Curse

Bowstring Badass · Jul 14, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52

[email protected] the shattering assault chain.

To the OP if your going to nerf skills actually make sure some of them aren't broken... RaO is useless with just one thumper. I do agree with the shattering assault I really do it is somewhat broken.

And if your going to nerf skills isn't it time for a buff to skills that barely see the light of day? Honestly [reapers sweep] needs a buff. The v50% needs to go bye bye and lower the damage to +30 and make the recharge to 10.

kostolomac · Jul 14, 2008, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divine Slaya

[Signet of Midnight] - Increase recharge to 15 seconds. Decrease blind duration to 10 seconds. Increase activation time to 1 second.

Way to destroy an elite , a 15 sec recharge is fine , the lower duration would just kill it.

Bowstring Badass · Jul 14, 2008, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

Way to destroy an elite , a 15 sec recharge is fine , the lower duration would just kill it.

Perma blind in a 4v4 arena? Go play a melee char vs this you = goddamnitsonof************. But seriously it needs to be killed. But not to uselessness. 10 second duration with a 15 sec recharge would actually balance this skill for 4v4 arenas.

Hundbert · Jul 14, 2008, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Agree with urania that grasping is godly expecially when dealing with rao.
Agree with moko that gimmicks based on death magic fail.

Lol @ squall. Yes soon we will see warriors running around with rampage as one. Just wait and see

Also. I don't think anyone enjoys playing vs the dual som build in ta. To the people defending som: stop pretending you like the skill. No one likes it but still so many of you abuse it.
It's just like rao another skill that destroys ta.

Tyla · Jul 14, 2008, 07:20 PM // 19:20

I agree with Bowstring. Had a kill count game prolonged to 30 minutes with 2 Warriors practically permablinded the entire game. D-Chopped SoM twice though so I was kinda happy.

Bowstring Badass · Jul 14, 2008, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I agree with Bowstring. Had a kill count game prolonged to 30 minutes with 2 Warriors practically permablinded the entire game. D-Chopped SoM twice though so I was kinda happy.

I will admit this skill is imba as hell. I even used it in RA few times. But your lucky to dchop it.

As for [wail of doom] (inde needs to update the gwbbcode on here) fix this skill please. It is useful on just about anyone monks, warriors, paras anyone.

As for the golden fox,wild,shat combo the recharge on those skills could be nerfed to 10 maybe 12 to still be useful but not overpowered.

Escape itself needs a 20 second recharge and end upon attack. BYE BYE sway and /wait for next gimmick.

[rending touch] doesn't see enough play aside from sway. Its a great skill I might even be a lamer and run it on my axe war later instead of shock.

C2K · Jul 14, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Wanna nerf Shattering Assault combo?

Make it so Shattering Assault can't critical hit. Then the build runs out of energy.

Barkeep · Jul 14, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Meh, I'l be serious for a moment. Just hate seeing how some people react. Ok, so maybe you wont be able to win 50 games anymore if your build gets fixed and just spamming 1, 2, 3 doesnt work anymore to auto-win against bad, average or unlucky (we just got countered) teams. There will always be other overpowered lame builds... finding em is half the fun eh?

Untill then, I hear you can still farm trolls on normal mode. On hard mode they have heal sig now.. yeah, they do everything to make this game hard for you... I know

I pretty much agree with most skills on your list, although I don't really think defile defenses should be nerfed. P-bond is still a powerful option, and it's actually stronger than defile in certain pressure builds. Our necro feels sad every time he has to put a defile defenses on the warrior. At least p-bond adds a bit to the pressure and gives you a nice heal at the end. Defile defenses does nothing half of the time, just wasting 5 energy to cover something important..

Some other skills on your list I do not really have problems with are defile flesh and rigor mortis. Both are effective as hexes should be, but they are interruptable and have a decent recharge.

