Curse

Edwards · May 30, 2008, 06:17 AM // 06:17

For a brief period, I thought that Tim might know what he was talking about. However, he has now dispelled that notion forever.

People hate sway because it allows terrible players to do much better than they ever should. It has the basic elements of a balanced team, but dumbed down to a level where anybody at all can play it competantly. It's always funny when a sway player tries to play balanced. People who have played exclusively R/D make for terrible warriors people who have only played N/Rt usually can't play a monk bar to save their lives, and people who play trappers don't transition well to most midline roles, exceptions being fire eles and certain paragon builds.

It's so stupidly hard to make mistakes playing sway bars that they beat other teams simply through attrition. They may lose to a better team running a better build many times, but eventually somebody on the better team will mess up and they will lose. That's why sway farms low ranked teams so well. Low ranked players playing other builds make mistakes frequently, simply because they're low ranked. Sways don't make as many mistakes, simply because it's harder for them to.

I also dislike the high ranked swayers. When people are advertising for r7/8+ sway in id1, it annoys me, because where I've made my fame playing a variety of builds, failing over and over until I learned to be a better player, those people took much less time to earn much more fame than me, despite being much worse players. Sure, people will say QQ more, it's a game, play what wins, but I don't want to play a boring, idiot proof bar, I want to play something more interesting. I don't even mind losing, because it's just part of the game. Everyone has to lose before they can start winning, except for sway players. I've played tons of failed balanced builds with friends to gain the experience I need to have what success I enjoy today, whereas a sway player of the same rank as me bypassed the whole process. In a community where you're measured in the eyes of many people by your fame count, excuse me if I don't give those people a "gg" (and besides which, I've never had an enjoyable game against sway anyways).

In case the above came off the wrong way, I'm not saying that I'm a good player, because I know I'm not. As much as I've improved on the way to the rank I hold now, I will probably have twice as much to learn before I'm equal to players a couple ranks ahead of me. I also don't mean to imply that all my fame has come from balanced, because it hasn't. Part of my fame has come from lame builds, as is true with almost anyone. I'm merely saying that I feel that although a sway player may have the same rank as myself or any other non-swayer, they haven't earned it as much as I have.

(Wow, long post. I got carried away.)

Ate of DK · May 30, 2008, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwards

I also dislike the high ranked swayers. When people are advertising for r7/8+ sway in id1, it annoys me, because where I've made my fame playing a variety of builds, failing over and over until I learned to be a better player, those people took much less time to earn much more fame than me, despite being much worse players.

Most people are just playing for fame.

For a change, I really don't mind high ranked sways. My major concern is that people play fair and everybody has a good time. I couldn't care less how much fame I have. I never played with PuGs, only with guild and alliance teams. Sway is pretty much freefame. There aren't many good teams out there atm. Hope I see that mini-ghostly drop for me this weekend.

Morgoth the dark · May 30, 2008, 12:21 PM // 12:21

So... this question should work also for :

What's (was) wrong with :
- IWAY?
-VimWay
-All other lame shit that ends on -way

The answer is... it's damn lame and overabused by low rank players and they get ranked for playing 1 class only. Then a r9-10 player goes to a normal balanced team as a monk and guess what? He sucks so badly that he gets kicked at fist opportunity.
Those builds are not good for overall players ability to play anything except the one and only bar Sway needs.
They may be good at that bar (at 5k+ fame gathered with it, you should be good at 8 skills lol) but they suck at palying all the rest.

I'm not tagging myself as a pro player, but i know the basis for all the professions (maybe 2 or 3 a little bit more that just basis

).
And i expect that players with equal / above my rank can do the same.

supa tim · May 30, 2008, 03:47 PM // 15:47

So by all previous posts quoting me I can now pronounce Guildwars guruforum a "we dont flame the populair person" Board.

Tyla · May 30, 2008, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by supa tim

So by all previous posts quoting me I can now pronounce Guildwars guruforum a "we dont flame the populair person" Board.

No, that's because you calling Divine an Sway scrub was extremely funny because he's actually a gold-caped Monk from the guild dR.

The Way Out · May 30, 2008, 03:51 PM // 15:51

In short, you PvP Nazis leave lower end players no choice but to run lame ass builds to get rank so they can join your teams. Go and ask to be in a group with no rank or a low end rank. You get flamed and mocked. Elitist nubs. I hope every non-rank nub in Guild Wars rolls you all over with Sway or any other gimmick team build out right now.

supa tim · May 30, 2008, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

No, that's because you calling Divine an Sway scrub was extremely funny because he's actually a gold-caped Monk from the guild dR.

Thats exactly what I mean.
I dont care if hes a gold caped monk blabla he was still defending Sway.
And if he was joking then i guess its my bad interpretation.

Grz,

Timmeh

depletion · May 30, 2008, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Way Out

In short, you PvP Nazis leave lower end players no choice but to run lame ass builds to get rank so they can join your teams. Go and ask to be in a group with no rank or a low end rank. You get flamed and mocked. Elitist nubs. I hope every non-rank nub in Guild Wars rolls you all over with Sway or any other gimmick team build out right now.

