Curse

Cale Roughstar · Aug 31, 2008, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Enought to kick rawr, who had 6 wins in play-offs as I recall correctly, out the mAT...

Sorry, it must have slipped my mind. I forgot that every build that beats rawr is imba.

Quote:

And those are still bad people running it. I won't even start on what would happen if I get 8 people together, and start farming champs with Rspike... (As in, a good caller -strat wise-)

I was almost taking your post seriously, until you threw this in there. Just how good do you think you are?

You say that you are the best caller in the game, yet you come here and bitch about a build that you can't beat through sheer power, here is a piece of advice, beat it through tactics! Since everyone else is terribad compared to your tactics, make them change theirs! Since they are terribad, they will make mistakes! Even top20 GvG callers will make mistakes since they are so terribad! Once they make a mistake, that is when you hit them. I am not going to spell out for you how to beat an rspike, you are too good for my help.

Sure, I'll say it! Rspike is an extremely powereful build! It brings to the table almost unparalleled spiking power, along with solid attributes in all other categories. However, the pedastal that it seems to be placed on is almost comedic in its extent. It does not have championship snares, it lacks running power, and while its interrupts are reasonably strong, it has a merely average defence. If they find themselves against a monk who knows how to prot effectively against r-spike (of which there must be so few, since everyone is terribad), the buck stops there. If it was so obscenely overpowered, it would tear GANK a new one, blow through TV's counters and hold halls through 4 hours and multiple ganks. In reality the only halls map that it has a clear advantage on is King of The Hill and is then merely average on the rest. Rspike may seem like a beast up front, but on closer examination, it has a soft underbelly.

The secret to the success of super high end rspikes is not the build, but the players. If you take any group of good players, have them play togeather for upwards of 6 months on the same build they will become highly proficient at it and unless you are prepared, they will make you look bad. It doesn't matter the build, it could be Balanced, Ritspike, Legoway, IWAY for petes sake! They know the ins and outs of every map, every other build, and the tactics required to win for every combination.

The secret to the power behind rspike is not the super 1337 damage offered by bows, but in the several power-ups given by the non ranger characters of the team. Try interrupting OoV, the spikes seem a lot less deadly. Take down FW, more time to prot spike. Put Vocal Minority on the paragons, rangers are quite unlikely to crit now! I have said it before and I will say it again. The power comes from team wide power-ups and synergy. When you disrupt that (which is all too easy) you turn a spike that will knock rawr out of the tourney into an extrordinarily average spike.

Killed u man · Aug 31, 2008, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cale Roughstar

*

Thats why R3+ Rspikes are spiking us down clean (Through shield in harm on a 70 AL target) after the second spike (Cry the first).

"It's not build, it's the players", nuff said... -Rspikers lol-

It doesn't have much snares? It doesn't have running power? It doesn't have much defence?

Lol, I REALLY don't know what build you're looking at, but the last time I checked, an Rspike can easily pack (And please, STOP with the: "It's a weak build", you're only ridiculing yourself in showing HOW FEW you actually know of GW)

[Ward against Foes]
[Ward against Foes]
[Grasping Earth]
[Grasping Earth]
[Distracting Shot]
[Distracting Shot]
[Savage Shot]
[Savage Shot]
[Savage Shot]
[Defensive Anthem]
["Make Haste!"] (At 12+ Command, more than balanced teams can invest into it)
["Fall back!"]
[Hex Breaker]
[Hex Breaker]
[Vital Weapon]
[Water Trident]

+

3 Monks....

Yes, no utility or holding power whatsoever, WHAT was I thinking...

tyrant rex · Aug 31, 2008, 06:05 PM // 18:05

speaking of the mat did dm win it with rspike? no they didnt also dm is made of up of alot of top 20 players so you could expect them to do well also did you look at some of the crap rawr ran lol panic mes /withering aura on a war lol

Chaos Rofl Copter · Aug 31, 2008, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrant rex

speaking of the mat did dm win it with rspike? no they didnt also dm is made of up of alot of top 20 players so you could expect them to do well also did you look at some of the crap rawr ran lol panic mes /withering aura on a war lol

Withering aura is pro for backlining ;o

Cale Roughstar · Aug 31, 2008, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Lol, I REALLY don't know what build you're looking at, but the last time I checked, an Rspike can easily pack (And please, STOP with the: "It's a weak build", you're only ridiculing yourself in showing HOW FEW you actually know of GW)

Ya think that when I put it in italics, bold and underlined it I would get the point across.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cale Roughstar

Sure, I'll say it! Rspike is an extremely powereful build! It brings to the table almost unparalleled spiking power, along with solid attributes in all other categories.

Forgive me for trying to tell you how to beat the build. I will not write you a guide and tell you how to beat them on every map.

