Curse

Teutonic Paladin · Jul 24, 2008, 02:30 AM // 02:30

I realize this is the Guild Battle forum but does anyone know if this change affects Hero Battles as well?

Lycan Nibbler · Jul 24, 2008, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

the gvg population is not large enough to support a division system.

My original thought was to say under 1k or top 6 guilds competing (whichever was larger) but thought that might be overly complex.

I think from the guru contest, there are guilds willing to play, but from personal experience, getting rolled over by a top 100 guild is no fun (often along with the nasty comments that go with it).

Anyway, just my thoguhts on an alternative that was better imo than whats been implemented.

romO · Jul 24, 2008, 03:14 AM // 03:14

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive/ladder/default.php

That's the last page of the ladder (r981-r1000).

To be top 1000, you need to have played and won ONE game. I get the feeling that people not capable of winning a single game on ladder are not going to be doing well in ATs either.

Lykan · Jul 24, 2008, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by HackingHippie712

personally, i think this is complete bullshit...my guild didnt afk the tourneys but we arent top 1k either due to letting less experienced people play and get more into the game, i do agree that they need to do something about the afk guilds, but i dont think this is how it should be done

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertalen

I also think this is complete bullshit. I was looking forward to playing in these and saving for FoW on my PvP Mesmer. D: But no, because our guilds rating is currently 970 something due to losses early before we knew what we were doing, we now will not recieve TRP.

GvG is about looking good and money now??

Really if your playing GvG for the Rps you shouldnt be there, go farm ectos if you wanna look good..

ZKeys messed people up.

Div · Jul 24, 2008, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Could've just gotten rid of completion rewards, but nope. They had to completely change a system that was working.

I D E L E T E D I · Jul 24, 2008, 03:47 AM // 03:47

silvertalen said PvP Mesmer not PvE.

and for the record i agree that sth had to be changed just dont think this is the right way to encourage newer players

Tearz1993 · Jul 24, 2008, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Good fix. ANet is probably trying to convince guilds off the ladder that they should work harder to get onto it. Most of the people in this thread are complaining because it isn't easy to get reward points (because people who aren't on the ladder really deserve PvP rewards?), when really they should just focus on making top 1k instead.

tigros · Jul 24, 2008, 07:44 AM // 07:44

In a way, this is a good fix because it discourages guilds tanking their rating and then blasting theoretically higher ranked guilds, just because they can. It's also good because it kills the afk guilds that enter ATs just for the reward points. This might make these guilds fight their way back up on the ladder just to get the rewards from future ATs (and this would be a good thing, because it would make the ladder more interesting).

However, this also hits active guilds that could get in ATs for the experience they get playing with higher ranked guilds, but are not eligible for rewards anymore, if they're not on the ladder. And there are a lot of decent guilds just below the 1000 rating mark.

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

To be top 1000, you need to have played and won ONE game. I get the feeling that people not capable of winning a single game on ladder are not going to be doing well in ATs either.

Tommy, that's not quite correct. You know very well that the win/lose might look like 351/349 and still that guild could be out of top 1000.

Rank Name Tag Territory Rating Wins Losses QPs
1000th S C U D S T O R M BooM Europe 1001 49 19 0
(1000th guild atm on the ladder)

For example, Virtual Love [kiSu] has around 700 matches played, almost half of them being wins. Being an entry level mentoring guild, it's not really expected for it to be on the ladder (and is not, but it's also not that far away), but if they want to enter ATs to practice and stuff, there's no material motivation for them to perform except the game and learning experience.

moko · Jul 24, 2008, 07:53 AM // 07:53

i think it's a very good change

first, let's look at

"Tournament REWARD points"

so..they're meant to be rewards, FOR DOING SOMETHING, POSSIBLY BEING NOT TERRIBLE AT THIS GAME. if you are in a bad guild abusing the system and not intersted in PvP anyways, THEN GO AWAY I DON'T CARE IF YOU GET FREAKING REWARDS.

secondly, you can STILL ENTER THE GODDAMN AT. so for all of you saying 'we play AT with people to get better' THERE YOU GO.

sure, might be less rewarding, but IF YOU DO GOOD (with low rating) you get such a HUGE rating win anyways, it will be a one time deal that you are out of range. and seriously, rank 1000 is like nothing as already pointed out. win one game it's gg.

this is a really good solution, everyone who is crying either doesn't care about PvP (in which case you need to GTFO), or wants RP only (gtfo too) or is too bad and doesn't want to improve (that is not ANETs fault if you are terrible & lazy) or is a leecher (GTFO).

summary; GTFO.

honestly, why do you even bother, you got TWO weeks time (TWO weeks) to get your 14 days (if you are going to be semi serious about GvG) before you can AT. that is PLENTY of time to get at least enough experience and rating to get your RP. sure it might ruin your easy rewards for doing nothing but that wasn't the point of it AT ALL.

DarkNecrid · Jul 24, 2008, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Bad fix. It harms actual players. It doesn't matter if it "works" in the sense that it targets afkers, it affects actual players and that is bad.

Better fix would have just been removing the 15 TRP completion points, times 15 x number of participants, split it between the top 3 guilds in the AT. ie if 10 guilds registed, it would split 150 TRP among the top 3 guilds in a 65/25/10% layout.

less likely for an AFK guild to get the rewards now, benefits active players (they still get TRP for wins), etc. It's win win.

Probably not the best fix, but a hell of a lot better than this. Just ruining a working system.