The usual elitst rant? People who form teams want to win and have players with experience in HA and proof of it. Lame or not, having the title is dirty/stupid proof that you've at least been there before. Nothing new to see here.

The Way Out · May 30, 2008, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by depletion

The usual elitst rant? People who form teams want to win and have players with experience in HA and proof of it. Lame or not, having the title is dirty/stupid proof that you've at least been there before. Nothing new to see here.

You call it a usual elitist rant, however, my point is still proven. I wasn't accepted in HA until I ran bullshit team builds to gain rank. Now everyone kisses my ass and asks me to run balanced with them. Blow me!

Killed u man · May 30, 2008, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishX

So...gold cape monks are Sway scrubs now?

Divine is a good player (Monk), BUT really, common.. Don't even go there, ok?
Look on QQ forums for the REAL reason on how [ dr] got their cape... Ye, ye, it's all conspiracy and this and that, right? ^^

@supa:

Divine is a good player, alot of other people are, and U didn't even understood him correctly he, I think.
In his orginal post, he mentioned the fact ALOT of "mentally challenged" people play sway, thus giving it a bad name. He doesn't play HA that often, he was right and wrong. Yes, fighting sway is even more annoying when U KNOW you're having so much troubles beating/getting ganked by r3+ sways.
Once again, people don't hate sway that much because of the buttonbash nature of the build, because if that were true, once again, people would also hate EVERY para bar known to man, splinter rits, fire eles, migraine mesmers, ...
It's the fact that it's been meta for far to long now.

For most people it's simply not a "build" anymore, but rather a new profession alltogether. It's like: "what are you going to roll?" "A sway ranger" - point proven...
And thus facing it has become a routine, in the negative meaning..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Deathgard

What most people don't know is that Sway was created by Wreck, of IYF. He figured out that Scythe skills are effected by expertise, & he & Icey Dead People

gg to all the high & mighty people that call Sway a noob build, it was created by someone at your skill level if not better.

Rofl... Simply to stupid NOT to quote xD...

It's not a discovery, k? ANY attack skill gets affected by Expertise, and the only reason why noone tried R/D's before, is merely due to the "low"-DPS they have. (However, DPS test ALWAYS showed 1 target DPS, but with the balled up nature of HA AND Splinter weapon + scythe = imba, it actually works somewhat)
When Izzy, once again after smoking alot of homemade canabis, did a skill balance few months ago, he buffed Escape and Pious Assault.
Yes, [IYF] MIGHT have made the r/d sway (The original sway is as old as the Battle Isles pretty much), but it's not like they found a genius synergy or something. They merely put 2 over-buffed skills into an already existing build, in overal only changing 3 bars out of the 8. Worse even, all 3 bars are the same, so in overal, you could call it a "mod", in which he changed 1 bar around from the original build...

I've created some button-bash builds aswell, however it's not something to be too proud off, especially because most people in [IYF] are, and I'm sorry, pretty "below" their rank skillwise... (I tried to say it nice

)

@Edwards: EVERY button bash is like that, it's not a "sway" thing. Isn't a Fire ele or a paragon pressure brought down to the simplest thing U can do in GW? Clicking 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 on recharge? It ADDs to the hate, but it doesn't create it...

@Ate: Yeah, I'm the same way, I don't really care random person X got their rank due to a button-bash. However, when I'm spamming for a r9-10 player to play a custom bar (and most of my builds have these), they can't play it, AT ALL, and they blame me for running a shitty build... I also hate when players can't admit they played shitbuilds for their rank, and behave as if they actually deserve their Rank (*Cough*, Bongo, Ralaj, ...*Cough*).

And as a final note to supa: You should have read better, he wasn't flaming you, so there was no need for you to flame him (swayer). He was in fact agreeing on the fact sway was lame...

I also think this thread is kinda pointless in the way that I can anwser it within 2 lines, leaving the "discussion" kinda empty:

What is wrong with sway?
-It's a brainless buttonbash that allowed "badly" skilled players to beat better skilled players without much trouble.
-It's been "untouched" by Izzy far to long, and people are simply getting fed-up with it, taking out their rage on sway, but most not even realizing it's the lack of skill updates they hate...

supa tim · May 30, 2008, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

1. And as a final note to supa: You should have read better, he wasn't flaming you, so there was no need for you to flame him (swayer). He was in fact agreeing on the fact sway was lame...

2. What is wrong with sway?
-It's a brainless buttonbash that allowed "badly" skilled players to beat better skilled players without much trouble.
-It's been "untouched" by Izzy far to long, and people are simply getting fed-up with it, taking out their rage on sway, but most not even realizing it's the lack of skill updates they hate...

1. When I read something like that about Sway my first impression is: this is a freakin retarded swaynoob, which apperantly he isn't. So I start flaming him for the sake of HA.
Congrats to you for beeing the first person who said this nicely

.

2. I dont hate sway so much because we get beaten by it (because teams im in dont), but the second thing you said I totally agree with. I looks like Anet gave up on HA or something for leaving this build untouched for so long.