As opposed to what everybody is thinking, I do not actually think signet of midnight is the big issue in TA atm. The problem is that everybody relies on FF to remove the conditions. The balanced I used to run had plague touch on the warrior, mend touch on the ranger and mend condition and mend touch on the monk. Try diversioning all condition removal in that build and you need one quite skilled mesmer. Currently you just blind the ranger and the warrior, chain diversion and backfire on the necro and you're done. (ok, I simplified it a bit but thats the gist of it)

An obvious reaction to this could be.. if that old balanced was so much better against those gimmicks, why not run that then..

Well, basically you'll get drained by another balanced team that does use FF in a mirror match. Unlike foul feast, mend condition and plague touch does not give you back energy. Also, as you can see plague touch/mend touch/mend condition/mend touch are quite a few skillslots for something that can also be done with just FF/plague sending.

So in my very humble opinion, foul feast is the reason for all these very annoying matches against the new gimmicks. Fixing that will also force our good friends the gimmick users to change their builds.

Obviously also Wail of Doom needs to be nerfed. It may look as if monks are handling it ok at the moment (certain balanced matches end up in a draw). But this is only because of ridiculous defensive play, and monk bars that are setup specifically to deal with WoD (shield bash).

last but not least.. rangers without bows should be pointed and laughed at.

Bowstring Badass · Jul 14, 2008, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2K

Wanna nerf Shattering Assault combo?

Make it so Shattering Assault can't critical hit. Then the build runs out of energy.

Run zealous daggers and auto attack for 5 seconds? lol Seriously assassins have one of the best e-managements ever. Honestly crit strikes is imba (don't lie it is) the low end of damage of daggers somewhat balance this out, but critical strikes combined with high end damage weapons = tons of damage in a short amount of time. Even without getting criticals in attack chain just auto attack for 5 seconds and G FREAKING G you have enough energy for a combo.

Honestly if anet wants a balanced game they need to A) make skills more appealing for use in PvP or B) o wait no other option.

As for the sig of midnight in TA barkeep you are seriously mistaken. The only way to beat that build is to have a build just to beat it. You basically have to run [ignorance] or [rust]+[complicate] to even disable it long enough to kill something with 1 melee. If I can't mash frenzy and hit stuff because of permablind there is something wrong. Honestly [blinding flash] can be used to perma blind but it can be interrupted by more means.

C2K · Jul 14, 2008, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

Run zealous daggers and auto attack for 5 seconds? lol Seriously assassins have one of the best e-managements ever. Honestly crit strikes is imba (don't lie it is) the low end of damage of daggers somewhat balance this out, but critical strikes combined with high end damage weapons = tons of damage in a short amount of time. Even without getting criticals in attack chain just auto attack for 5 seconds and G FREAKING G you have enough energy for a combo.

Honestly if anet wants a balanced game they need to A) make skills more appealing for use in PvP or B) o wait no other option.

Considering you can get away with running Sundering or Vampiric Daggers with the Shattering Assault combo, if they have to stay in Zealous to do it, so be it.

Tyla · Jul 14, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2K

Wanna nerf Shattering Assault combo?

Make it so Shattering Assault can't critical hit. Then the build runs out of energy.

I believe just fixing the bug would go alot further. It should be dead on what it states. I spy no +damage in its description.

Riotgear · Jul 14, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Isn't the problem with Shattering Assault more related to being able to keep Assassin's Remedy and Critical Defenses up forever making them extremely difficult to lineback?

Bowstring Badass · Jul 14, 2008, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Isn't the problem with Shattering Assault more related to being able to keep Assassin's Remedy and Critical Defenses up forever making them extremely difficult to lineback?

Yes and no. You pwn the crit defenses with a mesmer [shatter enchant] then 1234 him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2K

Considering you can get away with running Sundering or Vampiric Daggers with the Shattering Assault combo, if they have to stay in Zealous to do it, so be it.

WHY THE HELL ARE YOU USING SUNDERING ON DAGGERS? ARE YOU STUPID? Seriously go find that thread that compares vampiric and sundering it explains why it is useless on daggers I think. You should have 3 dif daggers on your weapon sets
ebon/fiery/icy/lightning, zealous, and vamp. Then you should have another 3 sets of daggers in your inventory incase you get dped. They should be the same mods but with +5 energy instead of 15^50 carrying both never hurts.

