Curse

NoXiFy · Jun 06, 2008, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Mark of PRotection, remove the skills diables part, 10 sec duration, 25sec recharge.

DarkNecrid · Jun 06, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoXiFy

Mark of PRotection, remove the skills diables part, 10 sec duration, 25sec recharge.

LOL

i am so running Arcane Mimicry, Arcane Echo, and taking a mesmer with Echo. Invincibility with that

YEAH, mass invincibility GOGOGO

Give me some Blessed Aura and im gdlk.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jun 06, 2008, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Signet of mystic speed is bothering me a lot recently. Perma 33% speed boost with an easily met condition that can stack with a attack speed boost is over powered imo.

Snow Bunny · Jun 06, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

Your tone sux mate, go back and get an understanding of forum etiquette, look up the psychology of trying to discredit other posters opinions, it's an interesting read.

If stripping off multiple Monk enchants from a protted up target below 50% health was as critical as you implied, then a non-elite skills such as Test of Faith, would be in popular use, but other things on the bar are considered more important, and simple enchant removals suffice for frequent spikes.

Where I see an improved Rend being useful is the potential for stripping stacked Dervish enchants as a means of reducing pressure, not Monk prots in a spike. You don't even need to have 5-8 enchants removed, 3 would be sufficient as a trade off. With many teams running multiple Wounding Strike Dervishes, Gaze of Contempt is too expensive and slow to keep casting on several targets, you need something cheap with a shorter recharge, the trade off that Rend is not good on multiple Monk enchants is fair enough, use something else, or you try and keep away from Monk enchants as best you can. I see no reason why the damage from removing Monk enchants can't be increased as a trade of from reducing the recharge time. That would discourage it's use in stripping spike prots.

Because you can get around the damage easily - you can prot the actual Render to prevent the damage - problem solved.

Enchantments, at least with monks, are the output of a monk's skill. Monks are centered around active battlefield awareness, thus preprotting.

If you make complete enchant stripping possible every ten seconds, it means that it turns into making your spike very clean vs. WoH+Infuse spam, and you eliminate any notion of skill.

Buffing recharge on Rend Enchantments is a terrible idea, and if you can't see why, then you're terrible at this game.

Also - spike builds in GvG aren't supposed to be a promoted playstyle. That's all enchant stripping does for you.

Mr Fizzle · Jun 06, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by horta

Signet of Humility: 1/4c; 20r.

changed funtionality to:

Signet. Interrupt target foe's action. If that action was an Elite Skill, that foe's elite skill is disabled for 1...13 seconds.

making it an interrupt would promote skillfull players to use better than regular players.

The 3/4s cast Elite Skills are still viable to be humiliated.

Do you remember this thing called dshot?

Problem. · Jun 06, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

Your tone sux mate, go back and get an understanding of forum etiquette, look up the psychology of trying to discredit other posters opinions, it's an interesting read.

If stripping off multiple Monk enchants from a protted up target below 50% health was as critical as you implied, then a non-elite skills such as Test of Faith, would be in popular use, but other things on the bar are considered more important, and simple enchant removals suffice for frequent spikes.

Where I see an improved Rend being useful is the potential for stripping stacked Dervish enchants as a means of reducing pressure, not Monk prots in a spike. You don't even need to have 5-8 enchants removed, 3 would be sufficient as a trade off. With many teams running multiple Wounding Strike Dervishes, Gaze of Contempt is too expensive and slow to keep casting on several targets, you need something cheap with a shorter recharge, the trade off that Rend is not good on multiple Monk enchants is fair enough, use something else, or you try and keep away from Monk enchants as best you can. I see no reason why the damage from removing Monk enchants can't be increased as a trade of from reducing the recharge time. That would discourage it's use in stripping spike prots.

Wow you are completely wrong its not even funny. Your thinking is so simple and one-dimensional its absurd. You really think people are going to bring Rend Enchantments just to strip Dervishes of enchantments? No thats completely ridiculous. Sure it might be used that way, but thats not going to be the primary reason they are going to bring the skill. The primary reason people would bring Rend Enchantments on a 10 sec recharge is to spike. Rend Enchantments is already strong enough, why would you want to break the skill?

Also, I do believe that Rend Enchantments is the most popular enchantment removal skill that can be said to "remove all enchantments."

You think an increase in damage will stop people from using the skill to remove monk enchants on spikes? Are you serious? The whole purpose in GvG is to kill the Guild Lord, but you have an opposing 8 people and NPCs to get there. Unless Rend Enchantments would insta-gib the person using it, when they are removing prots for a spike, there will be no hesitation to use it at all. One WoH, and omg, the player is back to full health. And umm....if you didn't know, killing people in GvG is a great way to reduce pressure. And that is exactly what Rend Enchantments would do, help kill faster.

All that would happen, is that you would still see this Dervish/Smite running around more, with Rend Enchantments packed on at least one character.

