Curse

the_deSKtructor · Aug 22, 2008, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

I'd rather have a broken skill balanced instead of a stupid ragenerf.

It's better to ragenerf a skill obviously broken while thinking how to balance it instaed of not touch it at all till a proper fix will come into izzy's mind. And stop defending smiter's boon, srsly, it ruined every single PvP format.

C2K · Aug 22, 2008, 09:21 AM // 09:21

I guess Izzy ran into those Triple Smite teams in TA this past week. Poor Smiter's Boon lol.

And to those crying about how Izzy destroyed SB, cheer up. Maybe he needs a few weeks/months to balance the skill, whereas the monthly is next week.

Skyros · Aug 22, 2008, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_deSKtructor

It's better to ragenerf a skill obviously broken while thinking how to balance it instaed of not touch it at all till a proper fix will come into izzy's mind. And stop defending smiter's boon, srsly, it ruined every single PvP format.

IF you think smiteway is gone because they nerfed Smiter's boon... ur ill-informed. Only gimmics used the divine favor bonus abuse to keep their parties alive (RaO Smiteway in GvG).

You still have [skill]Smite Condition[/skill], [skill]Smite Hex[/skill], [skill]Signet of removal[/skill], and [skill]empathic removal[/skill]

the_deSKtructor · Aug 22, 2008, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyros

Only gimmics used the divine favor bonus abuse to keep their parties alive (RaO Smiteway in GvG).

And RaO Smiteway in TA. I also saw some other gimmicks relying on smiters boon in HA too. Really, if it killed all those gimmicks than there's no reason to QQ about the nerf, don't you think?

Krill · Aug 22, 2008, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_deSKtructor

And stop defending smiter's boon, srsly, it ruined every single PvP format.

Really don't think smite monks are done, it will be altered to use Divine Boon for builds that relied on the bonus from SB. If you do the math comparing SB to DB, it (did) cost 5e to maintain SB for 36s (assuming you cast from a 20% staff) and it cost 12e to maintain DB over the same period of time with no renewal cost, if it's not removed obviously. DB also heals for slightly more and works with any monk spell. Hardly seems like a game over scenario to me, just hitting your castigation signets offsets the cost of DB. I think most everyone agrees the strength of the smite template is the AoE effect of smite hex and condition, direct damage of all smite damage, decent healing and a variety of choices with elites depending on the team build....not SB.

Smoke Nightvogue · Aug 22, 2008, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Let's just wait a few weeks until the balance team takes its time to rework the PvP version of the skill.

The main reason of the nerf was this build, mostly because it allowed mediocre teams to play in top 200 without putting any actual effort, I mean, how playing with 4 heroes deserves you a spot in top GvG?

the_deSKtructor · Aug 22, 2008, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

Really don't think smite monks are done, it will be altered to use Divine Boon for builds that relied on the bonus from SB. If you do the math comparing SB to DB, it (did) cost 5e to maintain SB for 36s (assuming you cast from a 20% staff) and it cost 12e to maintain DB over the same period of time with no renewal cost, if it's not removed obviously. DB also heals for slightly more and works with any monk spell. Hardly seems like a game over scenario to me, just hitting your castigation signets offsets the cost of DB. I think most everyone agrees the strength of the smite template is the AoE effect of smite hex and condition, direct damage of all smite damage, decent healing and a variety of choices with elites depending on the team build....not SB.

But ppl could run both earlier (and some did). Also, don't forget that DB also makes you lose 2 energy whenever you cast a spell, so i'm not so sure that they will be able to keep up with the energy that easily. They could still run OoB, but that takes out the elite and the secondary slot at least.

Krill · Aug 22, 2008, 03:39 PM // 15:39

I suppose that would make a difference for the 4 smiter GvG build and 3 smiter TA build that relies on constant skill spamming, but GvG builds with 1 monk smiter can still easily use DB, or no boon at all as Skyros mentioned.

FoxBat · Aug 22, 2008, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Boonsmite (DB+SB) was a borderline build that no-one really played in PvP, except me in ABs. Now why on earth are they going to play the far weaker DB-only version?

Smiters might not be done, but 2-3+ of them in one team are, you aren't going to get the efficient heals and damage in one package anymore.

some guy · Aug 23, 2008, 12:25 AM // 00:25

overkill anyone?

-Lotus- · Aug 23, 2008, 07:36 AM // 07:36

this change is almost offensive. I payed for this game, and by extension I payed for someone to balance it. I did NOT pay for someone to delete skills.

Teh Jace · Aug 23, 2008, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

this change is almost offensive. I payed for this game, and by extension I payed for someone to balance it. I did NOT pay for someone to delete skills.

To be honest I would like to see this happen to more skills than just boon. This game must get rid of all brainless spamming builds.

Axel Zinfandel · Aug 23, 2008, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Jace

To be honest I would like to see this happen to more skills than just boon. This game must get rid of all brainless spamming builds.