I try and tell you how the highly profficient guilds run r-spike, how they use 2 monks instead of three, only one ranger has more than one interrupt and how there is no rit using snares or vital weapon. I have done my best to spell out VM's and GIRL's build without posting actual skillbars. Nobody has savage, nobody has hexbreaker, nobody has vital weapon. Then you go and post the huge advantages wielded by the r3 scrubs who spiked you down last night.

I'll say it again! YES, RSPIKE IS POWERFUL! If you try and beat them in a slugging contest, spike for spike, kill for kill, you will lose. Playing against them in Fetid, Burial Mounds, Courtyard and King of The Hill HoH is not fun. They will do their best to kill you. To beat them on these maps you must be prepared for them. Isn't that the goal of a balance? To be prepared for anything that comes at them? If you are losing to these r3 Rspikers, you are obviously not prepared for them. How about you prepare yourself to fight them, rather than simply asking Izzy to swing the nerf bat?

I have said it before, and I will say it again, It is not that hard to counter!. Since you hate FC ele so much, bring a regular ele with Blurred. Bring things like Vocal Minority to shut down the paragons, use your interrupts on the Necro (or the rit). Be prepared. I can guaruntee that these baddie rspikers will not be able to beat back several directed countermeasures.

Monk Gsb · Sep 01, 2008, 03:19 AM // 03:19

borat im gonna tell u how to beat r-spike mkay
you can beat r-spike by:

infusing spikes,
pre proting any targets that are in range so that the spike is eaiser to infuse (i know its hard, sb 1 target, soa another, gardien another ohnoes),
putting gardien on ppl that u dont want to be interupted ( DA Diversion ect),
tell your mesmer to shut down there vital then shutting down the monks (divert vital, strip channeling, shame, pd ect)
making the spikes hit for less, hex them, any hex will do. but your better off with blured (im talking about the glass/forked spike),
not having a bad caller for ballenced (and having a good spike with defence helps).

and no dont say "your only saying this cuz u iz an r-spike fan boi" like u normaly do. i run with ecks from my guild, he uses 1 warrior (shock axe) 1 mb (with rogs), 1 bbot (with orb), 1 oos rit (with channeled strike, pwk, shadow, warding and brace yourself.), 1 mesmer pd with rend and shatter, 1 para (mh soc, emperthetic removal ( to keep himself and the warrior clean of blind, blured and snares ect.)) and 2 monks.

this does not include, DA, Blured, Necro hexes, FC snares.

and yet it still has SO much defence, and the only r-spike teams we coudent roll in under 3 mins were guild groups who sort of knew what they were doing but we would beat them anyways because there backline coudent hold out with out vital + channeling and spikes that force them to use energy.

if you dont want to use any of these defences and still QQ about r-spike rolling you then, well you deserve it.

Teh [prefession]-zorz · Sep 01, 2008, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Tbh i hate monking more against Ritspike, if my connection is off that day [yes roadrunner blows] i almost have no chance at protting vs that, however i have a better chance at protting against a rspike with the same connection.

Alexandria · Sep 01, 2008, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monk Gsb

borat im gonna tell u how to beat r-spike mkay
you can beat r-spike by:

infusing spikes,
pre proting any targets that are in range so that the spike is eaiser to infuse (i know its hard, sb 1 target, soa another, gardien another ohnoes),
putting gardien on ppl that u dont want to be interupted ( DA Diversion ect),
tell your mesmer to shut down there vital then shutting down the monks (divert vital, strip channeling, shame, pd ect)
making the spikes hit for less, hex them, any hex will do. but your better off with blured (im talking about the glass/forked spike),
not having a bad caller for ballenced (and having a good spike with defence helps).

and no dont say "your only saying this cuz u iz an r-spike fan boi" like u normaly do. i run with ecks from my guild, he uses 1 warrior (shock axe) 1 mb (with rogs), 1 bbot (with orb), 1 oos rit (with channeled strike, pwk, shadow, warding and brace yourself.), 1 mesmer pd with rend and shatter, 1 para (mh soc, emperthetic removal ( to keep himself and the warrior clean of blind, blured and snares ect.)) and 2 monks.

this does not include, DA, Blured, Necro hexes, FC snares.

and yet it still has SO much defence, and the only r-spike teams we coudent roll in under 3 mins were guild groups who sort of knew what they were doing but we would beat them anyways because there backline coudent hold out with out vital + channeling and spikes that force them to use energy.

if you dont want to use any of these defences and still QQ about r-spike rolling you then, well you deserve it.

How do you pre-infuse a spike that's insta-gib?

Arya Nibelrund · Sep 01, 2008, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Some good spikes are not infusable; all you can do is pre-prot target and hope you don't play a good rspike (3 human beings who can count to 3 at the same time) in a 3vs3 or a dark map such as fetid. Just don't listen to people who post in here, they're either rspikers or just don't know anything about the game (same thing, really).

bitchbar player · Sep 01, 2008, 02:47 PM // 14:47

wow, that is alot of hate for a moderator.