And you clearly have no understanding of balance. You dont balance this game by making the counters stronger, you balance this game by getting to the source of the issue, and you change that.

Also, about discrediting your opinion. I really dont need to do that, as you do it for me by posting such absurd skill proposals. What you say about being able to strip the Derv's enchantments makes sense, but you thinking way beyond one-dimensional at that point.

One-dimensional thinking is the reason some of the things A-Net has tried to do with the game have failed (e.g ViO.)

Honestly, if you dont know what you're talking about, stop speaking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Because you can get around the damage easily - you can prot the actual Render to prevent the damage - problem solved.

Enchantments, at least with monks, are the output of a monk's skill. Monks are centered around active battlefield awareness, thus preprotting.

If you make complete enchant stripping possible every ten seconds, it means that it turns into making your spike very clean vs. WoH+Infuse spam, and you eliminate any notion of skill.

Buffing recharge on Rend Enchantments is a terrible idea, and if you can't see why, then you're terrible at this game.

Also - spike builds in GvG aren't supposed to be a promoted playstyle. That's all enchant stripping does for you.

Lol. He beat me to the punch. I dont even know who Snow Bunny is, but he clearly has a better understanding of the game than you erk....

*edit* Im surprised Mitch hasn't said anything to you yet. Lol.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jun 06, 2008, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

Your tone sux mate, go back and get an understanding of forum etiquette, look up the psychology of trying to discredit other posters opinions, it's an interesting read.

Nothing wrong with calling people stupid when they are in fact being stupid.

Quote:

If stripping off multiple Monk enchants from a protted up target below 50% health was as critical as you implied, then a non-elite skills such as Test of Faith, would be in popular use, but other things on the bar are considered more important, and simple enchant removals suffice for frequent spikes.

Did you just compare Rend Enchantments to Test of Faith? Are you mentally retarded? Rend Enchantments is a spell range spell that removes 5+ (in pretty much all circumstances all enchantments) from someone, costs 5 energy and is on a 20s cycle, Test of Faith is a touch ranged spell that removes enchantments off of a foe below 50% health and also costs 10 energy.

The only reason below 50% was even mentioned because Gaze of Contempt doesn't work on targets below 50%.

Think before you post.

Quote:

Where I see an improved Rend being useful is the potential for stripping stacked Dervish enchants as a means of reducing pressure, not Monk prots in a spike.

Improving Rend would make it better for both of those things, take a wild guess what it's mainly gonna be used for..

Quote:

I see no reason why the damage from removing Monk enchants can't be increased as a trade of from reducing the recharge time. That would discourage it's use in stripping spike prots.

Not really, a spike team is not gonna care if a midliner takes some random damage if it means getting a spike through.

Seriously, play the game before you're going to argue about balance, or listen to people that do play.

Problem. · Jun 06, 2008, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nature Loves Me

I know, just sounded like it to me. I see your point also. Dervs are a problem. Can hit 100+ damage with AoE :X That's what made me fall in love with 'em a long time ago ^^.

Quick question though...

If WS' recharge was increased and/or DW became on top, would the use of RC be any less than it is now?

And with SoH...if that was "fixed" in someway, would that now mean RC's can keep the team clean of all lethal conditions whenever they come?

They are just honest questions, because it could lead to the point where conditions become a minority like hexes. <---Quick though ^^ I gotta go to schoool *runs off*

If DW became the top condition, it would allow the monk complimenting the RC, most likely the WoH, to dismiss off the deep wound. That alone would relieve a fair amount of pressure, especially when RC gets humility trained.

Snow Bunny · Jun 06, 2008, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Problem.

If DW became the top condition, it would allow the monk complimenting the RC, most likely the WoH, to dismiss off the deep wound. That alone would relieve a fair amount of pressure, especially when RC gets humility trained.

Precisely. Dismissing through bleeding to get to Deep Wound is a nightmare, especially with the fact that the derv can throw Deep Wound around faster than a WoH can clean it up.

C2K · Jun 06, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Also - spike builds in GvG aren't supposed to be a promoted playstyle. That's all enchant stripping does for you.

I'm just curious. How do you know that spike builds are not supposed to be a promoted playstyle in the GvG format? Is there a link to a mission statement or a blog out there that Izzy confirms this?

Tab · Jun 06, 2008, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Precisely. Dismissing through bleeding to get to Deep Wound is a nightmare, especially with the fact that the derv can throw Deep Wound around faster than a WoH can clean it up.

^. bleeding covering dw is dumb.

horseradish · Jun 06, 2008, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nature Loves Me

If WS' recharge was increased and/or DW became on top, would the use of RC be any less than it is now?

RC was used before the current meta because conditions are so powerful. The skill would survive.

Quote:

And with SoH...if that was "fixed" in someway, would that now mean RC's can keep the team clean of all lethal conditions whenever they come?

Yes. Lethal meaning blind, DW, Cracked Armor, and the like. One shouldn't RC on a bleeding or poisoned target isn't unless they're covering the lethal conditions.