No,no wrong. The solution is to fix the skills causing the problems in these builds, not ragenerf them into oblivion. If anyone give me an honest to god decent build using this new "skill" then I will be surprized.

Teh Jace · Aug 23, 2008, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

No,no wrong. The solution is to fix the skills causing the problems in these builds, not ragenerf them into oblivion. If anyone give me an honest to god decent build using this new "skill" then I will be surprized.

Wrong, the solution is to ragenerf them into oblivion. I would prefer to delete them completely. U simply can't balance the game with so many skills to be rly competitive.
The ideal solution would be to completely delete 70% of the currect skills and make the rest multifunctional. Then we can maybe call gw a competitive game and pvp title something u can be rly proud of.

Hundbert · Aug 23, 2008, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Agree with teh jace skills that just lead to degenerate gameplay has no place in this game.

But smiter's boon is pretty useful in pve expecially in undead dungeons. That's probably why it wasn't deleted from the game.

I consider this to change ta the most. Now the dual monk teams lost alot of healing power and the games probably don't drag on for the full 8 minutes for a possible draw anymore.

Cheers izzy. Respect

glountz · Aug 23, 2008, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_deSKtructor

It's better to ragenerf a skill obviously broken while thinking how to balance it instaed of not touch it at all till a proper fix will come into izzy's mind. And stop defending smiter's boon, srsly, it ruined every single PvP format.

Stop thinking about me defending SB. I already stated SB and smite bars were OP in other threads.
Ragenerf is complete amateurism. But they don't care, hey, they have their salary at the end of the month. Putting it the same way as DB, -2 energy/spell, was a solution (between 100,000,000,000,000,000 others).
You want to go in limited skill format? Yeah? Then base all AT's on Snowball and Dragon arena. Everyone has limited skillbars, perfect balance, end of story.

EDIT: On purpose, TA builds based on smite are beatable. M/R smite, M/G prot and 2 rao or whatever will be replaced by M/G prot, Rit with weapons, and 2 offensive characters. We actually won a lot in TA using one WoX rit and one M/G.

ceolstan · Aug 23, 2008, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Well, the dev update notes did say that the SB nerf was meant to remove it from the PvP game, where it was definitely overpowered.

1. It cost only 5 e. It was spammable. It wasn't an elite.
2. It boosted the smiter's bar without any kind of downside. Smiters had Smite Condition, Smite Hex, Reversal of Damage. These have been on TA bars before, but against hex and condition heavy teams, they didn't work quite as well due to the recharge of Smite Hex and Smite Condition. Thus, TA smiters were accompanied by heal monks or heal/prot hybrids. With SB, though, smiters got significantly better heals via Divine Favor. There was no reason NOT to bring SB and every reason to do so.
3. The elite slot was still open. This meant that smiters had a lot of options to boost hex and condition removal at no downside.

I think that the skill had to be nerfed out of the PvP game at this point, though I hope it's temporary and that the skill becomes rebalanced. Leipzig, PAX, and the mAT are all coming up, and the cost of leaving SB in the game was greater than nerfing the PvP skill into oblivion. Hopefully, once September comes, it may be possible to find a way to rebalance the skill so that it can fit on a bar without being totally overpowered: increase cast (2 seconds--becomes interruptable or divertable), move to elite status, set energy at 10, some combination of the above.

--ceolstan

Apok Omen · Aug 23, 2008, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Problem is, no matter how they try to balance it, as long as smite monks run SB, its still overpowered.

-If they increase energy cost, theyll just spam Casti Sig more or use OoB.

-If they increase cast time, theyll just hide and hope for a lucky 40/40 cast, and interrupts against them would be wasted since there are far more important skills to interrupt.

-If they decrease duration and/or increase recharge, again they will hope for 40/40 cast.

-If they add -2e loss to every cast, see option 1.

Face it, as long as it buffs support smiters, they will be overly dominate: Damage Dealers, Mitigators, and Removal that can run YAA!, SoJ, SpellBreaker, Balth Pend, Empy Removal or even Incoming! and Tease.

It needed to die... in PvP sense, anyway.

glountz · Aug 23, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

Problem is, no matter how they try to balance it, as long as smite monks run SB, its still overpowered.

-If they increase energy cost, theyll just spam Casti Sig more or use OoB.

[snip]

-If they add -2e loss to every cast, see option 1.

Then to your opinion Divine boon is perfectly playable (-2 energy/spell) and so boon smite bars will see play. Just have to cast castigation signet more.

O wai-

notrich · Aug 23, 2008, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Jace

Wrong, the solution is to ragenerf them into oblivion. I would prefer to delete them completely. U simply can't balance the game with so many skills to be rly competitive.
The ideal solution would be to completely delete 70% of the currect skills and make the rest multifunctional. Then we can maybe call gw a competitive game and pvp title something u can be rly proud of.

yeah! - pvp should only allow core skills!

which smiley face is appropriate to indicate sarcasm?