Curse

Teh Jace · Jul 09, 2008, 02:58 PM // 14:58

The problem is not sig of hum itself but monk bars.

WoH|7x nothing compared to WoH
RC|7x nothing compared to RC

Also the current D/E template is OP and very broken. A warrior has to press frenzy while risking possible dmg and slowely build up. A dervish does'nt rly bother, his DW is automaticaly covered and it rly hurts.

the_deSKtructor · Jul 09, 2008, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

I respect your opinions on most matters but I think you're still falling into the fallacy of if something is easily interruptible, then it's not broken. SoH can still keep WoH and RC locked down to being used once maybe twice every 20 seconds. One normal interrupt only buys you ~20 seconds too...d-shot helps a lot of course, but that assumes you're running a ranger, your ranger is at the stand all the time (not) and the ranger is watching the signet mes like a hawk and doesn't take the bait on fakes. But oh wait...why not run two signet memsers! Where's the balance again?

Then u bring 2 rangers!

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jul 09, 2008, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

I respect your opinions on most matters but I think you're still falling into the fallacy of if something is easily interruptible, then it's not broken. SoH can still keep WoH and RC locked down to being used once maybe twice every 20 seconds.

At 12 inspiration (which is what signet mesmers normally run) Signet of Humility takes 14.2 seconds to recharge, lasts for 13 seconds and takes 2.2 seconds to activate (@9 fastcasting), this means that in an ideal situation with no faking, getting interrupted, using the skill on recharge you can disable an elite skill for 13 out of 16.4 seconds or ~80% of the time.

This looks really good, but of course in an actual match a situation will be far from ideal you will spend a few seconds faking on each cast on average, reducing the uptime to roughly 65-70% at best provided you never get interrupted.

I really don't see what's so problematic with this, a disabled elite is hardly the end of the world and you will almost always get about 3-4 casts off between hum sigs. It's really not much more than a minor nuisance.

Quote:

One normal interrupt only buys you ~20 seconds too...

It doesn't right now, the signet will still get the recharge bonus from MoI despite being interrupted, this is in the process of being fixed however.

Quote:

d-shot helps a lot of course, but that assumes you're running a ranger, your ranger is at the stand all the time (not) and the ranger is watching the signet mes like a hawk and doesn't take the bait on fakes. But oh wait...why not run two signet memsers! Where's the balance again?

You hardly have to babysit the mesmer to stop signet of humility, it's a 2.2s cast without possibility of HCT and with a pretty distinct animation and any team that doesn't bring several hard interrupts, should be punished for this.

Running 2 signet mesmers is just dumb, the main reason it's even worth running one at all is Strength of Honor, the 2nd mesmer could bring something like Holy Wrath, which is laughable at best.

Signet mesmers were problematic when MoI reduced the recharge by 45%, at 29% it's (the interrupt bug aside) perfectly fine.

I really don't get why everyone apparently hates signet mesmers so much but doesn't have a problem with 5 monk builds, enfeebling blood, VoD as a whole...

Just because it's ran on ladder doesn't mean it's good.

DreamWind · Jul 10, 2008, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

I really don't get why everyone apparently hates signet mesmers so much but doesn't have a problem with 5 monk builds, enfeebling blood, VoD as a whole...

Because people don't want to admit that the entire game is broken and needs a complete rehaul (or undoing of the past 2 years), so they instead pick on the "little things" that might actually be changed.

Zuranthium · Jul 10, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Plenty of people run WS Dervishes without even having a signet mesmer

Yeah, they run a P-block Mes.

No, I'm mostly fine with WS though.

~Z

Krill · Jul 10, 2008, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Running 2 signet mesmers is just dumb, the main reason it's even worth running one at all is Strength of Honor, the 2nd mesmer could bring something like Holy Wrath, which is laughable at best.

The MoI nerf did hit signet mesmers pretty hard, while the increased cool down on holy wrath made it pretty much useless.

I'm still seeing a lot of derv smite on the lower end of the ladder and not liking it as a meta though (yes, i'm bad) and when I observe top 100 matches I still see a lot of 1 warrior, 1 wounding striker and 1 signet mesmer. How do top players feel about this and is it balanced? I don't know. The top 10 guilds could probably win most of their games fielding two c space breeze wamos so citing them as an example of real balanced > retarded meta is not a good example.

Signet of rage is still ridiculous frenzy punishment, SoJ and bane signet are still retarded kd fiestas too. Needs work, get it right in July anet.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jul 10, 2008, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

when I observe top 100 matches I still see a lot of 1 warrior, 1 wounding striker and 1 signet mesmer. How do top players feel about this and is it balanced? I don't know.

Conjure + SoH stacking is the problem, it breaks the Dervishes who are without SoH a strong template, but not an overpowered one, with neither conjure nor soh they're really quite mediocre.

Quote:

The top 10 guilds could probably win most of their games fielding two c space breeze wamos so citing them as an example of real balanced > retarded meta is not a good example.

This used to be true in the past, but it's definitely not like that anymore, the gaps between top 20 guilds and top 50-100 guilds usually arent that big and deviating from the 'required' skills for a build too much will definitely hurt even a top team's chances of beating a somewhat lower ranked team.

Quote:

Signet of rage is still ridiculous frenzy punishment, SoJ and bane signet are still retarded kd fiestas too. Needs work, get it right in July anet.

Signet of rage I'll agree with, the damage is a little over the top (cap it at around 100), but my main problem with the skill is that it punishes warriors a lot more than dervishes.

I'd rather see 10..50 damage + another 10..50 damage if the target is attacking or something along those lines.

SoJ and Bane Signet aren't really problem skills imo, although I don't see the point of SoJ doing AoE damage (even if it's a small area).

They're definitely not problematic on signet mesmers, but I think the smiter's boon template is a bit too strong, it can heal, lineback, spike, has AoE for VoD and can bring a party heal and on top of that has a free secondary that can be used for a hard res, enfeebling blood or some other utility skill.

I think Smiter's Boon deserves a small nerf.

Zuranthium · Jul 11, 2008, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Smiter's Boon? That skill is not overpowered at all.

Smite Condi / Hex having massive AoE radius is the problem. Much too strong at VoD.

I would like to see the AoE range decreased to just "adjacent" for both of these skills and their recharge times decreased by 2 seconds (plus a 3/4 cast for Smite Condi). Makes the template much more of a healthy skirmish character rather than something that is used to farm NPCs.

Yes, Signet of Rage is dumb too.

Also, Rend Enchantments and Gaze of Contempt. These need to go back to their old recharges (10 seconds longer). They'd still be perfectly useful.

~Z

Legendary Shiz · Jul 11, 2008, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Sig of Rage is one of my favorite skills for blowing up warriors when I play a sig mes. I agree that the damage should be toned down a bit, however with the abundant of dervishes in the meta right now your sig rage isn't always going to be able to be pushed to its abuse-able limits.

It should be toned down a bit, I agree. But it should definitely stay viable.

PS: Five monk builds make me want to /cut

Krill · Jul 11, 2008, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

Also, Rend Enchantments and Gaze of Contempt. These need to go back to their old recharges (10 seconds longer). They'd still be perfectly useful.

Or bump rend to 10 energy...these are the only skills to cut through derv echants stacks. The biggest abuse I have seen of rend lately is Mistral Edge's orders rspike with 3 copies of rend to take down every prot.