DreamWind · Jun 07, 2008, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Problem.

And you clearly have no understanding of balance. You dont balance this game by making the counters stronger, you balance this game by getting to the source of the issue, and you change that.

The issue is that a lot of people understand balance, but don't understand how Anet works for some reason. Anet will NEVER get to the source of the issue. The source is entire professions and mechanics in themselves which will never be changed.

DarkNecrid · Jun 07, 2008, 02:13 AM // 02:13

WS needs to be changed to be Bleeding -> Deep Wound, because it's the only freaking skill in the game that doesn't apply its conditions in the order it is written.

Zuranthium · Jun 07, 2008, 04:04 AM // 04:04

I agree with that Wounding Strike change and it's the only thing about the Derv template that needs to be nerfed. The perma-speed boosts don't bother me. Dervs don't have disruption like Warriors do, their armor is lower, and they depend on enchantments. They need their other perks to do anything useful in comparison.

The Mesmers are the bigger problem. Dervsmite would be nothing without Signet of Humility. That skill overpowered by itself. A non-Elite ability that shuts down an Elite for 0 energy? Change the duration to 4 + (Attribute / 2). Then you wouldn't be able to perma-lock an Elite on a Sig Mes. I feel like that would be enough - if you can get RC off a couple times every 15 seconds and then have Dismiss be able to actually to pull the Deep Wound from Wounding Strike, it's a fair playing field. Although, Signet of Distraction probably needs to be looked at too. Being able to Power Lock WoH/RC for 0 energy and with only 6 in Dom isn't really fair.

As for non-Dervsmite nerfs:

1. Enfeebling Blood - move to the Blood line and decrease the AoE to adjacent. It's too good on a Curses bar and too strong at VoD in general.

2. Foul Feast - gives back too much energy on WoD bar. It's essentially a second Elite. I agree with what Mitch suggested - cap the energy gain at +2 per condi (at 8 Soul Reaping) and only give energy back for the first two conditions that got removed.

------

I like the meta right now a lot. Splitting is fun and there are a ton of different things that can be played.

~Z

the_deSKtructor · Jun 07, 2008, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Problem.

If DW became the top condition, it would allow the monk complimenting the RC, most likely the WoH, to dismiss off the deep wound. That alone would relieve a fair amount of pressure, especially when RC gets humility trained.

Don't forget of rangers with apply poison. In that case even the DW becomes the top condition, it would be still covered by the poison.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jun 07, 2008, 06:44 AM // 06:44

you are joking right?

urania · Jun 07, 2008, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Wail of Doom is a lot less accessible, it doesnt prevent casting either.

Shroud of Silence was only used in a very specific build anyway.

well....feel free to burn your energy healing for 0 with df and about 30 with woh/zb. it must be very effective. Dont you understand that there's no point in trying to cast things while under WoD. In TA the thing is rly broken and pretty much unstoppable, if used on well-timed spikes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

A/D telespike is a pretty big problem right now. Shadow steps have been becoming an issue repeatedly ever since the initial buffs, between Shadow Prison abuse, lolsins, Melandru telespike, two MATs worth of sinsplit, and now the A/D telespike shit.

isnt it funny that a/d (pressure as well as spike based) was part of the most frequent TA gimmick (the 2 monk build, ofc) for months now and yet, everyone always feels the need for the crap to expand over to either ha or (especially) gvg before they even give it a look.

really sweet =)

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jun 07, 2008, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

well....feel free to burn your energy healing for 0 with df and about 30 with woh/zb. it must be very effective. Dont you understand that there's no point in trying to cast things while under WoD. In TA the thing is rly broken and pretty much unstoppable, if used on well-timed spikes.

My point was that you can still remove it, use prots (although they wouldn't last as long generally), use skills like return, remove conditions, etc.

Of course you're not going to want to spam through it, but it's not comparable to shroud of silence.

I agree that it's broken though, and not just in TA, give it a cast time and an actual cost (a little more than 1 energy) additionally a slightly longer duration combined with a longer recharge (1..6s 15r) would make the skill a lot more skill based as well as more counterable.

Quote:

isnt it funny that a/d (pressure as well as spike based) was part of the most frequent TA gimmick (the 2 monk build, ofc) for months now and yet, everyone always feels the need for the crap to expand over to either ha or (especially) gvg before they even give it a look.

I really don't care too much about TA, it's always been full of broken builds, the game should be balanced primarily around GvG, if TA has big balance issues that can be fixed without hurting GvG I don't mind but I really don't see much of a problem with Scythe A/Ds any more, a Rend Enchantments pretty much destroys the entire build, though I guess Way of the Master could take a small nerf and Critical Defenses could get it's PvP version obliterated.

the_deSKtructor · Jun 07, 2008, 12:28 PM // 12:28

She is just saying that sometimes fixing the crap in TA will prevent it from being a problem in the other formats. For example, TA was full of signet A/Mos, yet nobody cared of them till they moved into GvG.