Curse

Div · Jul 15, 2008, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

This is a problem that will get more and more prominent, as more people are leaving this sad scene every day. I'm merely suggesting that in this upcomming update, HA gets 1/10th of the attention that GvG always does, and that would already fix ALOT of problems in the sheithole called HA...

It's sad, but true. HA gets 1/10th the attention that GvG gets, but if you look at the whole picture, GvG gets 1/1000th the attention PvE gets. Seen as merely a stepping stone to the ultimate destination of PvPers, Anet has neglected HA in favor of GvG, and that's going to hurt the loyal HAers who don't move on to GvG.

shoogi · Jul 15, 2008, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

And U totally missed the point of this thread.

It's not the fact that I'm pissed that my R9+ pugs Monks suck, I'm pissed about the fact that R9+ Monks suck.

No, you're pissed of rspike. Stop bitching about rspike, even though you're point is valid and rspike needs a nerf, it's annoying that you derail any thread in this forum into a flamewar about rspike.

And you are welcome to try HA monking without channeling. good luck.

NightOwl · Jul 15, 2008, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Killed U Man, it's downright funny to see you whining about this sort of thing, when you're clearly contributing to the cause of it. I can't decide if you're purely trolling, or actually trying to be serious though. Just on the off chance that you're attempting to be serious, I'll try to spell it out to you.

R0 monk goes to HA, tries to get a group. Nothing for an hour or two, then finally a gimmick unranked let's him in. WOOHOO! One, two attempts, then the gimmick fails, and falls apart. Being an intelligent player, and wanting to do well, he does some reading and considers what he experianced. Monk learns something, makes some adjustments, tries again another day. More of the same, can't get squat for a decent team, after an hour or two of hoping and wishing, he finally gets into another gimmick, and repeat. After a rank or three, he gets sick of waiting, and starts his own gimmick group with a couple other gimmick build players he's met, since that's all he's able to get, instead of decent players with a reasonably balanced build and some experiance. Fast forward 9-12 ranks later, monk is now 100% used to how the gimmicks run and how to monk for them, able to do a competent job monking for them in a situation he's grown comfortable with. He sees "r10 balanced lfm, need monk" and decides to join. He's not used to how to monk for this non-gimmick build, having spent months and months on gimmicks. He tries, though, but gets a "omfgn00b" and a /punt after a match or two.

By refusing the lower ranked players, and refusing to help promote low ranked balanced builds, YOU (and others like you) are part of the problem with these monks not being more capable in handling the job of monking for anything except gimmicks. Teach a man to fish, and let him become a master fisherman, and he'll fish well. Then send him off with his fishing pole to go hunt a mountain lion and he's going to get eaten.

To nobody in particular: How many r0-3 players would absolutely JUMP at seeing "3-4 r10+ players taking 4-5 r0-r3 players for HA with (insert build of your choice). Might not take the hall, but we'll give it an hour or two and show ya the ropes!". Sort of like what [KiSu] does with GvG. If you want better players in HA, take a hand in it. If you want people used to running gimmicks, then by all means, come here and complain that they're not good at running anything else, and continue to let them run gimmicks.

LifesRestorer · Jul 15, 2008, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Don't talk to borat like he's a moron. Unlike you, he actually knows what he's talking about. Sad thing is, you're probably doing the same sort of rank discrimination bullshit or whatever it is you're arguing about with PvE. LF r10 ursans or GTFO

Free Sigils · Jul 15, 2008, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Night0wl the problem is for every one unranked player who wants to overcome the Gimmick mentality and expand into real HA for something other than their el tigre there are a dozen (yes real statistic). Its so hard to wade through the sludge of players who think sway or rspike is the best shit ever. Those of us who do try get tired of dealing with people who just won't listen, or won't learn.

And you can say a lot of shit about how my guild is bad and we can only run "OP gimmicks" But the face is we do take in low ranked players who will listen, who will learn and thats why we were a rank 2-10 guild now we're like 5-10 or something I don't really remember.

I agree that helping new players is important. But not every player out there wants to do anything other than leech, and its a pain to us to have to sort through them.

If you really want to break free of your rank tier there is 1 simple step.

