don't understand why people are irritated with cookie-cutter builds such as sway. Maybe you can't beat it? A good balanced group can take out a sway group no prob.

The term cookie cutter is used to describe anything that is mass produced quickly and of low quality. See cheezy.

Cheezy: lame or dumb

u said it yourself?

Ok now serious:
(lets take rank is all in considderation)
Off the point that i beat sway all the time, most people dont.
basicly, most r5 balanced teams with vent, good coordination etc. get owned by an uncoordinated (no vent etc.) sway.

thats the reason low ranked players stop playing balanced and even quit HA. so it RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs up HA.

we h8 sway.

Grz,

Timmeh

DreamWind · May 31, 2008, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

"Success in Guild Wars is always the result of player skill", says the sales pitch. I'd assume that means zero-skill team builds should be getting curbstomped, the reality is that there's a pretty big gap in skill between what it takes to run the gimmicks and what it takes to beat it with anything else. I'd call this a problem. How much of a problem it is, and whether or not it's too late to fix it, are another story.

Of course it is a problem, but it has been a problem since the beginning of Guild Wars. The sales pitch has never been fully accurate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Since I see one of Guild Wars' main problems being its severe barrier to entry, HA in particular, I'm certainly not going to complain if it's looked at.

This problem is the reason why gimmick builds are king in HA. Things like Iway/Sway are simply player built solutions to Anet built problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

I'm not sure I'll be shedding any tears for players that are unable to win in PvP because they're terrible.

I wouldn't either. The problem becomes when HA is a deadzone due to no groups forming. The HA population is already a fraction what it once was. I can't imagine what it would be like if the gimmicks got nerfed again today.

Red Sand · May 31, 2008, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

People just hate it because it's easy to play and for the most part idiot-proof. So what you get are bad players playing sway, and it hurts the build's reputation.

I like this. In fact, you could say SWAY is such a good team build that it lets the unskilled defeat the skilled. The question we really should ask is why hasn't anyone figured out a powerful counter to it?

supa tim · May 31, 2008, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sand

I like this. In fact, you could say SWAY is such a good team build that it lets the unskilled defeat the skilled. The question we really should ask is why hasn't anyone figured out a powerful counter to it?

with that powerfull counter u get trashed by any other build.