Also isn't the damage from shattering assault effected by armor? Last time I used it I hit for like 20 damage.

moko · Jul 14, 2008, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hundbert

Also. I don't think anyone enjoys playing vs the dual som build in ta.

nobody enjoys playing VERSUS it, nobody enjoys playing WITH it.

Quote:

At c2k WHY THE HELL ARE YOU USING SUNDERING ON DAGGERS? ARE YOU STUPID?

i think he's just making a point. don't get too off topic please.

also shattering assault trains so much, it has TONS of time to regen energy.

Bowstring Badass · Jul 14, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by moko

i think he's just making a point. don't get too off topic please.

also shattering assault trains so much, it has TONS of time to regen energy.

Good point. But being able to train in TA is just bad. Being able to perma blind with 1 signet is bad. The touch part about the skill is doesnt even affect it because A) your monk is getting pounded and the melee didn't focus on you or B) the melee goes right for you.

Honestly Critical Defenses itself has needed a reworking of the skill since well forever. Infablock is bad. Although it is easily countered.

the_deSKtructor · Jul 14, 2008, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep

As opposed to what everybody is thinking, I do not actually think signet of midnight is the big issue in TA atm. The problem is that everybody relies on FF to remove the conditions. The balanced I used to run had plague touch on the warrior, mend touch on the ranger and mend condition and mend touch on the monk. Try diversioning all condition removal in that build and you need one quite skilled mesmer. Currently you just blind the ranger and the warrior, chain diversion and backfire on the necro and you're done. (ok, I simplified it a bit but thats the gist of it)

You are dictating 4 skill slots to deal with a single skill (and EDA too, ok), i can't see how you can consider signet of midnight fine.

Barkeep · Jul 14, 2008, 08:58 PM // 20:58

It's 4 skills to deal with conditions in general. It was how balanced dealt with conditions pre-FF. Signet of Midnight was rarely ever used back then.

Admittedly, plague touch on the warrior was put there to counter EDA, but it did a good job giving back bleeding and DW and poison to the other team as well.

I am just stating how TA was before and after the buff on FF. It was not signet of midnight or diversion that changed, it was the way that balanced deals with conditions that changed.

Edit: I am not saying SoM is balanced, not defending that it should stay as it is. However, I reckon if FF got reverted, SoM would be less of a problem.

Bowstring Badass · Jul 14, 2008, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_deSKtructor

You are dictating 4 skill slots to deal with a single skill (and EDA too, ok), i can't see how you can consider signet of midnight fine.

He is obviously bad. But EDA and SoM are just retardedly broken.

Hundbert · Jul 14, 2008, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

He is obviously bad. But EDA and SoM are just retardedly broken.

Squall is saying the present balanced teams rely 100% on foul feast to cope with conditions.
This also turns out to be a big weakness vs the som teams. Diversion on ff and it's usually gg.

Who are you to say squall/soul is bad?
Can we please try and keep this thread free from insults so maybe moko doesn't close it immediately

<3 soul :P

Quote:

nobody enjoys playing VERSUS it, nobody enjoys playing WITH it.

Promise you don't run it now that double glad is over

Div · Jul 14, 2008, 10:04 PM // 22:04

The biggest problem in balancing TA is that, first, Anet has to actually balance the game.

When you get around that biggest obstacle, you start looking at GW as a whole, and find that the biggest competition is in the 8-player games (GvG, HA, most PvE). Undoubtedly, it means the game will be balanced around that. This means things affecting the party like heal party and paragon shouts are going to be much weaker in a 4v4 setting. It also means single target shutdown like WoD and SA are going to be much stronger.

With one monk and no real splitting option, it means hex overload is going to do really well too. Same with a lot of condi overload degen builds. The biggest thing that Anet looks for (if they ever actually look for anything), is how will these changes that make 4v4 balanced affect 8v8 settings? Will toning these OP 4v4 skills mean that it goes from average to useless in 8v8? If it does, then it probably won't get touched much. It's a shame, but that's what I would be considering if I was game balancing for GW.

However, all that is just a theory. And it's not even as good a theory as the dartboard one.