EDIT:
Moko it doesn't work that way. There is actually a surprising amount of influx of PvErs going to PvP right now from what I've seen, and you and I both know these PvErs think in a material aspect.

Lycan Nibbler · Jul 24, 2008, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by moko

"Tournament REWARD points"

Then remove them for ALL guilds, does a rank 999 guild being there the whole tourny qualify any more than a rank 1,001 guild? NO!
Also if you WIN a match in an AT and are over rank 1,000 you do not get any rewards either. How is THAT a fair reward?

Just an update, the latest AT had 10 guilds, 4 in the top 1,000 - the rest over 3k(I am guessing that most of the others didnt know about the update yet).

moko · Jul 24, 2008, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

EDIT:
Moko it doesn't work that way. There is actually a surprising amount of influx of PvErs going to PvP right now from what I've seen, and you and I both know these PvErs think in a material aspect.

i havn't noticed, but if our tournament actually got the PvE players interested in PvP and ATs, then it truely is a bad idea. but i was just judging from my past experiences of guilds i've seen in the ATs.

if that really is the case, they need to remove the 15 additional RP for competing.

Quote:

Then remove them for ALL guilds, does a rank 999 guild being there the whole tourny qualify any more than a rank 1,001 guild? NO!
Also if you WIN a match in an AT and are over rank 1,000 you do not get any rewards either. How is THAT a fair reward?

well i don't like the "play all games" as "reward" thing at all, i just didn't make it clear cause it annoyed me to see these views when it seemed to be all about RP only as always. i'm sure a lot would cry if Izzy would just remove the 15 RP..or add them to top 25% too, or do anything so you might possible not get them.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jul 24, 2008, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Bad fix. It harms actual players.

No it doesn't, anyone who isn't completely braindead and actually tries to win will have 1000+ rating anyway.

It's not the most elegant fix, but it should get the job done.

You just got tomahawked · Jul 24, 2008, 08:47 AM // 08:47

WOW
SRSLY
STFU
GTFO OF MY ATS IF YOURE NOT TOP 1k

FrAnt1c² · Jul 24, 2008, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

the gvg population is not large enough to support a division system.

But it would encourage lower ranked guilds to start playing as they wont always face higher ranked opponents and thus get rolled everytime.
For example highest division top 1-500, second 500-1000 guilds ( to start with ), third rank 1000-5000 guilds, etc...
in this way it will also be easier for starting gvg guilds to learn the game mechanics in gvg, as unrated matches are bs imo...

Cass · Jul 24, 2008, 09:16 AM // 09:16

A good change, albeit not so elegant.

Those AFK guys actually made a lot of gp from their lame practice. I believe you get 5rp for just finishing the AT (losing all). Running 6 accounts (as I have seen someone do), that is 6 keys for one AT (30K?), provided you lose all. Get a bye or forfeit win or win vs another AFK and you get more.
Because of the gains, more and more people began doing it to the point where it was pretty silly. Good riddance.

For ambitious sub-1000 players: Play enough ladder games to get better. Play on a smurf guild if you fear your inexperience will tank your main guild beyond hope of recovery. Make a new guild and win one game. There, the AT will now give you your reward points.

RotteN · Jul 24, 2008, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Simply removing the reward points for completing wouldve been enough realy.

However, its still an ok fix to get rid of the afk guilds.

Zabe · Jul 24, 2008, 09:51 AM // 09:51

No more free wins ;<

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Drops Az

The reason being :- Just last week, there were two AT's that contained 4 and 5 (respectively) 2 of the guilds resigned after the first match in the AT leaving 3 guilds to compete (thus meaning 1 of 3 had to wait 30 minutes to compete). The 4 that entered wouldnt have had an AT at all.
You may say that will change now the afk guilds wont be there, however the first AT I competed in contained 5 guilds, 1 of them being an "afk" guild (this was before it became popular). Yes, the weekend AT's may be competitive, but the weekday/night ones will now turn into RP farming for high ranked guilds.
Also if you are a rank 900 guild, would you dare to play an AT knowing you will likely lose most if not all?

I think you are American. Because All the evening AT's in euro times still contain few really active top guilds playing, especially on the start of the week when the AT's are bit later. And are contained with ~20-30 guilds, despite the fact that around 10-20 of those are AFK guilds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Drops Az

Then remove them for ALL guilds, does a rank 999 guild being there the whole tourny qualify any more than a rank 1,001 guild? NO!
Also if you WIN a match in an AT and are over rank 1,000 you do not get any rewards either. How is THAT a fair reward?

Just an update, the latest AT had 10 guilds, 4 in the top 1,000 - the rest over 3k(I am guessing that most of the others didnt know about the update yet).

You sound pretty much a guy who doesnt play AT's, or is a guy who has 8 computers and does AFK guilding. The point is, that there is very few guilds that are over rank of 1000, and aren't AFK ones. And as Moko said, its Tournament REWARD Points. Not Tournament SYSTEM ABUSING REWARD Points.

deya · Jul 24, 2008, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Stop whining seriously, if you're below rank 1000 you don't deserve any REWARD. And if manage to do well in AT's you should quickly climb above rank 1000.

fowlero · Jul 24, 2008, 10:33 AM // 10:33

As has been said, there are very few guilds that compete in AT's that are not on the ladder that are actually playing (seriously) and not afking/pissing about.

If you want to play them to "get better" this isn't stopping you.

Plus it's barely hard to get onto the ladder.