Make friends. Friends who u regularly play with will have a synergy that will simply make it easier for you to win. Also if they're higher rank than you - impress them. Not in a dumb way like "I remember this one time I won halls by myself with one hand tied behind my back..." (We don't care lol), but by typing coherently, not being afraid to ask questions, being cool and calm on vent. Make them want you to play with them again.

Its hell until you do, but when you finally break free of the pack it will be worth it. You do however, sound like a decently intelligent person you really want to try to break free, pm me in game sometime I'll see if we can't you a shot.

Chaos Rofl Copter · Jul 15, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

Solving the issue: IV needs a hit. Currently it allows a character to spec 12/12 in healing and utility attributes and still gives it the power to do 90 spike damage in the space of 1 second. Move it to Death, Blood or Curses.

Rspike Damage: We have all known that this has been an issue for too long. The damage of rspike is simply insane. there are many ways to stop this. Nerf energy cost, cast time or recharge of forked. Nerf damage of glass arrows or brutal weapon. Make brutal not stack with preps. Make damage buffs only raise the damage up to a certain level when stacked.

To be completely and thoroughly honest, I don't think these ranger spikes are a problem.... It's so easy to prot if you scream at your team and tell them to spread out so you see which direction their pointing. Same with IV spike.. only its much easier, because you dont even need to watch the field, just red bar prot. ( I do understand that rspike does tons of damage, even when you prot a target, and SB is active during the entire spike, the target still drops to 50-60% health,

Plus, if you play HA and think your good, you should be running something balanced and be able to shut down spike builds so there should be no complaining(excempt SF spike since its so crappy it works and rolls everything brainless t space spamming).

Trinity Fire Angel · Jul 16, 2008, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Problem is they are never online. Yes, everyone left the game. My former guilds [NaNa] and [BLOW] have disbanded (I was leader) and everyone left this sad scene of so-called PvP.

actually, lots and lots and lots of people have left the game. even people who still haven;t finished everything have left to play games with their friends who have left the game. Many have gone to WoW, many have gone to new MMO & other games with PVP or some have just gone a bit loopy trying to catch up to the top players

on a side note; were you in Power Rangers when they joined ZoS? man, i played with your guild a few times in HA and a few of them Pugged with us in GVG a few times in the alliance... are Power Rangers still going???

back on topic; well... maybe rank has nothing to do with skill. after all it;s just a measure for how often you have played in HA.

I am Rank 1 HA and i can still monk (and win) in halls in a balanced team.
I am Rank 1 and i can still monk and win a rated GvG.
I am Rank 1 and maybe some people just fail at playing in a T E A M.

I have played in teams when we have failed many times and simply changing 1 person in the team has made a complete difference. 1 ele!!!!! Obviously 1 ele that knew how to play. It made all the difference.

1 thing i think i need to make mention of, and it has been said 100000 times, monking can be really tough in an environment when you have 100,000 OP builds. Really, There should be no one build that can spike that hard. Spiking should be a complex process that brings a person down but can also be protected against as well. I think that constant nerfage of things like B-Surge and other active defence skills has caused an issue. Perhaps people should start bringing [blinding surge] or [blinding flash] or [blurred vision] to protect against r-spike. [ward of stability] and [aura of stability] to protect against rit-spike. etc etc. it;s true tho... we need to tone down builds that are clearly overpowered that require only 3 people in the spike to do all the damage. maybe then ou might see more people coming back to HA and might get some skill back.

There will always be gimmiks. but lets not make the gimmicks that good. I would like ANet to balance the game so that, like GvG, a balanced team will win every time. Then we might start seeing good monks return to HA. Right now they all play GVG or have left the game.

Seriously. Lets nerf some OP build first and then lets work on the crappy monks. i mean.... only sadomasochists would play monk in a HA PUG team these days.