Grz,

Timmeh

Riotgear · May 30, 2008, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Once again, people don't hate sway that much because of the buttonbash nature of the build, because if that were true, once again, people would also hate EVERY para bar known to man, splinter rits, fire eles, migraine mesmers, ...

I'm pretty sure none of those are held in particularly high regard.

DreamWind · May 30, 2008, 06:06 PM // 18:06

There are 2 types of people who hate Sway.

1. People who think its noobway and people should use harder builds
2. People who think its boring to play against it over and over

Either way, it is the same whiners going all the way back to Iway (and even before that really). This isn't a new phenomenon. I think #2 type of people are the only ones with legit issues with the build. #1 type of people are usually those idiots who refuse to GG and are completely missing a point. HA has ALWAYS been like that.

One of the biggest problems with Guild Wars (and especially HA) is that there is no middle ground for "harder to play builds". It is basically impossible to pug a balanced build effectively. If you try, you are going to get wiped by Sway a lot of the time, then your pug will disband, thus wasting 2 hours of forming time. You need a guild or friendlist to play anything else. That is something a lot of people may not have.

What would happen if you took Sway out of HA? It would be a deadzone. Same is true for Iway back in the day. Yes Sway players are usually there for stupid reasons (fame farming), but you can blame Anet for putting fame in the game and not the players.

Riotgear · May 30, 2008, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

#1 type of people are usually those idiots who refuse to GG and are completely missing a point. HA has ALWAYS been like that.

The difference comes from whether it's directed at the people exploiting it or the people who allow it to continue (Read: ArenaNet). The first is ridiculous, the second is quite valid.

HA has always had its gimmicks, but ultimately it's helpful to people trying to do run less-degenerate builds to kick the gimmicks down a rung every so often so they can figure things out without getting wiped in 15 seconds by button-mashing.

It's a bit late to address core problems with HA, but that doesn't mean improvements shouldn't be made when possible.

TaCktiX · May 30, 2008, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Way Out

In short, you PvP Nazis leave lower end players no choice but to run lame ass builds to get rank so they can join your teams. Go and ask to be in a group with no rank or a low end rank. You get flamed and mocked. Elitist nubs. I hope every non-rank nub in Guild Wars rolls you all over with Sway or any other gimmick team build out right now.

Guess what: you don't have to have rank to get in a good HA group. If you have skill in a profession, find the builds normally run for that profession, have the equipment, and be ready to sign on vent. I have heard DOZENS of people say they don't care about rank, only player skill. And those people have Rank 6 or higher. We're not elitist, you're just not looking in the right places.

-- Death by Tassels, Rank 5 Infuse that plays Rank 8 Balanced

The Way Out · May 30, 2008, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

Guess what: you don't have to have rank to get in a good HA group. If you have skill in a profession, find the builds normally run for that profession, have the equipment, and be ready to sign on vent. I have heard DOZENS of people say they don't care about rank, only player skill. And those people have Rank 6 or higher. We're not elitist, you're just not looking in the right places.

-- Death by Tassels, Rank 5 Infuse that plays Rank 8 Balanced

How about I log onto my other account and prove you wrong. We can meet ig and test out your theory?

Free Sigils · May 30, 2008, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Yes, [IYF] MIGHT have made the r/d sway (The original sway is as old as the Battle Isles pretty much), but it's not like they found a genius synergy or something. They merely put 2 over-buffed skills into an already existing build, in overal only changing 3 bars out of the 8. Worse even, all 3 bars are the same, so in overal, you could call it a "mod", in which he changed 1 bar around from the original build...

I've created some button-bash builds aswell, however it's not something to be too proud off, especially because most people in [IYF] are, and I'm sorry, pretty "below" their rank skillwise... (I tried to say it nice

)

IYF has never swayed -.-'. They merely created the R/Ds and tossed them into a balance build. More or less a Dual warrior pressure but with R/Ds. When they started winning people stole them and stuck them in Sway. Nothing to do with IYF. They dislike sway as much as the rest...and even more that their R/D is used by everyone.

DreamWind · May 30, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

The difference comes from whether it's directed at the people exploiting it or the people who allow it to continue (Read: ArenaNet). The first is ridiculous, the second is quite valid.

It's a bit late to address core problems with HA, but that doesn't mean improvements shouldn't be made when possible.

Very good points. I just don't see the point of people getting angry about losing to sway though. HA is not the place for you if you are that type of person. Actually, Guild Wars is probably not the game for you if you are that type of person.

supa tim · May 30, 2008, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

There are 2 types of people who hate Sway.

1. People who think its noobway and people should use harder builds
2. People who think its boring to play against it over and over

What would happen if you took Sway out of HA? It would be a deadzone. Same is true for Iway back in the day. Yes Sway players are usually there for stupid reasons (fame farming), but you can blame Anet for putting fame in the game and not the players.

First of all:

make that 3 kind of people. Also people who care about HA and dont want a stupid build RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing it up

If you would take Sway out of the HA the Swayers would still play HA no matter what, and other people would come back to HA again.
At least this is what I think

Tyla · May 30, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

I doubt it.

I myself believe that another gimmick will arise and degenerate it more, but then again, at least it's not the same gimmick yet again.