NoXiFy · Sep 01, 2008, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Ranger spikes overpowered.... hopefully Anet sees this thread over the next week or two when they do the update. RANGER ELITE UPDATES: Glass Arrows , now ends when suffering from a condition, PUNISHING SHOT (3/4 cast), Savage SHOT (3/4 CAST) Experts Dex (Ends if health drops below 75%).

IDK, this crap needs a nerf though. With almost 400 replies... yea.

blackknight1337 · Sep 01, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoXiFy

Ranger spikes overpowered.... hopefully Anet sees this thread over the next week or two when they do the update. RANGER ELITE UPDATES: Glass Arrows , now ends when suffering from a condition, PUNISHING SHOT (3/4 cast), Savage SHOT (3/4 CAST) Experts Dex (Ends if health drops below 75%).

IDK, this crap needs a nerf though. With almost 400 replies... yea.

You have no clue how to balance.

K Y O · Sep 01, 2008, 04:52 PM // 16:52

@nox - your nerf ideas on savage, punishing are terrible b/c they would absolutely kill the original intending use of the skill. Savage would be completely useless and outrage lots of rangers that use dshot+savage respectively in a non rspike situation

Just throwing a nerf idea out there:

Forked Arrow, Dual shot - has a .75sec after cast
(not sloth b/c i feel +dmg on sloth not equivalent to another arrow)

my reasoning: rspikes are deadly enough and can easily spike down a target without savage shot if spike if ontime and such. Having savage shot as a 1/4 sec followup makes this spike too strong. If you added in an after cast, you would give more lagtime to prot, infuse the spikes and thats really all you need imo considering if you play correctly vs rspike. I usually infuse the spikes when i play and thats what gives me the most trouble, which is the pure dmg output consecutively by forked,dual followed by savage.

Ate of DK · Sep 01, 2008, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoXiFy

IDK, this crap needs a nerf though. With almost 400 replies... yea.

400 replies made by 25 people? I see nothing but the same people who post here.

If the discussion gets hotter now [rawr] lost against a R-spike it's not right.
One of those who played that [DM] R-spike mentioned that they could never beat [rawr] with a balance build. [rawr] prefers 8vs8 and is not that well with splitting. They basically gave [rawr] what they like, an 8vs8 against a build that is superiour in 8vs8 knowing that [rawr] would play their standard build. [rawr] was slow and got into some DP and after that splitting didn't work out that well anymore for them. The R-spike played it very well. If any HA R-spike would have faced them then [rawr] would easily win. Sorry, but (VM] played R-spike this mAT, where did they end? It's not like they got the best of the best opponents... they lack GvG experience. [DM] took a chance, gambled a bit and won in the end.

shoogi · Sep 01, 2008, 05:39 PM // 17:39

noxify your ideas for nerf are weird and too complicated, the problem with ranger spike is the damage stacking from buffs and the nerf required is to cap the +damage you can get from buffs, the same way you can't get more than +25 armor from buffs. You also solve conjure+soh with that (a problem Izzy said he would adress several months ago... well..).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cale Roughstar

Sorry, it must have slipped my mind. I forgot that every build that beats rawr is imba.

Wrong, the correct sentence would be: "I forgot that every build that beats borat is imba".

skakid9090 · Sep 01, 2008, 06:16 PM // 18:16

If you kill fav and you're not bad you can just sidestep whenever you see a spike coming and you'll dodge a few arrows ;o

Monk Gsb · Sep 01, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexandria

How do you pre-infuse a spike that's insta-gib?

did i say pre infuse ? no i dident

but if your into pre-infuseing, you shut the spikedown, interupt glass arrows, blind the rangers, hit them with any hex's. as i said in my previous post.

(wep of shadow is pro btw, throw it on some 1 who is getting interupted, tell them to cancle cast and then cast it fully. ranger uses dshot on the cancled one now he's blind and you get the 2nd one off) and on alter cap perma wow on ghost wep of shadow on 7 or 8.

Cale Roughstar · Sep 01, 2008, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

Wrong, the correct sentence would be: "I forgot that every build that beats borat is imba".

And @ Noxify, 3/4 second interrupts? Wut?

Salia Mare · Sep 01, 2008, 09:52 PM // 21:52

It'd be quiet some months i stopped HA (and mostly play in fact) but:

I saw no update that change Rspike so that it become QQ so much, I mean such spike was often play by TV since 2007, and way before we had Pshot spikers.

Were all others PvX copy/past build nerfed leading so many people to rely on Rspike?

Then I can anderstand such "nerf kthxbye" tread which ever occur when something is too popular.

I should be dumb because back when I'd HA, each time a build was too often encounter, we changed our balance build to specificaly counter it.

Monk Gsb · Sep 01, 2008, 11:45 PM // 23:45

@ salia, yea r12's no longer have brains to do things like this. r-spike became popular due to the massive dmg that ppl started to see it had, (not just thinking it was TV and there play style that pwnt face).