Killed u man · Jul 16, 2008, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trinity Fire Angel

""

Not gonna go into this again

Rspike is OP, if U fail to see it needs a nerf, well it's obvious you're just a fanboi defending your only fame-farm. (Not directed to you Trinity

)

On-topic:

Like I said, nerfing the OP builds WILL bring back the "keeping the team alive" to the Monks, automaticly!

mrmango · Jul 16, 2008, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Not gonna go into this again

Rspike is OP, if U fail to see it needs a nerf, well it's obvious you're just a fanboi defending your only fame-farm. (Not directed to you Trinity

)

So this is one of those high ranked people that sucks. Cool, I haven't seen many of them.

jimmyboveto · Jul 16, 2008, 04:08 AM // 04:08

When it comes to getting a pug healer in arenas, I would honestly go for a resto rit instead of a monk. Because rits don't rely on enchantments for their heals and such, it makes it harder for them to get screwed. Also, energy can be less of an issue if they take something like OoS (my personal fav). There is no way weapon spells can be stripped, so if melee goes after the rit, they can just put on WoW and relax. Mesmers and Rangers are still present problems, but on a whole, resto rits are just more friendly to a less experienced player.

shoogi · Jul 16, 2008, 09:11 AM // 09:11

But why do you need a good monk when there is no death penalty in halls? No DP allows bad monks to hold. In every match they have to watch 4~ people, if it's the runners, the ghostly, themselves or the pd mes, and the other 4 can pretty much die freely with little effect on the match, they get ressed with no dp and keep doing whatever they did before. 2 monks for 4 people? yeah, crappy monks can handle that.
All HA's problems are a result of broken mechanics.

Chaos Rofl Copter · Jul 16, 2008, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Not gonna go into this again

Rspike is OP, if U fail to see it needs a nerf, well it's obvious you're just a fanboi defending your only fame-farm. (Not directed to you Trinity

)

On-topic:

Like I said, nerfing the OP builds WILL bring back the "keeping the team alive" to the Monks, automaticly!

In all my time of playing, I have only tried it once, and I didn't get much fame with it; like 50 or so, just 1 or 2 runs.

I don't depend on rspike for fame, I depend on hexway with biggie

kekeke.
Anyways, If you can't keep your team alive while facing an rspike get a new midline or maybe your not as good as you think you are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

But why do you need a good monk when there is no death penalty in halls? No DP allows bad monks to hold. In every match they have to watch 4~ people, if it's the runners, the ghostly, themselves or the pd mes, and the other 4 can pretty much die freely with little effect on the match, they get ressed with no dp and keep doing whatever they did before. 2 monks for 4 people? yeah, crappy monks can handle that.
All HA's problems are a result of broken mechanics.

See the problem with crappy monks is they can't watch 4, 3, 2 people or even themselves. They just red bar monk.

NightOwl · Jul 16, 2008, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Sigils

Night0wl the problem is for every one unranked player who wants to overcome the Gimmick mentality and expand into real HA for something other than their el tigre there are a dozen (yes real statistic). Its so hard to wade through the sludge of players who think sway or rspike is the best shit ever. Those of us who do try get tired of dealing with people who just won't listen, or won't learn.

And you can say a lot of shit about how my guild is bad and we can only run "OP gimmicks" But the face is we do take in low ranked players who will listen, who will learn and thats why we were a rank 2-10 guild now we're like 5-10 or something I don't really remember.

I agree that helping new players is important. But not every player out there wants to do anything other than leech, and its a pain to us to have to sort through them.

If you really want to break free of your rank tier there is 1 simple step.

Make friends. Friends who u regularly play with will have a synergy that will simply make it easier for you to win. Also if they're higher rank than you - impress them. Not in a dumb way like "I remember this one time I won halls by myself with one hand tied behind my back..." (We don't care lol), but by typing coherently, not being afraid to ask questions, being cool and calm on vent. Make them want you to play with them again.

Its hell until you do, but when you finally break free of the pack it will be worth it. You do however, sound like a decently intelligent person you really want to try to break free, pm me in game sometime I'll see if we can't you a shot.

Thanks for the offer, but I have no interest in improving my rank in HA. I had plenty of the standing around, and trying to get groups, and going through the "omg they still suck at rank X" stuff. I'll HA with my guild/alliance, and that's about it for me, as I'm partial to gvg anyhow. Just stumbled across this thread since I was looking into what HA had going on, with guild/alliance in mind.

I don't think I've ever made disparaging comments about anybody's guild though.

My point still stands. If rank 90235230832 monks are still crappy due to having run (gimmick build here) for all those ranks, try to find some willing players at lower ranks that aren't used to running (whatever) and help 'em along before it gets to that point. Alternatively, continue complaining about high rank people not being able to exist outside of (whatever), which was more or less the point of the thread, and about all that some people contributed to it, which I was refuting.

shoogi · Jul 16, 2008, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos Rofl Copter

See the problem with crappy monks is they can't watch 4, 3, 2 people or even themselves. They just red bar monk.

True, but the way Halls work now rewards red bar monking.

Grugio · Jul 19, 2008, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

True, but the way Halls work now rewards red bar monking.

No really. Have fun red bar protting against Ranger Spike and Rit spike.

Adela Aegis · Jul 22, 2008, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightOwl
To nobody in particular: How many r0-3 players would absolutely JUMP at seeing "3-4 r10+ players taking 4-5 r0-r3 players for HA with (insert build of your choice). Might not take the hall, but we'll give it an hour or two and show ya the ropes!". Sort of like what [KiSu] does with GvG. If you want better players in HA, take a hand in it. If you want people used to running gimmicks, then by all means, come here and complain that they're not good at running anything else, and continue to let them run gimmicks.

How in god's name did I miss this gem? Thank you, Night Owl, I needed to read a joke like this and have a good laugh.

Arya Nibelrund · Jul 23, 2008, 08:34 AM // 08:34

I don't see why high-ranked players should take unranked to teach them how to play...... Nobody teached me and I never ran anything lame when I started to pug HA. If you're a decent player you will make your way thru HA even not relying on lame builds and without experienced players showing you what to do. Sure it will take a bit of time and you will get a lot of frustration at the beginning but it's part of the game. Don't believe that r10+ balanced pugs get fame easily as last time I pugged we struggled to get past fetid (and it was some guild group). Losing is part of the game but believe me getting ranks with rspike, IV spike or thumpway will give you nothing (not even fun). If you want to learn there are SO many threads here filled with tips, just take 20 mins of your time and go read them; you don't need charity from DoM to take you in their team and tell you exactly what to do step by step. If you go in, you're supposed to know what to do in every map and how to react to any build you face. Then all you need is experience to turn theory into practice and you can do that even in your unranked balanced group. If you keep losing forever maybe you're not as good as you thought.... I do not think that everyone should be r12 in this game, some players are just not cut for HA, that's a fact. Just be happy to win some matches every once in a while and be proud of yourself for not being a lamer.
Otherwise, go join a IV spike or r-spike guild and show everyone how low you can go to get some fame. And be prepared to get flamed and laughed at every time you log in (cause that's what those people deserve). I can give you the IGN of so many people who lamed their r10/11/12 and are SO freaking bad that they will never get any run with us or any other decent guild; is that what you really want?

Cass · Jul 23, 2008, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Basically you can count the number of decent players in HA on one hand. This is because HA is an endless parade of shallow gimmicks. Nobody wants to play a balanced build anymore, as in the end it just takes too much effort to win compared to gimmick farming. Even if you do play something interesting, you just end up perpetually fighting lame teams. And you get trolled by all the farmers as well. I've seen so many people ridiculing Leeloof, for example, while all I've seen him play were interesting builds. That should earn some credit, but apparently not.
So why play HA anymore? It's boring and it gives no satisfactory challenge to beat the gimmick du jour time after time.

I remember seeing threads complaining about the demise of HA, ironically also started by this "Borat" guy. It's a joke that a rabid ritspiker like him is being taken seriously. It's precisely because of farmers like him that HA is dead, and that there are no good monks left.

Monk Gsb · Jul 23, 2008, 01:53 PM // 13:53

its called FL borat, and if all ur friends have quit, do the same cause ur QQing is so damn annoying.

Frank Dudenstein · Jul 23, 2008, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightOwl

By refusing the lower ranked players, and refusing to help promote low ranked balanced builds, YOU (and others like you) are part of the problem with these monks not being more capable in handling the job of monking for anything except gimmicks. Teach a man to fish, and let him become a master fisherman, and he'll fish well. Then send him off with his fishing pole to go hunt a mountain lion and he's going to get eaten.

Here's the problem with your theory: teaching a low-ranked 'learning' monk in a balanced group means you are going to lose. ALOT. In UNDERWORLD.

I'm sorry, but most high ranked people don't want to do that ... it is most definitely NOT fun.

We've already gone through our trails .. we've lived that pain and have no desire to do it again. Sorry but that's the way it is.